New Black Templar "combos"....

[L30n1d4s]

Still digesting the new BT Codex (which overall is great... well done, GW!), but already several "combos" jump out to me:

 

 

1- "Anvil" Primaris Chaplain on Bike -- Give a Primaris Bike Chaplain the new relic that reduces all Damage to Dmg1, plus the Reclusiarch upgrade and "Wise Orator," plus the Litanies for 5+++ FNP and making a unit invulnerable to any enemy Psychic abilities. In the Command Phase, power him up with the two Litanies, then advance him up the board a full 20". When the enemy tries to shoot at him, use the Strat for -1 to Hit and, if necessary, Transhuman Physiology... even against BS3+ Dark Lances, they will only be hitting on 4+s, wounding on 4+s, failing Invuls on 1-3, doing 1 damage each,  and then there is still a 5+++ FNP save to try and save that damage. Since the Primaris Biker Chaplain has 7W naturally, this means that it would take an average of 84 x BS3+ Dark Lance (or Cognis Lascanoon, Multi-meta, etc.) shots to kill him! Additionally, he is immune to all Psychic powers (where most MWs come from) and even has the BT 5+++ against MWs from non-Psychic sources, so he can "tank" a whole bunch of your opponent's firepower for the rest of the army (or, if he is ignored, get close in and tie up critical enemy shooting units until your Black Tide can get across the table safely). Finally, he can use the "tenacious Assault" Strat to lock enemy units in combat with him on a 4+ and also the new BT Strat to force characters to direct all their attacks against him, thereby absorbing/neutralizing even more of the enemy's combat power.

 

 

2- "Hero" Vanguard Veteran Sergeant -- Give a Vanguard Veteran Sergeant a Power Fist and Storm Shield (also take four cheap VVs with dual Chainswords), plus the upgrade for +1A/+1W/+1WS, then take the BT specific upgrade to make the Power Fist S:x2 AP-3 Dmg3 (no minus to hit) and, finally, use the Master-Crafted Relic to make his PF Dmg4... Finally, cast the Litanies on his squad for +1A and re-rolls to hit. On the charge, the Vanguard Vet Sergeant then has 6 x WS2+ S8 AP-4 (if you have the Vow for Assault Doctrine always on) and Dmg4, all with re-rolls to hit... so, basically, he is a miniature "Smash Captain" with a 2+/4++ and a squad of 8 ablative wounds (who put out 24 x S4 AP-2 Dmg1 attacks of their own, to deal with chaff) that can fly around the table or deep strike in with his Jump Pack and wreak havoc (Oh, and you can give the whole unit ObSec for a turn when it needs it, via one of the new BT Strats)

 

 

3 - Assault Centurions with Flamers -- As an alternative to the Vanguard Veteran Sergeant option above, upgrade the Centurion Sgt to 5W/5A base  and WS2+....then also give him the upgrade for -1 Dmg and Master-Craft his Siege Drills for Dmg4... this means that he has 6 x WS2+ S10 AP-4 Dmg4 attacks on the charge, plus whatever his squad-mates can do. Additionally, the entire squad can use the new BT Strat (only 1 CP for them) to get max hits with their Flamers on squads of 11+, so perfect for taking down those 20 man AdMech Vanguard/Ranger blobs (especially when you also add in the 36 Hurricane Bolter shots as well). Finally, the Centurions already have a 2+ save and, with the right Vow, they get a 5++ Invul and "Transhuman Lite" (i.e. ignore 1-2s to wound), and the 5W Sergeant can tank heavy damage with his -1 Dmg, meaning that Dmg D6 weapons have a difficult time killing them (especially with a nearby Apothecary for 6+++ FNP, healing, and model revival). In terms of delivery, the whole unit of 3 Centurions is Power Level 9, so you can relatively affordably Outflank them or, if you want to go whole hog, put them in a Land Raider Crusader (which can can a have a 5++ Invul for free with Vows) and use the new BT Strat to be able to disembark the Centurions and allow them to still charge, but not move, after the LR Crusader moved. 

 

 

Overall, I am excited about the competitive Black Templar possibilities that this new Codex brings. What about the other Marshals in the forum here... any combos jumping out to you already?

Edited October 9, 2021 by L30n1d4s

[Sir Clausel]

I noticed you can make a marschal with a lot of atks on the charge:

 

2 warlord traits: Imperiums sword and Master of arms + the relic: Aquila Immortalis for 9 atk str 6 d2 on the charge that hits on 2+(also you are T5)

 

Or

 

2 warlord traits: Imperiums sword and Master of arms + the relic: Sword of Judgement for 8 atk str 8 d3 on the charge that hits on 2+

[L30n1d4s]

There are many great combos, the more we go through the Book, the more we'll see, I think.

 

 

Another that jumped out to me is as follows:

 

 

-Assault Intercessor Sergeant -- Equip him like the Vanguard Veteran Sergeant in the original post and then cast the +1A and re-rolls to Hits in melee Litanies on his squad, giving him 6 x S8 AP-3 Dmg4 attacks on the charge. With "Honor the Chapter" for fighting twice and the Assault Doctrine on, that translates into 12 x S8 AP-4 Dmg4 attacks, all at WS2+ and full re-rolls to Hit. 

 

For a frame of reference, even without fighting twice, this Intercessor Sergeant is hitting just like Draigo from the GK Codex, except with -1 attack... if you do spend the CP to fight twice, then he is actually getting +5 attacks over Draigo, all with the same profile as the fully buffed up Titansword!

Edited October 9, 2021 by L30n1d4s

[Tokugawa]

The dmg=1 relic is disgusting. Give that guy rites of war, and you got an fast obsec which is very difficult to remove.

[Medjugorje]

I like the idea of a big squad with 5++ 5+++ which has a Sword Brother Relic Bearer who hits on 2s with 6 attacks and 3 dmg and is still core.

 

Then I like the ATV which has -1 dmg

 

Then I like 3 Redemptors which have fnp and 5++

 

Then I like the Character which says to each FU to Belakor 

[BitsHammer]

I had some thoughts while I spent time on that novella I call a forum post about Templars so I'll quote some combos I noticed from that:

 

Canticle of Hate: <Chapter> Core or Character unit within 6" of the Priest gets +2" to charge, and an additional 3" when piling in. Pair with Devout Push to allow you to move up to 12" by piling in 6" twice. The other big reason to take the codex litanies since it makes charges easier, allows us to really push into the enemy lines, or completely encircle the enemy unit with a large Crusader squad.

 

Fires of Devotion: Black Templars core or character unit within 6" of the Priest adds 1 to the attacks characteristics of models in the unit. Want to do 60 Chainsword attacks with 10 Sword Brethren? How about double piling in a Primaris Crusader Squad and doing 100 attacks? Chainsword go brrrrrr indeed. Pair with Gene-wrought might if you need to get past high toughness values and watch things melt under the bucket of dice they'll need to roll for saves.

 

Skull of the Cacodominus + Reliquary of Gathalamor + Light of the Emperor's Grace = -3 for psychic tests for psykers in 12" (who also perils on all doubles and take d3 mortal wounds on a 4+ when they fail to cast) and it can go to a -4 for one turn.

Edited October 10, 2021 by Fulkes

[Kilamandaros]

How viable do we think a black tide list could be? The 5++/5+++ combo will add some excellent survivability and can use Grimaldus's buff and some of the stratagems to propel across the board pretty quickly. Big 20 man Crusader squads surging forward to control the board with some Terminators/Bladeguards to add some punch.

[T14]

I certainly intend to build black tide lists primarily. Meta be damned!

[BitsHammer]

How viable do we think a black tide list could be? The 5++/5+++ combo will add some excellent survivability and can use Grimaldus's buff and some of the stratagems to propel across the board pretty quickly. Big 20 man Crusader squads surging forward to control the board with some Terminators/Bladeguards to add some punch.

I'd say add in an Ancient with the Standard of the Emperor Ascendant too. +1 leadership to Black Templars Core units in 9, and a free re-roll for the morale test to make us harder to morale models away. Plus it gives us a 4+ fight on death in 9" as well.

[tvih]

Ah man. I looove my jump chaplain, but out of these high-mobility options the Primaris Bike does quite overperform by comparison these days given the 3 additional wounds. Especially when you consider than D1 relic! I'm not even looking to build any sort of hyper-competitive list, but given how killy so many things are these days, a 4-wound character dies from a sneeze. And of course it's ridiculous that the biker only costs +10p compared to a jump chaplain - considering you get +3W, +1A, +1T and twin bolt rifle + Absolver instead of just a bolt pistol. Balancing, ahoy? Sure, jump chaplain has additional weapon options, but those come with their own points cost. Sigh. Sounds like I need to buy yet another chaplain* at some point, and my two favorites (jump & terminator) will be further gathering dust for the most part. But I hate basically just hiding with my "heroes" due to fragility, like I pretty much had to do with my Sisters in a small tournament yesterday.

 

Of the other options, since I like them jump units the VV "hero" has some appeal, and I really do need to use jump VV again (footslogging is such a chore). Personally I'd give the "ablative" models a storm shield or two too, though. And knowing myself I'd probably just end up making it a squad of 10 with additional upgrades. Hah.

 

*(currently I have at least: terminator, jump pack, Indomitus, Dark Vengeance, two old generic metal ones, old Grimaldus)

Edited October 13, 2021 by tvih

[templargdt]

How viable do we think a black tide list could be? The 5++/5+++ combo will add some excellent survivability and can use Grimaldus's buff and some of the stratagems to propel across the board pretty quickly. Big 20 man Crusader squads surging forward to control the board with some Terminators/Bladeguards to add some punch.

Black Tide at first blush at least seems worth of consideration.  20 Man crusader squad with a 5++ and then a FNP from either a litany or Apothecary seems pretty robust.

[BitsHammer]

 

How viable do we think a black tide list could be? The 5++/5+++ combo will add some excellent survivability and can use Grimaldus's buff and some of the stratagems to propel across the board pretty quickly. Big 20 man Crusader squads surging forward to control the board with some Terminators/Bladeguards to add some punch.

Black Tide at first blush at least seems worth of consideration.  20 Man crusader squad with a 5++ and then a FNP from either a litany or Apothecary seems pretty robust.

 

A bit over a thousand points gets use 3x20 barebones Primaris Crusader squads, which doesn't sound like much until you remember that's 120 wounds of just troops.

[Palmu]

At first glance, some real overload lists look perfectly possible with how many different wound mitigation tactics we can fit into a single list. You can have a Black Tide running it down the middle with ++5/++6 Grimmy assistance, Tannhauser Chaplain riding it down to meme on fighty characters, a sufficiently tanky sergeant with Crux Obsidian, and another with Feast+Heinmann. 

 

There's been some points about BGV's or Cents tanking it up hard, but personally I'm considering the value of small units of Outriders for the purpose of gumming down the enemy line with tanky dudes that require pretty high firepower to actually stop them reaching the lines. 

[BitsHammer]

At first glance, some real overload lists look perfectly possible with how many different wound mitigation tactics we can fit into a single list. You can have a Black Tide running it down the middle with ++5/++6 Grimmy assistance, Tannhauser Chaplain riding it down to meme on fighty characters, a sufficiently tanky sergeant with Crux Obsidian, and another with Feast+Heinmann. 

 

There's been some points about BGV's or Cents tanking it up hard, but personally I'm considering the value of small units of Outriders for the purpose of gumming down the enemy line with tanky dudes that require pretty high firepower to actually stop them reaching the lines. 

Outriders can take two relics (one costs points) and be roving 12" bubble of -2 to cast psychic powers that can go to a -3, so they can have a lot of utility.

[SirJyo]

The anvil build seems great if you can convince your opponent it's a huge threat.

Heal it with an apothecary and frustrate your opponent.

[tvih]

 

Outriders can take two relics (one costs points) and be roving 12" bubble of -2 to cast psychic powers that can go to a -3, so they can have a lot of utility.

 

Interesting. I've been meaning to assemble my 6 Outriders, and if I'm getting the Bike Chaplain that's all the more reason... but ruining witches' days definitely is an extra incentive. (Though on a side note, too bad there's still no weapon options even for the squad leader of Outriders.)

Edited October 11, 2021 by tvih

[BitsHammer]

 

 

 

Outriders can take two relics (one costs points) and be roving 12" bubble of -2 to cast psychic powers that can go to a -3, so they can have a lot of utility.

 

Interesting. I've been meaning to assemble my 6 Outriders, and if I'm getting the Bike Chaplain that's all the more reason... but ruining witches' days definitely is an extra incentive. (Though on a side note, too bad there's still no weapon options even for the squad leader of Outriders.)

If you take a relic from C:SM on a Chaplain riding with them you can have a 12" of -3 that causes d3 mortals on failed casts and always perils on doubles, and can go to a -4 bubble for one turn.

 

I won't claim it's competetive but if you want to make psyker heavy metas cry, it can be done.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Seems too situational.

[Charlo]

Grey Knights and 1KSons add popular....

[BitsHammer]

Seems too situational.

It is, but it's worth knowing about if psyker heavy armies become popular. I mean rumors point to a Nid update on the horizon.

[Tokugawa]

Outrider is so poor designed. DA could give it 4++/5++ AND obsec with no real extra cost, but they still not prefer by DA lists. I think we needn't walk the same path twice which DA players tested.

[BitsHammer]

Outrider is so poor designed. DA could give it 4++/5++ AND obsec with no real extra cost, but they still not prefer by DA lists. I think we needn't walk the same path twice which DA players tested.

Oh I'm definitely not trying to make them a "thing", but if you're planning on using them anyways it's nice to know what kind of options you have in your back pocket.

[Medjugorje]

Captain in Gravis armor and WL Iron Resolve W8 T5.  With Damage reducing to 1 via Tannhausers Relic - do we can take the Stratagem which gives him +1 to saving throws against dmg1 attacks? 

[Tokugawa]

Captain in Gravis armor and WL Iron Resolve W8 T5. With Damage reducing to 1 via Tannhausers Relic - do we can take the Stratagem which gives him +1 to saving throws against dmg1 attacks?

Of course you can. But who want to bring him over Helbrecht? No one need double captains, too.

[L30n1d4s]

So, another combo that jumps out to me, if your opponent has any Psykers:

 

Grimadldus, 9 Scout Bikers -- Biker Sergeant with Power Sword (upgraded to Sword of Judgement for S7 AP-3 Dmg3), Strat to give Sergeant +1A/+1W/+1WS, and purchasable Relic to allow the squad to re-roll all to Hits/to Wounds against a selected target.

 

Grimadus casts +1 attack Litany and add an additional Vow Litany on the Scout Bikers (they have Uphold the Honor of the Emperor for a 5++ already, add Abhor the Witch with the Litany).

 

The Scout Bikers then move upfield 19" (16" base +3" for Abhor the Witch), putting them 5" from the enemy DZ. The entire unit can then unload 36 Bolter Shots, plus 18 Astartes Shotgun shots (which can go to Dmg2 with the Strat, if you need to) and then go for the 5" re-rollable charge, which should be very likely to make. Once in combat, they hit with 32 x S4 AP- attacks and 5 x S7 AP-3 Dmg3 attacks, all with full re-rolls to hit and to wound against their designated target.

 

Anything they don't kill on the charge they then use their T5, 5++ Invul, and "Transhuman Lite" to absorb return attacks and then try to lock in combat with the BT Strat. This should buy some time for the rest of the army (including Helbrecht and Grimaldus) to get into mid-field, grab Objectives, and set up turn 2-3 assaults. 

Edited October 12, 2021 by L30n1d4s