my honest opinion

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

And AP2… don’t forget dirty hiveguard.

[Medjugorje]

I thought they have -3. Or was it just on 6s to wound?

[SkimaskMohawk]

I thought they have -3. Or was it just on 6s to wound?

It's ap -2, ignore cover and los.

[Medjugorje]

ignore cover - thats why I have ap3 in my head.

[Urkh]

In my last game against nidz, my brother allowed my drop pod to land a melta dev squad next to his hive guard. Wiped them in a single round. He said that alone cost him the game.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

In my last game against nidz, my brother allowed my drop pod to land a melta dev squad next to his hive guard. Wiped them in a single round. He said that alone cost him the game.

.

Well played !

[Helias_Tancred]

no. overwhelming BT with advance and charge made my playstyle that fun when all squads used to running towards the big brawl in the center of the board ...

 

 

 

I understand your feelings on this. As a longtime Blood Angel player, the nerfing of our Descent of Angels Strat (3d6 charge from deep strike with jp units in 8th) in 9th ed. really gave me a similar feeling as what you stated. It was fun to use, it was good, and it was very thematic! The three winning traits of a good stratagem. I'm till sore about that un-needed nerf.

[BitsHammer]

 

no. overwhelming BT with advance and charge made my playstyle that fun when all squads used to running towards the big brawl in the center of the board ...

 

 

 

I understand your feelings on this. As a longtime Blood Angel player, the nerfing of our Descent of Angels Strat (3d6 charge from deep strike with jp units in 8th) in 9th ed. really gave me a similar feeling as what you stated. It was fun to use, it was good, and it was very thematic! The three winning traits of a good stratagem. I'm till sore about that un-needed nerf.

 

Sadly Blood Angels ate that nerf thanks to the Smash captain builds of 8th that were dominating Comp 40k for a long time and remained relevant in Space Marine lists basically the entire edition. 

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

BA getting +1 to charge really lessened the blow.

[Medjugorje]

I playing BA as well. I know how strong the nerf was. But honestly - the 3d6 charge was far too OP in 8th. As was Devout push + Advance and charge. But they already changed Devout push. they should have made advance and charge or even just a stratagem which gives you always 3" movement in the movement phase.

[SkimaskMohawk]

I playing BA as well. I know how strong the nerf was. But honestly - the 3d6 charge was far too OP in 8th. As was Devout push + Advance and charge. But they already changed Devout push. they should have made advance and charge or even just a stratagem which gives you always 3" movement in the movement phase.

GW loves to not be proportional. As you said, the BA strat was op in 8th with smash captains. But since then, we've had the following nerfs to the smash captain;

 

-honour the chapter can only be used on assault intercessors

-only in death can't be used to fight a second time

-strength stacking works differently

-modifiers capped at +1 to hit/wound

-thunderhammer ap changed to -2

-transhuman moved to Primaris only

-cannot benefit from their own reroll aura

-foc changes result in fewer HQ slots

 

Maybe some other things lol.

[GenerationTerrorist]

 

 

Are there any matchup you don't want to take uphold? Against an opponent with few to none high-AP attacks, but still a playable army?

 

The only thing I could imagine is Terminus Est. 0% long range shooting but playable army.

Nids maybe?

 

If he plays mass infantry then there will be Genestealers in it and at least some Genestealer characters. But most of the time nids is a shooting army with lots of ap3 

 

 

A massed Genestealer blob backed up by a Broodlord is still something that absolutely terrifies me.

[BitsHammer]

I playing BA as well. I know how strong the nerf was. But honestly - the 3d6 charge was far too OP in 8th. As was Devout push + Advance and charge. But they already changed Devout push. they should have made advance and charge or even just a stratagem which gives you always 3" movement in the movement phase.

I would have taken a 6" heroic intervention strat instead.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Good for a chuckle:

 

“So, I was convinced to play templars at a local RTT this past weekend. Being a DG player I thought, "how hard can it be?" Was I ever so shocked that it seemed like points were falling from the sky right in to my lap.

 

“I did Oaths of Moment for all 3 games and was absolutely stunned at how ridiculous it was. Even after being tabled by a great Grey Knights player, it still ticked on the "did not fall back or fail morale" thing. I took the "my character can beat up your character" secondary and even though my character had nothing to do with chasing down a cowering tech Marine, a ridiculously OP bladeguard Sergeant did 15 dmg to him with the relic sword, +1ws/wound/attack and ignoring ap1/2. That gave me 10 points. Thanks to devout push on a giant brick of primaris crusaders with 5+++ fnp and immunity to psychic and an impulsor full of blade Guard I was able to pull a tyranids player off every objective before he could score them on turn 2 for surround and destroy which is a hold 1/2/more mission with 6 objectives. It felt like cheating, and I wasn't even using something as silly as AdMech or Drukhari.”

 

“All this is to say that it drove home the point that the game's balance is massively off. I ran an elite-ish infantry horde with a book I opened a day prior and went undefeated against white scars, Grey Knights, and nids/GSC. That should not be possible.”

[Medjugorje]

game strength is not the point on my complainments. I want a melee army - an aggressiv melee army like White Scars not a Death Guard. BT are Crusaders who.

 

I read this comment on facebook already. Which tournament and which opponents? 

[Mandragola]

Personally, im finding lots to like about this book, but also a few pretty big frustrations with how it's been designed.

 

The biggest issue for me is the vows, because they appear to be a complete failure to achieve what was intended. The idea seems to be that you pick a vow before each game but the reality is you take uphold 9 times out of 10 and regret not taking it the 10th.

 

None of the other vows have effects even remotely comparable with an army-wide 5++. Some have passions that make them serious liabilities. i don't need to go on really - the difference is so obvious and uphold is now assumed to be in effect, rightly.

 

Stuff like this makes me really question the design studio. Do they have any clue about their game? Does this stuff get tested at all? It's just so weird and frustrating. I'm not really surprised some people conclude there must be some clever plan to gef us to buy some model or other (though what?) behind this. It's hard to believe, and honestly kind of upsetting, that the designers are really so bad at their jobs.

Edited October 21, 2021 by Mandragola

[BitsHammer]

Stuff like this makes me really question the design studio. Do they have any clue about their game? Does this stuff get tested at all? 

Yes to both counts. Remember though they're living at least 18 months to 2 years ahead of us.

Edited October 21, 2021 by Fulkes

[Kastor Krieg]

 

Stuff like this makes me really question the design studio. Do they have any clue about their game? Does this stuff get tested at all? 

Yes to both counts. Remember though they're living at least 18 months to 2 years ahead of us.

Why is that a factor though? So, they're ahead on the schedule - still, the 2023/24 meta they're working on should be fairly balanced when it arrives.

 

 

[tvih]

Just you wait 'til Uphold loses its ability to affect vehicles...

[a_typical_hero]

Unlikely. 1k Sons hand out a 5++ to all their vehicles as well. Nobody is questioning it there, why should Templars be different?

[tvih]

Unlikely. 1k Sons hand out a 5++ to all their vehicles as well. Nobody is questioning it there, why should Templars be different?

Because GW likes doing silly things, and that would be their idea of "balancing" the vows instead of buffing the others? :P

[Medjugorje]

 

Stuff like this makes me really question the design studio. Do they have any clue about their game? Does this stuff get tested at all? 

Yes to both counts. Remember though they're living at least 18 months to 2 years ahead of us.

 

it functions as long as people like you think so...  There must not be a META to see the difference between those trades. 

Same with Admech (everything which is new is OP- all old played thins are bad). 

Drukhari before in 8th all people played Talos - now all people playing witches.

Agressors with doubleshooting and advance and shoot without penalties and now BGV and Eradicators are way superior.

 

 

I think the desgingn of the vows were a great idea but poorly implemented

[BitsHammer]

 

 

Stuff like this makes me really question the design studio. Do they have any clue about their game? Does this stuff get tested at all? 

Yes to both counts. Remember though they're living at least 18 months to 2 years ahead of us.

Why is that a factor though? So, they're ahead on the schedule - still, the 2023/24 meta they're working on should be fairly balanced when it arrives.

Because they're looking at books way in advance which means they're not just writing for this book, but for the books that come after it.

 

Though the real question is how the heck Ad Mech and Drukhari came out the way they did unless GW really ignored the playtester feedback on that one (or didn't give it to the playtesters because Covid).

[Kilamandaros]

My only disappointment in the book so far doesn't come from how powerful or weak the rules are - I'm mainly interested in narrative/casual mp so that's fairly irrelevant - it's a problem that derives from the whole Primaris debacle itself. I love the new models, I got the starter box and was hyped for getting all the other releases...but then I started tinkering with lists and unit compositions and kept coming back to wanting to just include firstborn.

 

Why? Transports. I love my LRC, my Stormraven and turn 1 drop pod assaults. Impulsors and Repulsors don't feel like they belong in my army and I don't like the models. Therefore I'm left having to footslog if I want to include the new models and even worse, I've lost the ability to include in transports the character my firstborn army was always based around - Grimaldus. I have him and his command squad lovingly recreated from Helsreach and now they're unable to venture into battle together unless I can agree to some kind of legends match.

 

I fully get that GW have imposed the separation of Primaris to sell their shiny new tanks and transports but in my case it's totally putting me off altogether. I'm on the verge of selling all the Primaris stuff from the box apart from the beautiful codex and being one of those grumpy firstborn players. I really don't want to be, I love the models and would happily replace all my dwarf marines, but I love the older vehicles so much more. I would actually take them getting rid of firstborn marines altogether if it meant Primaris could sit in an LRC/Stormraven etc. but I think we all know how likely that is.

 

Sucks!

Edited October 21, 2021 by Kilamandaros

[a_typical_hero]

I feel you. You might want to consider converting Primaris to Firstborn. Some conversions are really easy.