General late '21/early '22 balance discussion

[Miek]

I'm looking forward to the (hopefully) other point drops, but this just gave me 60 points on my 1k Novokh list. That's very nice, I'm excited!

[Malakithe]

Yeah im hoping for more drops then what was previewed. The drops to the LoWs is nice but wont really do anything when other factions melta options and anti-tank are getting drops too. Living Metal is nice for a added bonus but how do the big boys not have Quantum Shielding

[Daimyo-Phaeron Lenoch]

=][= Minor note that I've updated the topic title to better reflect the overall general topic shift. Carry on, folx. =][=

 

Personally, I welcome the changes to an extent. I think they were intended to double down on the addition of CORE to a lot of our list, by bringing down destroyer points--after all, if you're running a destroyer cult army, suddenly you can squeeze in a not insignificant amount of additional models (whereas a more traditional silver tide list with only a few more destroyers sprinkled in for flavor slash antitank only benefits partially, for maybe two to three more infantry, or an upgrade or arkana somewhere).

 

For my own part, unfortunately, they don't do a whole lot for me, as I tend to run Warrior Brick Galore, or Oops, All Canopteks! unless there are a lot of minor points changes that aren't in the update (at least until I get my Silent King and Monolith painted, at which point they will promptly fall victim to 'shiny model syndrome' because the monolith has no defense against Meltas. I don't care if it doesn't have an invuln please just give it a 'max wounds lost per phase' rule I want to vacuum something).

[Bonzi]

I'm hoping there are points cuts beyond what was shown in the teaser although I assume what they showed were the most significant ones. There are very very few units in our dex that feel like they are in a good place.

 

Monolith could by fixed by giving it T10. Nothing but the very biggest guns should be easily wounding a brick of flying Blackstone.

[Mr4Minutes]

I think the GSC codex has solved the RP problem. Their Call the Cult rule would be easier to use and speed things up.

 

For those that don’t know, it allows GSC to return models to units in the command phase. The rule caps how many models can return to each unit. There are ways to use the ability twice on the same unit, but it can never get more models returned then the cap.

Neophytes(basic troop) get d6, capped at 6. And the other units are d3, capped at 3.

 

A version of this on Necrons would speed the game(no need to roll dice based on wound count) guarantee we get models back, but also give opponents the opportunity to wipe squads before the rules takes effect again.

 

Now we should come back better then GSC, so I was thinking d6 per 10 Warriors, capping at 12 for a full squad. And d3, capping at 3 for everything else. Possibly d6 for full squads of immortals and lychguard.

 

The downside for this is our squads could be focused down and removed before we get a chance to reanimate again. However, I think that’s off set by guaranteeing we get models back. No more loosing 4 wraiths, rolling a bunch of dice and seeing no models return.

[Mandragola]

These changes are interesting in that I think they make the army better, but different to how it was before. By dropping the points for Skorpekhs and making them Core but not dropping the cost of any of the existing Core stuff (basically troops and Lychguard) there's a bit of a power shift within the books.

 

I think it's pretty easy now to suggest you should put 18 Skorpekhs into a list for 540 points, basically as a starting point. I have 12 and that doesn't feel like enough. I also have 60 warriors and that feels like roughly 60 more than I need. Seriously, why would I pay 13 points for T4 4+ save wounds on Warriors when I can pay 10 points for T5 3+ saves on Skorpekhs? Unfortunately I think that, if Warriors ever had a niche, it's gone - until the next time they change the rules of course.

 

Here's a list I threw together. Weirdly I find it has almost no guns in, which may turn out to be a problem. I actually think Lokhusts could be pretty good now so there's definitely a case for including them. The idea here though is to throw the maximum number of threats possible at the enemy at the beginning, tying them up with the scarabs and wraiths a bit before the wave of Skorpekhs lands. Then the Lychguard and Nightbringer should be too difficult for whoever's left to remove.

 

Eternal Expansionist Patrol

 

Anrakyr the Traveller 140

 

5 Gauss Immortals 85

 

10 Lychguard 280

 

C'tan Shard of the Nightbringer 370

 

5 Wraiths 175

 

9 Scarabs 135

 

Eternal Expansionist Vanguard

 

Illuminor Szeras 160

 

2 Cryptothralls 40

 

6 Skorpekh Destroyers 180

 

6 Skorpekh Destroyers 180

 

6 Skorpekh Destroyers 180

 

Plasmacyte 15

 

6 Flayed Ones 60

[Lord_Ikka]

Of course, we don't have the full points adjustment yet, so maybe Warriors/Immortals came down by .5/1 point?

[Ahzek451]

Of course, we don't have the full points adjustment yet, so maybe Warriors/Immortals came down by .5/1 point?

They didn't get adjustments.

Warcom previewed everything for us minus flayed ones.

[Lord_Ikka]

 

Of course, we don't have the full points adjustment yet, so maybe Warriors/Immortals came down by .5/1 point?

They didn't get adjustments.

Warcom previewed everything for us minus flayed ones.

 

Where did they say that? 

[Cruor Vault]

 

 

Of course, we don't have the full points adjustment yet, so maybe Warriors/Immortals came down by .5/1 point?

They didn't get adjustments.

Warcom previewed everything for us minus flayed ones.

 

Where did they say that? 

 

The full text of CA2022 is on the web if you look hard enough.

 

The changes were anemic and stupid for the most part. 

 

Nothing of any real substance. Necrons were the clear winners, but as others have said the only things NOT mentioned in the article were Flayed Ones dropping by 3ppm and Doomstalkers dropping 10pts

[Lord_Ikka]

 

The full text of CA2022 is on the web if you look hard enough.

 

 

The changes were anemic and stupid for the most part. 

 

Nothing of any real substance. Necrons were the clear winners, but as others have said the only things NOT mentioned in the article were Flayed Ones dropping by 3ppm and Doomstalkers dropping 10pts

 

Hmm. Well, that's annoying. It will definitely make my own preferred lists better (I run 2x max Skorpehk a lot), but don't really like the fact that our basic troops are becoming a sideline/tax. Guess I might try out some Ophidians now as well...

[Malakithe]

I would love to use doomstalkers if they werent so fragile and swingy. Dropping points def isnt the answer here