my honest opinion

[Medjugorje]

I am that disappointed with the new codex. The rules are very thematic but on the table doesnt have that impact I wanted for them.

 

Everything which used to be nice to play with BT is gone. There is no new mechanic which seems for me that gives me fun in the game. 

Powerlevel? I think BT are not "unplayable" There will be some combos and maybe there will be some lists which will perform in tournaments. Its not that I think they cant being competitive. But i want an army which is cool because of the way i use the abilites they have... it seems the units only will work because you put fnp on evvery unit and having 5++ and hoping for not getting destroyed before scoring which is so boring.

 

But all the way I loved the way in 9th edition used to be work with special movement abilities and all I hoped for (not matter if they would change them a bit) was that we get more punch in close combat. But except a few things we totally miss the abilites to make a single squad killy without any character buffs. Lost so much movment abilities without andvance +charge. 

All the Vows which should give us something what makes our units good in combat are situational and most times they dont have that impact what Blood Angles get or Space wolves or White Scars which annoys me so much. 

 

WL Traits are so weak - even the only one which used to be petentially strong is weaker then before. Our Characters are great but so expensive and without them there is not output for this book.

[Tokugawa]

You can always have a option to play your models as White Scars, as RG successors, as IH or whatever tournament wysiwyg.

[Medjugorje]

I dont have fun to play those chapters anyway. I have so much armies ( my secound biggest army are Drukhari which i started similar to BT in 3rd edition  --> so competitive play is not the big problem. )  My biggest concern is that I dont like the rules in terms of how I see and want to play my BT. I dont like the way the rules are made even (or especially) for Fungames which always used to be thing for me although my main army wasnt competitve.

[Kastor Krieg]

I am that disappointed with the new codex. The rules are very thematic but on the table doesnt have that impact I wanted for them.

 

Everything which used to be nice to play with BT is gone. There is no new mechanic which seems for me that gives me fun in the game. 

Powerlevel? I think BT are not "unplayable" There will be some combos and maybe there will be some lists which will perform in tournaments. Its not that I think they cant being competitive. But i want an army which is cool because of the way i use the abilites they have... it seems the units only will work because you put fnp on evvery unit and having 5++ and hoping for not getting destroyed before scoring which is so boring.

 

But all the way I loved the way in 9th edition used to be work with special movement abilities and all I hoped for (not matter if they would change them a bit) was that we get more punch in close combat. But except a few things we totally miss the abilites to make a single squad killy without any character buffs. Lost so much movment abilities without andvance +charge. 

All the Vows which should give us something what makes our units good in combat are situational and most times they dont have that impact what Blood Angles get or Space wolves or White Scars which annoys me so much. 

 

WL Traits are so weak - even the only one which used to be petentially strong is weaker then before. Our Characters are great but so expensive and without them there is not output for this book.

What "used to be fun playing BT" thing is gone? Black Tide? Good as ever. Mechanized? Damn, 5++. Killy EC to murder enemy HQ? Check. Helbrecht and Grim being powerhouses and buffs? Yep. Biker Templars? Outta the wazoo.

 

All of this sounds like "the last edition, not-as-intended-but-as-written dumb OP reading of a rule has been cleared up and now we don't have that broken flavour-of-the-quarter thing anymore".

 

Sheesh.

[Medjugorje]

no. overwhelming BT with advance and charge made my playstyle that fun when all squads used to running towards the big brawl in the center of the board. 

 

and in 5th edition all units used to work independent when they were able to reroll all hitrolls. 

Now you have a character nearby for rerolls and other buffs that they get their job done. I ´ve hoped for a mechanic which gives us the option to run squads independend but characters now are needed even more and they are so damn enourmes expensive. 

I hoped for good new WL Traits and they are really boring.

 

I hoped for a smashing Emperors champion who is worth the points even when he does not giving any bonuses - but is as fearsome as a Succubus on the board. 

 

Stratagems are so bad - Making a core unit is so damn strong in competitive - but that is not the thing. I want my BT to see an enemy and let them kill in combat with zeal and skill..  we dont have any stratagem which you can take in close combat to buff a squad. No +1 to hit, no +1 to wound, no rerolls, no attacks, ...the behaviour of a BT squad without any character nearby is the same when a Imperial fist space marine does. 

[Medjugorje]

The main problem with  all good weapons like Thunderhammers or Fists is that their performance often decide how this unit perfroms ... and 4+ throwings are that what i call " lucky throws" which are very depressing for your opponent as for yourself. 

 

If your rolls are lucky then the opponent is angry because you just had luck, if your throws fails then you are pissed. Thats a bad mechanic I think. If you have rerolls then each player is "ok" with the result because its much closer to what both expected to be. 

 

Same here for 4+ against psychic powers and tenacious assault. 

[redmapa]

I think this is a fair opinion and I can understand it but you have to realize that rules change all the time and this time it changed for the better. Sure there arent that many movement buffs like before and some of the vows arent great or buff our damage but we can build some nasty sergeants in several squadsl, new crusader squads can take 3 to 5 power weapons and Uphold is so good at making lists more viable that Im happy if thats the only good one and that the old superdoctrine is mostly gone.

 

I think theres plenty of gold in this book to find something that interests you, you just have to see it with fresh eyes.

[Blindhamster]

must be a grass is always greener moment, but I look at the stuff you guys just got and I look at what my BA got and I WISH i got half the cool toys you guys did. To me it looks like a great supplement with a bunch of cool options.

 

Sorry it hasn't landed as well for you though.

[Medjugorje]

must be a grass is always greener moment, but I look at the stuff you guys just got and I look at what my BA got and I WISH i got half the cool toys you guys did. To me it looks like a great supplement with a bunch of cool options.

 

Sorry it hasn't landed as well for you though.

I play BA since 5th edition. I know that codex. 

 

Its not a competitive codex - not close to BT. But in fungames I like it play them WAY MORE then the new BT one. Because for me all units work as I see them. 

The rules seems to be like they should be - if you are in combat, BA get in rage - maybe they hit not good but each hit has THAT power and with lots of attacks which have +1 to wound its exactly how a berserker fights. 

 

What is a KNIGHT to me? He is skilled in fighting. He hits much more accurate then any wild berserker and that is not shown in this codex for me. Autowounds are lucky punches- A knight should not have lucky punches. He knows what he does. 

And in case of ANGRY knights exploding 6s is what they could represent. The sword brethren are the only ones who have acces to it except for one vow.

 

 

LITANY of HATE should say everything. As the chapter who are known for its HATE the rules would be perfect to have much more easier acces for all units to rerolls.

[Xenith]

If your rolls are lucky then the opponent is angry because you just had luck, if your throws fails then you are pissed. Thats a bad mechanic I think. 

 

I hate to say, but 40k might not be the game for you. Its mechanics are largely based on dice rolling. 

 

Being less facaetious, the poer fists and hammers you mention have a -1 to hit as they hit hard. It's a risk/reward calculation. If you want less risk and more reliability, take power swords. If you want high power and to mitigate risk, then things like chaplains add to your hit rolls/provide rerolls. I hear Templars have a thing for chaplains. 

Edited October 11, 2021 by Xenith

[Kilamandaros]

How many games have you actually played with the new codex exactly? Fair enough it's your opinion but I think you would have been disappointed with any release that didn't make BT the new super OP broken army in the game and even if that were the case, guess what - you'd have been disappointed 3 months later when it got nerfed.

 

It's easy to see there are some very competitive options in this book, the 5++/5+++ options makes Templars as survivable as death guard and we have access to some of the best relics of any marine chapter. Yes Devout Push got nerfed, that was always going to happen, it was never supposed to do what it did RAI - and if the Warlord Traits and Stratagems aren't up to scratch then we have a whole other codex we can choose from.

 

I think you need to relax, play some games and stop worrying so much about power level and meta - we'll be just fine like the rest of the Marine chapters currently, not the strongest but certainly not the weakest.

[Charlo]

Have you checked out Sigismund's seal? That pretty much lets any unit be a beast in combat given it's intended target.

 

Using characters to buff units is what 8th and 9th edition are all about, it's the way the game is played.

 

Sure, BT don't have combat bonuses built in but they get into combat easier with the CT.

 

 

 

must be a grass is always greener moment, but I look at the stuff you guys just got and I look at what my BA got and I WISH i got half the cool toys you guys did. To me it looks like a great supplement with a bunch of cool options.

 

Sorry it hasn't landed as well for you though.

I play BA since 5th edition. I know that codex. 

 

Its not a competitive codex - not close to BT. But in fungames I like it play them WAY MORE then the new BT one. Because for me all units work as I see them. 

The rules seems to be like they should be - if you are in combat, BA get in rage - maybe they hit not good but each hit has THAT power and with lots of attacks which have +1 to wound its exactly how a berserker fights. 

 

What is a KNIGHT to me? He is skilled in fighting. He hits much more accurate then any wild berserker and that is not shown in this codex for me. Autowounds are lucky punches- A knight should not have lucky punches. He knows what he does. 

And in case of ANGRY knights exploding 6s is what they could represent. The sword brethren are the only ones who have acces to it except for one vow.

 

 

LITANY of HATE should say everything. As the chapter who are known for its HATE the rules would be perfect to have much more easier acces for all units to rerolls.=

 

It's only "lucky punches" as that is how you interpret it. The auto wound on a 6 to hit could just as easily be interpreted as a perfect strike at the right moment, or a riposte.

 

Litany of Hate is still there, you just need a chaplain like always!

[Banjulhu]

Given the fuller reveals in the reviews over the weekend I'm a lot more content with the new book's well content.

What has been yanking my crank a bit is more how did GW came to the conclusion to reveal the bits of rules they did (with obvious errors in explaining how they work to boot) rather than the cool stuff like the Uphold the Honour of the Emperor vow or stratagems like Shock and Awe and Champion of the Feast let you do something that has been asked for since it was removed or a provides a way to upgrade unit champs in a way not really seen elsewhere respectively.

[Medjugorje]

a  bt should not need a guy who tells him to being angry. he should tell him "being more angry"

 

look why I like the BA rules and i think they are very thematic (although being not close competitive)

 

BA represting their lore so well. BA alsways have a war insight against black rage and red thirst which they try to resistant. So they hold back in early rounds - but as longer the fight is the more bloodlust they get - and if a unit decide to "give up the fight against BR and RT" then put them into Assault docrine via CP !!! 

 

Extremely fluffy i would say.

Given the fuller reveals in the reviews over the weekend I'm a lot more content with the new book's well content.

What has been yanking my crank a bit is more how did GW came to the conclusion to reveal the bits of rules they did (with obvious errors in explaining how they work to boot) rather than the cool stuff like the Uphold the Honour of the Emperor vow or stratagems like Shock and Awe and Champion of the Feast let you do something that has been asked for since it was removed or a provides a way to upgrade unit champs in a way not really seen elsewhere respectively.

i already have the rules. complete - and for me they are disappointing.

[Charlo]

Without any reasons beyond "I can't advance and charge anymore" and "I want the old devout push" it does sound like you're exaggerating! 

[Orange Knight]

This is very interesting to me, considering I just made another topic about my experience using this army.

 

I can understand that you might have desired a very particular play theme from the army that it doesn't quite meet, but in terms of performance on the tabletop the Templars are fantastic. I had great fun using them.

[tvih]

I don't know if they'll be competitive - but I don't need them to be, I've got CF with all its meta shootiness for that when needed. Seems to me I'll be able to play them largely like I did back in 6th edition with the old standalone codex, with plenty of melee. Sure, character customization isn't quite the same and no double-Cyclone terminators and stuff like that - but the basic concept of the lists. Especially since 5++ will make vehicles slightly better than the state of uselessness of not having said 5++. And characters were largely needed for the buffs back then too, just that there were less buffs.

 

Unfortunate you're not happy with it, but alas, not everyone can be.

[Lord Blackwood]

Im sitting here with my 3  Redemptor Baseline and the Angriest Tech Marine known to man who only ever takes  1 damage 

Loading up some Blade Guard in Impulsors with multi meltas on em causeI dont have to pay for shield domes no more. 

Got the crusaders on deck to run at the enemy while screaming hyms about cutting xenos to bits. 

High Speed Zealotry from Biker Chaplain to be where he needs to be preachin. 

I think the books gonna be fun to play , and you never know what the minds from the competitive scene will come up with.

[templargdt]

I would just say give it a chance. Maybe you don't like it but this is obviously an enormous moment for templars. Give it a shot and try to enjoy the new stuff! You may find things you really like.

[Medjugorje]

Without any reasons beyond "I can't advance and charge anymore" and "I want the old devout push" it does sound like you're exaggerating! 

why the accusations.

 

I would imagine there is noone who play that much then I do. (4 games per week on average). I think I know what I like and how fast i was excited when i see new cool rules. But in that book i havent those moments. I read and read and think about lists - calculate with new point costs - and everything its a mess. 

 

If you like it? Nice for you. We will see how this book is seen in few weeks, month and so on.

[Medjugorje]

Im sitting here with my 3  Redemptor Baseline and the Angriest Tech Marine known to man who only ever takes  1 damage 

 

Loading up some Blade Guard in Impulsors with multi meltas on em causeI dont have to pay for shield domes no more. 

 

Got the crusaders on deck to run at the enemy while screaming hyms about cutting xenos to bits. 

 

High Speed Zealotry from Biker Chaplain to be where he needs to be preachin. 

 

I think the books gonna be fun to play , and you never know what the minds from the competitive scene will come up with.

The thing is that I always had my BT in all editions as Funarmy which I played a lot of non-competitive games. But This codex dont feel like that I would have even fun with them in a normal game against our "fluff-gamers" in my gaming club.

I would just say give it a chance. Maybe you don't like it but this is obviously an enormous moment for templars. Give it a shot and try to enjoy the new stuff! You may find things you really like.

of course i will try. I have holyday from today on... And will play a lot of games. But we will see.

[Marshal Valkenhayn]

I don't understand the fascenation with rerolls. Yes it's a solid buff, and yes spreading a lot of units across the table and rerolling hits or whatever would cut down on the reliance on characters for that specific buff, but it's such an uninspired thing to want. Taking the 6+ to hit auto wounds is going to make a decent impact on the actual damage a unit gets through while off on its own. Taking the reroll wounds of 1 against psychers will get you that boost if you're facing Grey Knights or Thousand Suns. There's the relic that gives you full rerolls against a target, which you could choose to be off on its own somewhere. And most importantly, our buffs like the +1 attack litany only requires the unit be nearby when its inspired, not during the fight phase.

 

 I do understand your disappointment with the EC. To me he still seems oddly lacking in survivability, and I would have prefered more army-wide inspiration mechanics if he killed something. Personally I probably would have made him a bit more expensive, built the immortality relic into the armor of faith, and let him throw out a table wide buff after he slew something in melee. 

 

On the other hand, we have Vows now! That's a mechanic we can do, IN 9th. We have new neophytes. We have some very good anti-psycher support, much more than we did before. All of our bad relics got tune ups...We don't have rerolls or extra attacks for free, but we have ways of getting both of those buffs, and we have other buffs that stack with them we DO get for free.

[Medjugorje]

dont get me wrong. there are many things i like - but overall i expected more. 

 

Helbrecht is like he should be

Grimaldus is like he should be

max1 damage relic is aboslutely insane 

feast of blades stratagem + sword of judgement/fist of Balthus is a god damn heavy cool combination.

[Medjugorje]

 

 

LOOK WHAT JACK HARPSTER ( the current BEST BT PLAYER) says about the VOWS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Charlo]

What's the TL;DR? :)