Red Brotherhood

[jgascoine011]

Excellent as always. The link didn’t work for me either.

 

I of course bought some saws so I have those in spades. I’ll likely be able to build up some drills though so I can have at least one ten man with 4 drills.

 

Again, these blog posts are great for me as I slowly plan out my cult.

 

My real choice to make is either building for Pauper Princes or Twisted Helix!

I definitely think twisted helix is the better one.

It’s turns good units like genestealers into absolute blenders.

Also take the auto-wounding CC weapon for the higher T targets.

[Rogue]

Helix or Princes always seems to be interesting. Helix does boost certain units (and the always on move bonus is great), but +1 strength is situational. Against Guard, or AdMech, or Eldar, those genestealers get no advantage, and likewise Acolytes.

 

Whereas +1 to hit always benefits Acolytes, Metamorphs, Aberrants, even Neophytes if it comes to it. And Last Gasp looks like it could be really nasty on a charging unit - we kill stuff, and if the survivors kill us back, we kill more of them. Ouch.

 

I still prefer Helix overall, but I can see why you might choose Princes for a combat army.

[Rogue]

Not a blog, but vaguely related and not really worth a new thread - I played my first game with the new codex yesterday, and racked up a resounding victory over the Ultramarines, 97-15. Given that our last few games have been comprehensive victories for the marines, this was a huge turn-around (and relief).

 

For those that are interested, there's a brief recap below, and a few tactical thoughts.

 

Red Brotherhood (Twisted Helix), 1000pts

Patriarch - preternatural speed, elixir (5+ FNP), familiar [hypnosis, might, mutagenic, smite]

Jackal Alphus

10 Acolytes - 4 rock drills, icon, A Trap Sprung

5 Acolytes - hand flamers

5 Acolytes - hand flamers

10 Neophytes - 2 seismic cannons, 2 grenade launchers

10 Neophytes - 2 mining lasers, 2 grenade launchers

9 Genestealers - They Came From Below

9 Genestealers - Our Time is Nigh

[broodswarm, RND, Test Their Line (mission specific)]

 

Ultramarines

Gravis Captain - Sanctic Halo, Iron Resolve

Chaplain - Master of Something

5 Infiltrators (the can't deploy within 12" ones)

5 Infiltrators 

3 Aggressors - flamers

4 Aggressors - bolters

3 Suppressors - autocannons

3 Inceptors - bolter version

[Engage, RND, Thin Their Ranks]

 

In this mission, you had to control your home objective to get CPs. The mission secondary gave 5 points for two units wholly within the enemy deployment zone, and within 6" of two different board edges.

 

I put all three Acolyte broods underground. He put the suppressors and inceptors into reserve. Deployment was along the long edges, with four objectives - one in the middle of each deployment zone, and two on the cente-line (one on each flank). He had the bolter aggressors, captain and chaplain on the left, then Infiltrators (controling the objective), flamer aggressors and more Infiltrators . After revealing blips, I had both sets of neophytes on the left side (one controlling the objective), and both genestealers broods, the alphus and the patriarch on the right. 

 

I went first. 

 

Turn one. The They Came From Below stealers on the right flank moved up 9", and then another 9", putting them on the marine deployment line, inches from the Infiltrators . The other stealers moved up and used the 'Advance 6"' stratagem, leaving a 4" charge into the flame aggressors. The patriarch grabbed the objective in no-mans land, and the alphus dropped a crossfire marker on the aggressors, killing one as a bonus. The patriarch used Hypnosis to make the aggressors fight last, and I used the stratagem to remove their overwatch. Both sets of genestealers charged in, and both wiped out their targets. The marines has lost their left flank completely, and I'd not taken a casualty.

In response, the bolter aggressors moved forward onto the left flank objective (from my perspective), and fired back into the nearest genestealers. The Infiltrators followed suit, then charged the lone survivor, clearing their home objective.

 

Turn two. The genestealers and patriarch charge the Infiltrators , wipe them out, and consolidate into the shelter of ruins. One brood of neophytes remember to RND this turn; the others fire at the bolter aggressors and kill one of them (mostly with seismic cannons). One brood of five acolytes drop into the far right corner to test the line (along with the genestealers). The alphus replaces the patriarch on the right-hand objective - I currently control three.

The marine reserves arrive. Suppressors kill the alphus, inceptors kill eight neophytes on the objective, and the aggressors kill seven genestealers. Everyone tries to charge, everyone fails. I save the neophytes from failing morale (keeping them on the objective too), and the genestealers pass anyway.

 

Turn three. The intact neophytes reinforce the home objectve. The acolytes in the corner stay put and RND, and the last two genestealers and patriarch move behind obscuring ruins (with the stealers still within 6" of the baseline to score the secondary again). They are joined by the big acolyte brood, whilst the others appear out of sight of the suppressors, but just 8" away (they'll charge, kill one, and lose one in return). The neophytes get one hit on the inceptors with a krak grenade - it fails to wound, but gives crossfire. The rock drill acolytes use A Trap Sprung to charge the inceptors and captain, and a stratagem to make them fight last; the patriarch charges the bolter aggressors - he kills them, and the acolytes finish off the inceptors, but only put a single wound on the captain. He kills a couple in return.

The marines are reduced to two heroes and two suppressors. The suppressors back out of combat and claim the right hand objective, killing three acolytes with their guns. The captain moves away from the acolytes and uses a stratagem to charge the patriarch; the chaplain joins him. In combat, the captain takes the patriarch down to two wounds. The patriarch uses his preternatural speed to fight the chaplain, taking him to just one wound, before the chaplain fails to wound the patriarch (thanks, 4+ invulnerable save).

 

Turn four. The lone acolyte moves up and uses objective secured to reclaim the right-hand objective from the suppressors. The others stay put again. An attempt to kill the chaplain with smite is denied. The big brood get one back via the icon, and charge the captain. The last two stealers charge the chaplain (giving up test their lines, but hopefully meaning I don't have to split the patriarch's attacks). They kill him. The patriarch bounces off the captain (I don't like the sanctic halo), but the rock drills land six mortals and he falls. The marines concede, and we work out a final score of 97-15.

 

 

Turn one was devastating. I had two undamaged broods of genestealers able to make 3" and 4" charges, switch off overwatch on the flamer unit, drop fight last on the Infiltrator unit, and then just roll dice until everything was dead - 240 points gone, flank collapsed, three quarters of the board under my control, and the marine home objective under serious threat. They Came from Below is brilliant, especially on Helix genestealers. In this game, the 18" move covered the whole of no-man's land, and that was before using advance.

 

The patriarch was fun too. Having two casts makes him much more useful, and the combination of a 4++ invulnerable and 5+ FNP allowed him to survive the combined attacks of the captain and chaplain (using only a single (albeit critical) re-roll on the 4++). he still bounced off the 3++ halo, though. Grr.

 

What didn't bounce was the rock drills. Well, they fluffed it a bit first time up, when only two went in on the captain whilst the others were mangling inceptors. But in the second round, with all four active and Might up as well (for 12 attacks), they rolled three 6s for 6 mortal wounds, and that was that. The drills generally did what I expected them too, and the A Trap Sprung charge bonus made me pretty confident about bringing them in and making it count.

 

I also had a lot of CPs in this one. In part, it's because I don't yet know all the good stratagems (and a bit because things were going well with my dice). But it was also because I didn't feel the need to spend pre-game on Brood Coven or Cult's Psyche or an extra relic. Buffing key units with points through proficient planning meant that those units would do what I wanted, no matter if the right support characters were nearby or not. Even the patriarch's psychic buffs felt like bonuses, not essentials. if I really wanted to get a fight last off, or remove overwatch, I was doing it via crossfire, not worrying about making psychic tests.

 

Speaking of which, I completely failed to make use of crossfire from a shooting perspective - the neophytes were rubbish, and killed one marine between them all game (having cost me 200 for the 20 of them). But the alphus was key in turn one, allowing me to switch off a lot of flamer overwatch, and the neophytes did at least get occasional hits to drop crossfire markers where I needed them.

 

Broodsurge was an interesting secondary. I outnumbered the marines heavily - 25 to 60 - and once I'd taken out eight of them in turn one, I was able to go pretty much wherever I wanted and still outnumber whatever the marines had left in all three areas of the board. It feels like one of those objectives where I'm either picking up 2 or 4 points every turn for doing stuff I want to do, or I'm losing badly anyway.

 

If I was doing this one again, I think I'd drop the neophytes, and use the flamer acolytes in their place - rush up, flame a target for crossfire, hope they die in combat before they get to kill the acolytes. With the saved points, I'd get a couple more barebones acolyte broods for secondary grabbing (now the hand flamers are busy elsewhere), and add in a Nexos for when I really need a crossfire marker somewhere specific. Or, alternatively, keep the neophytes but rearm them with shotguns and flamers, and use them as more mobile firepower. The saved points still get me a nexos. I can get crossfire from the alphus, nexos, and a fair chance of landing five hits from eight shotguns and two flamers, plus the flamer acolytes in a pinch, so I can still set-up uneven match-ups in combat. And drop the icon for two more stealers (as soon as I get them painted). 

Edited February 9, 2022 by Rogue

[Rogue]

Me again. I've just finished and posted a bit about Neophytes. It's definitely not as clear cut as the Acolytes version (which broadly boiled down to 'Which is the best weapon for hitting people with?'). Here, the options are more varied, and fulfill different roles. But hopefully it's still useful.

 

If you're interested, it's here: https://redbrotherhood.wixsite.com/cult/post/troops-neophytes

[Rogue]

With troops done, it's time to take a look at some of our elite options. In particular, our elite broods - genestealers, metamorphs and aberrants. How can we make the most of their limited options, and how do they stack up against each other?

 

You can find this one here: https://redbrotherhood.wixsite.com/cult/post/elites-genestealers-metamorphs-aberrants

 

Whilst I can run the numbers and theorise about tactics and stratagems, I don't yet have much battlefield experience of the new codex. So if you do, and are finding combinations or uses that I've overlooked (more than likely), feel free to share them with the rest of us 

[brother_b]

Love these thanks for continuing them.

[Rogue]

No worries. I'm glad you're enjoying them.

[Rogue]

Okay. The Abominant. I've probably gone over the top with this one, but I've ended up with three blogs, covering his combat role, his buffing role, and how useful the Mindwyrm Familiar reroll is (really very, it turns out).

 

You can find the blogs in the usual place, here:

Part one: https://redbrotherhood.wixsite.com/cult/post/elites-abominant-part-one

Part two: https://redbrotherhood.wixsite.com/cult/post/elites-abominant-part-two

Part three: https://redbrotherhood.wixsite.com/cult/post/elites-abominant-part-three

 

I really want to like the Abominant. I do like the Abominant, I just wish he was a bit better. In combat, he's either massively over-killing infantry, or maybe damaging tanks, or risking bouncing off invulnerable saves. His sweet-spot is support characters, but that's not really a wide enough target to justify a 95-point model.

 

As a buffing piece, he's better, and I can see a good argument for including him alongside aberrants if you're running a big block or two, or if you're sticking five of them in a Goliath Rockgrinder (with that spare sixth seat for the Abominant). On balance, I think he's a buffing piece that can fight a bit, rather than the other way round.

 

Anyway. Feel free to browse and let me know what you think. I'm a bit on the fence, overall, so if you've got any practical battle experience to share, that would be great too.   

[Ulfast]

I love your blog. Anything new coming up soon?

[Rogue]

Thanks, Ulfast - nice of you to ask. I've got a couple up my sleeve, but need to get photos of the models. With any luck (and because I'm stuck at home with covid right now), they might be up before the end of the month...

[Rogue]

Turns out flattery will get you everywhere. I've just uploaded a piece on the Kelermorph:

 

https://redbrotherhood.wixsite.com/cult/post/elites-kelermorph

 

Having used him recently against Ultramarines, I think he performed pretty much exactly as the numbers suggest - really useful for putting down a crossfire marker and then getting out of Dodge (or out of line-of-sight, at least), but less useful when i wanted him to kill things (which resulted in him getting very melta'd in the middle of the game). I went with the autostubs version (too many other toys to play with elsewhere, relic-wise), and didn't use him brilliantly, I think. But he's definitely a finesse piece rather than a destructive bomb to drop in and just remove something.

[Ulfast]

Lol, thanks! That was fast. and I think your observation on him is totally correct. I have tried to have him kill stuff and it wont happend. He kill a model or two and thats it. Much better to throw in 5 acolytes with handflamers. But he can put a threat on character and make a unit to get a crossfire marker which is good. Best way to use him.

[Rogue]

Yeah. I like the Kelermorph, but he's not great at doing his thing. Unless you think of his thing as appearing alongside a shooty brood of neophytes, unloading his pistols into a nearby squad to activate crossfire and the Heroic Deeds aura, nipping off into the shadows and letting the neophytes do the real work (in as much as neophytes with guns do work, I guess).

 

On a more positive note - the Sanctus. This guy I do like, especially with the Dagger of Swift Sacrifice. Does he have the potential to be an absolute character blender? There's only one way to find out: https://redbrotherhood.wixsite.com/cult/post/elites-sanctus

 

(But honestly, the answer is yes. Yes he does.)

[Ulfast]

Thanks for another great article. I bought the sniper version (or rather glued) and only used that but after your articel I will for sure get another one with a dagger. Seems very dangerous indeed. Nice catch also that you canc ause perils with the dagger too. I always thought it was the sniper.

[Rogue]

No worries - I'm glad you're enjoying them. And thanks again for the encouragement :)

[sitnam]

I'm mostly on the hobby side of Warhammer, with a smidge of Kill Team, but I enjoy reading strategy guides for 40k, and I quite enjoy the almost obsessive level of math done here. Really interested to check out future articles.

 

How would you rate Brood Brother detachments, if even for just friendly games? It's a shame those units were removed directly from the codex, it was one of the more colorful things of GSC

[Rogue]

Can I have that quite for the blog? 'Almost obsessive level of math' feels like a fair summary :)

 

I'm a bit ambivalent on Brood Brothers, and don't really know enough about that state of the Guard codex to make any sensible assessments. That said, getting all the upgrades for free (post data-slate) could be a different angle on backfield objective sitters. And you can't really go wrong with a couple of Russ tanks.

 

I have pondered dropping them into a 2000-point list, but the 500-point cap makes it difficult to squeeze in two tanks and enough to round out a detachment (assuming my battlescribe is up to date, and given the limited Guard units I have).

[sitnam]

Feel free, it's very blog relevant lol.

 

It does seem that the 25% limit is fairly limiting. You can't even fully kit out a baneblade with that limit, for what that matters

[Rogue]

And done :)

 

I find the problem with the 25% limit is that it doesn't let me take the Guard stuff that would be worth taking. I mean, sure, I can fit in lots of Brood Brother infantry, but I already have options for that in my base codex. What I want is tanks and big guns (the kind that kill things at range, not lasguns or autopistols). But 500 points doesn't give us enough space to really do that - two tanks at best, and only if we skimp on those guns, which rather defeats the point. And in 1000 point games, which I play most often, 250 points of Guard isn't doing much at all.

 

I preferred the old system, where i could have a detachment of Kraken genestealers, another of Russ tanks, and a third of Cultists. It was fun to play with, gave me loads of options, and allowed me to put down 2000 points while I was still building up my GSC collection. Probably a bit too exploitable (especially when it generated something like 18 command points whilst allowing first turn charges, deep striking and heavy fire-power), but ideal for friendly games. Still, I like the new codex too, so it's not all bad.

[Ulfast]

After your last articel I have gone out to buy a second sanctus with a blade (allready got one with sniper rifle). Shall be very fun to try out. Wonder what fun he can do (or a she actually, as I have converted it a bit).  

[Rogue]

It'd be nice to see that, Ulfast, and to find out how you get on.

I've added a new post to the blog. This one's nominally about the Biophagus, but is more about one of the ways we can assess different buffs against each other - do I want +1 to hit or +1 AP; and how do I know which is going to generate more damage? That sort of thing.

You can find it here: https://redbrotherhood.wixsite.com/cult/post/elites-biophagus

[brother_b]

There’s not much that has a 2+ save without an invulnerable save. Maybe leman Russ tanks or sanguinary guard?

Absent facing marine armies should we always go with exploding 6s?

Great articles as always.

[Ulfast]

I really liked your article again. would be intersting to see your take on an patriarch with the WL trait (from twisted helix)that let him use two of the biohagus abilties and which to chose.

 

I can report also that my sanctus took down a carnifex in close combat :)

[Rogue]

Well, that is a result, Ulfast. I hope the death of the carnifex was a step on your road to victory.

I've been playing a few games of Tempest of War recently. My first three were all against Ultramarines, and I lost all of them (one was close, the others were fairly one-sided). But yesterday, I got to test my mettle against the Necrons (I'm sorry). It was a 1000 point game. 

Necrons - I think they were Novokh

• Technomancer and cryptek
• 2 x 5 scarabs
• 2 x 5 immortals
• 3 spyders
• 5 destroyers (one with a very big gun)
• 2 crypto-thralls
• hexmark destroyer

Red Brotherhood - Twisted Helix

• Patriarch (Preternatural Speed, Hypnosis, Might, Mutagenic, Smite)
• Magus (Crouchling, Hypnosis, Might, Mutagenic, Smite)
• Nexos (Cranial Inlay)
• 10 Neophytes, shotguns
• 10 Acolytes, 4 mining drills (underground)
• 2 x 5 Acolytes (underground)
• 10 Genestealers, They Came From Below
• 10 Genestealers, Our Time is Nigh (in the truck)
• Goliath Truck, charges

We had corner deployments, with a ruin in each quarter and a pile of containers in the middle - objectives in our 'home' ruins, one in the other ruins at his end, one on the pile of containers. The mission was 3VP for holding home, 4VP for no-man's land, 5VP for opponent's home, 1-3VP for killing units. And the twist was that we only got CPs if the warlord was alive and deployed (as it happened, both survived the whole game). I went first.

He deployed both scarab units as a screen, with the hinge potected by a ruin and one unit of immortals. My TCFB genestealers went into all three units, while the neophytes took control of the central objective and the truck (with the OTIN stealers inside) and the patriarch moved into cover on the right of the containers. The genestealers killed several bases from both scarab units, and then wrapped up the immortals. Sadly, return attacks and morale saw them reduced to a single model, who died shortly after. In his turn, the cryptek and other immortals used the Veil to jump into my backfield to score secondaries, but their firepower took just a single wound off the magus. [5-11]

In turn two, the second unit of genestealers disembark, move up and prepare to fight the scarabs for the neutral objective in the ruin. The truck moves up to support. Wary of the hexmark, my reserves stayed off the table. In the back field, the patriarch and magus combine to smite the immortals off the table (I didn't fail a single smite all game, and rolled a horrendous number of 3s, no 1s, and a 5 on my lone super-smite). The patriarch charged and killed the cryptek; the genestealers wiped out the scarabs, then returned to the shadows, leaving the truck in control of the objective. In return, the destroyers and spyders moved up - the destroyers had a shocker and failed to kill the truck, and the spyders killed 6 neophytes. The second scarab units and the surviving immortals retake the ruins. [30-19]

At the top of turn three, I have three characters, 4 neophytes and a truck on the table, but four undamaged units in reserve. The magus and patriarch move to the middle, and 5 acolytes drop in to cover them. My stealers return, ready to charge the scarabs and immortals (but will fluff the charge and do nothing). The other small acolyte unit successfully baits out the hexmark (and all die) as he moves in to protect the spyders. But this leaves the way clear for the large acolyte brood to drop-in near the destroyers. They charge and drill them to death. The thralls and a spyder wipe all ten out with return fire before the spyders charge into the neophytes and the patriarch one kills the neophytes, but the other two bounce of the warlord (who makes all the 4++ saves). in return, he kills the nearest spyder, taking him out of engagement range. The hexmark fights the Nexos (he can't get line-of-sight to shoot, but is near enough to charge), but fails to wound him. This contests my home objective. [43-34]

Turn four - the patriarch back-pedals again, and super-smites the hexmark off the table; the magus smites the last immortals. The genestealers sweep across the table into the spyders, are joined by the patriarch, and kill them both. The necrons are down to the crypto-thrall twins, a scarab base and a technomancer. The thralls finally kill the goliath, which detonates and kills them back. The scarab scuttles to the containers and grabs the obejctive. [55-45]

In the final turn, the patriarch mops up the scarab base, and it's all over, with just the technomancer left in the far corner holding his home objective. Final score - 70-48 to the Brotherhood.

 

I finished the game with a surprising number of models still alive - all three characters and full unit of genestealers. That's around 13 more models than I'd usually have. Luck was definitely a factor here: my smites ran hot, and every important psychic power went off; I only failed one charge (and that with a unit that took no fire as a consequence, so it was annoying but not critical); and the secondaries went my way - I maxed them out in turn 5. 

For the first time in a Tempest game, I felt I found the balance between scoring points and killing the enemy (although 25 primary points suggests I still have room to improve). I also did much better at keeping things alive. I was able to launch attacks in turn one (10 genestealers into the skirmish line), turn two (ten more genestealers into the scarabs on an objective), turn three (the rock-drill acolytes, and potentially the genestealers again, dice permitting), and more fortunately, turn four (those genestealers who were stranded the previous turn). I didn't need the reserves to rush in turn two, and was able to be aggressive with them in turn three rather than scrambling to hold things together.

Being more aggressive with the magus was helpful too. I've tended to leave him glued to the home objective 9and often out of sight) to avoid him getting shot to pieces. But pushing him forward made his powers more usable, and he benefited from 'look out, sir' while there were still necron units that could have gone after him.  

 

[Rogue]

It's been a productive weekend - I've just posted a new blog. Following on from Ulfast's question about the Patriarch, I've looked at the various relic and trait combinations that affect his combat potential. 

One of the really interesting things to come out of it is that Biomorph Adaptation and Preternatural Speed are functionally identical in terms of output (over a long enough period of time).

Also, Hivecult might be our shootiest option, but Vockor's Talisman delivers some serious combat punch into anything with an invulnerable save.

If you're interested, you can find it all here: https://redbrotherhood.wixsite.com/cult/post/hq-patriarch

Obviously, this is all theoretical. If anyone fancies sharing how they equip their Patriarch in real life, that would be very helpful (for me, at least, because then I can pinch everyone else's good ideas...)