Among the 'zillion rumours of Craftworlds...

[Prot]

I have a few questions.

 

First off I'm looking at some Howling Banshees I bought just before I sold my latest Eldar army. I want to know if the new rules are appealing, or just as bad?

 

I've made the exarchs to be an executioner and that tricicle (?) thing. 

 

Also with the new models coming out, I started to wonder about a paint scheme for them. I realize GW is using Saim Han as the poster boy craftworld but I did enjoy doing my own Craftworld colour scheme, and then playing them as any (non-named) Craftworld I wanted.

 

Are any of those flexible rules going to be out again? Or is it best to stick to a named Craftworld this time around?

 

I'm trying to find some of the rules, but most of it is on youtube in pieces so I thought I'd just ask here in case anyone is in the know!

 

Thanks.

[Tyriks]

I think Banshees look pretty sweet. I will be using some in my army for sure, but I do love fast cc units a lot and they have amazing models so I probably will even if they turn out to be bad. But people generally seem to like what we've seen, is my assessment. It does seem like the Mirrorswords are the fan favorite loadout at the moment but I might be mistaken.

 

I don't know about which Craftworlds are going to be good. I think thy said the custom Craftworlds are still around but I don't know if they're the same or new traits.

[Karhedron]

Welcome back to the path of the Warrior. Let go of your old self and embrace the arts of Khaine.

 

Banshees are looking very promising in the new Codex. While they are still fragile, all Aspect Warriors have gained a 5+ Invulnerable save which means they can risk taking on dangerous units in melee with at least a chance of surviving.

 

They are as fast as ever and pulling off a T1 charge with these girls is possible, especially if they start off in a Wave Serpent. Whether this will be worthwhile will depend on the battle but I can see it being useful if your opponent leaves a flank lightly guarded.

 

The main improvement has been to their hitting power. In 8th edition they were Strength 3 meaning that once they reached melee, they struck with all the force of a wet noodle. In the new codex their power swords are S+1 meaning they are hitting at S4, also they get +1 to Wound in the first round of combat meaning they will would Marines on a 3+. They have also got an extra Attack on their profile meaning that an MSU can expect to cause around 6 Wounds to Marines by the time you include the Exarch which is enough damage to make them interesting.

 

They are still a finesse unit and epitomise the Eldar "fast but fragile" mantra. At least now they are somewhat of a glass cannon rather than a glass water-pistol.

Edited February 8, 2022 by Karhedron

[Karhedron]

On the colour scheme front, it has usually been the case that if you paint you army in a custom colour scheme, you are free to use any of the army Traits in a codex, whether those are specific craftworks traits or DIY traits.

 

We have seen a list of Craftworld traits but we don't know about custom Craftworld creation rules yet. The recent Tau codex has the official Septs tending to be slightly stronger than the custom traits so it depends on whether your army and playstyle calls for a particular theme or not.

 

Alaitoc has been weakened and now receives light cover when being attacked from over 18" away. Given that 9th edition tends to involve fights over the table center for Objectives, this may be of limited value. (Essentially the Ravenguard Trait)

 

Saim Hann is apparently going to be Advance + Charge and can Charge after Falling Back.

 

Iyanden is +1 to Combat Attrition tests, reduce -1ap and -2ap attacks by -1ap

 

Ulthwé is ignore wounds on a 6+ and you get to keep an extra Strand of Fate dice.

 

Biel Tan is reroll 1 to-Wound dice per unit.

[TrawlingCleaner]

Welcome back Prot! Your Eldar were amazing so I'm looking forward to seeing what you can do with the new models too!

I can't add much more than Brother Tyriks and Karhedron other than the Datasheets:

 

 

and the more readable version:

 

 

Both the Executioner and the Mirrorswords look like great options. However we have not seen the Exarch powers, there's potential to push this unit even further with the Exarch powers.

From last night's Leaks Jain Zar gives an Aura for Banshees to become Obsec (as an Iybraesil player and someone who loves Banshees, this blew my mind)

[Halandaar]

Also with the new models coming out, I started to wonder about a paint scheme for them. I realize GW is using Saim Han as the poster boy craftworld but I did enjoy doing my own Craftworld colour scheme, and then playing them as any (non-named) Craftworld I wanted.

 

Are any of those flexible rules going to be out again? Or is it best to stick to a named Craftworld this time around?

 

If you don't feel a particularly affinity/loyalty to any of the named "major" Craftworlds, then definitely do your own colour scheme, especially if that's something you enjoy. The beauty of that is you can use any ruleset you want in any game you want, including the rules for Biel-Tan, Saim-Hann etc. It gives you complete flexibility and a degree of protection against future changes to the rules.

 

If for example Iyanden looked the strongest right now and you painted all your stuff up in their scheme, then they get hit with the nerfbat in 6 months time you're caught in a position where you've got a very obviously Iyanden-painted army that potentially you now want to play using non-Iyanden rules. I suppose it depends on your local situation and how flexible your usual opponents are, but I guess that might be a non-starter against certain opponents or in competitive scenarios. If you've gone for a custom scheme then that isn't an issue, you can just shift to a different ruleset.

 

First off I'm looking at some Howling Banshees I bought just before I sold my latest Eldar army. I want to know if the new rules are appealing, or just as bad?

 

I've made the exarchs to be an executioner and that tricicle (?) thing. 

 

I built mine the same way (rule of cool), but just FYI under the previous Codex the Executioner and Triskele are mutually exclusive. Not sure if that remains the same in the new book. EDIT - Looks like it is still the case.

Edited February 8, 2022 by Halandaar

[Karhedron]

Both the Executioner and the Mirrorswords look like great options. However we have not seen the Exarch powers, there's potential to push this unit even further with the Exarch powers.

From last night's Leaks Jain Zar gives an Aura for Banshees to become Obsec (as an Iybraesil player and someone who loves Banshees, this blew my mind)

Both weapon options do look very effective. Mirror Swords are better against 1W opponents, Executioner looks slightly better versus Marines. I do not think the difference is great enough to worry too much about.

 

Jain Zar giving ObjSec is excellent news and a really big boost to Banshees. I hope that this rule is common to all Pheonix Lords and their corresponding Aspect. I have 20 Dire Avengers so I can see Asurmen giving them a nice buff.

[Prot]

This is all very cool news

 

For those who are curious or just don't know.... this is the army I painted and sold last summer:

 

 

So I'm not posting this to show it off. But this scheme was incredibly slow and tedious to paint even with the stencils. 

 

I burned out on it, and although previous to this army I have played Ulthwé twice, and probably my biggest Eldar army was Alaitoc, I still am afraid of getting burned by picking a singular rule set. 

 

If I painted my own blue/green craftworld again, I would hope to be able to use any craftworld for rules?

 

I love the good news about the Banshees. Just painting them now... what a crazy amount of details! And Jain Zar! What great news! I love both sets of models and would love to use them.

 

Can anyone tell me if the old Serpent kit is going to stay? I'm thinking of picking up a new one?

 

Anyway, kind of all over the place here with ideas, but I'd like to see what Iyanden does. If you see my army above I really loved the Wraith models and used them a lot in 8th/9th. I found ways to win with them.

 

Biggest dissapointment was playing DE with my Wraith army... horrid match up. Even Wraithlords drop like nothing. Anyway...still deciding and using whatever info is out there.

[Tyriks]

Wow, those are gorgeous! I get what you mean though. I have a hard time doing anything canon after being locked in to Blood Angels through 7th where they were just strictly worse than marines right up until the end.

 

There have been no indications that the Wave Serpent is going anywhere and having just built one and repaired another from ebay the kit has held up fine. Just needs a bit of a clamp while the glue dries, imo.

[TrawlingCleaner]

While beautiful, I can see that the amount of work you have to put in to get those results.

 

The kits we know for sure are getting updated are:

Avatar

Maugan

Dark Reapers

Shining Spears

Guardians

Storm Guardians

Rangers

Warlocks

Ranger Bikes

Foot/WGG

 

And Corsairs via Killteam

 

Every other kit for this codex release is safe IMO. The Wave Serpent Chasis is so iconic I think they're probably a tad scared to touch it

There will be a Wave 2+ at some point but I think it's safe to say it's a good while out.

 

Schemes are obviously down to you and your own preference/groups preference but I'm all for painting your guys however you want to and picking rules as you see fit

[Karhedron]

Can anyone tell me if the old Serpent kit is going to stay? I'm thinking of picking up a new one?

I am pretty sure that all the existing vehicles are remaining them same.

 

Anyway, kind of all over the place here with ideas, but I'd like to see what Iyanden does. If you see my army above I really loved the Wraith models and used them a lot in 8th/9th. I found ways to win with them.

Current rumour is that Iyanden is +1 to Combat Attrition tests, reduce -1ap and -2ap attacks by -1ap. This should make for a pretty durable army as Infantry will be unlikely to flee while mid-AP weapons will have their teeth pulled somewhat. I think that it looks like a pretty effective combo, especially given that Pulse rifles, Primaris bolters and Doctrines mean that even small arms fire usually has a point or two of AP these days.

 

Biggest dissapointment was playing DE with my Wraith army... horrid match up. Even Wraithlords drop like nothing. Anyway...still deciding and using whatever info is out there.

Yeah, that is harsh. DE poison weapons really are the paper to a Wraith Host's stone. I am not quite sure what the solution is to this problem. Maybe sprinkle some vehicles among the Wraith units for mobility and immunity to poison?

[Prot]

So Dire Avengers look safe? 

 

I'm really happy to hear about those Banshees... I guess they might work on foot, but don't feel likely too.

 

I'm a little disappointed they didn't put troops in the box for Eldar.

 

For right now, I'm leaning towards coming up with my own scheme again... just not as time consuming!

[Captain Coolpants]

I honestly find you're almost always better off coming up with your own schemes or alterations. Otherwise, it'll just look like "another" *insert army here*.

The only time it's worth doing a standard colour scheme is if you go all out, which prot, we all know you can do. But is very time consuming, which you're trying to avoid.

 

Shame you sold your last army, wraiths are looking good this codex with the minus damage in all of them.

 

And avengers look good with buffed guns.

Edited February 8, 2022 by Captain Coolpants

[Tyriks]

The only issue with Dire Avengers is that they are (supposedly? confirmed? I can't remember at this point) moving to the Elites slot. They are safe model wise though unless something comes completely out of nowhere. Edited February 8, 2022 by Nemesor Tyriks

[Karhedron]

Yes, DAs are moving to Elites which rather scuppers all-Aspect lists unless you play a Vanguard detachment. To be fair, they have gained some spiffy new rules in the move and their Dire Catapult is a lot deadlier. I am certain the models are staying as they are. They would not bother tooling up a new edition of plastic Avengers when there are several Aspects still in finecast.

[TrawlingCleaner]

Dire Avenger models are safe, as Karhedron mentioned, they've moved to Elites with ways to be Obsec still.

 

Rangers are staying as Troops, as are Guardians and Storm Guardians. A variant of Corsairs will be Troops too

 

These are the DA stats from the reboxed version that's out now. These are missing Special Rules of course

[Prot]

The only issue with Dire Avengers is that they are (supposedly? confirmed? I can't remember at this point) moving to the Elites slot. They are safe model wise though unless something comes completely out of nowhere.

so part of my consideration here is cost.  I still have a good amount of the lesser popular Necrons and I can get the Necrons for Indomitus at a great price. So I’m weighing that as I can see this Eldar thing might be quite expensive.  

 

I found an unused wraithlord and a box of unused wraiths which is good. Still a long way to go. I guess a colour scheme would be a good thing to figure out. I’ll wait on Dire Avengers if they moved to Elites. Does that mean only one troop for Eldar?

[Tyriks]

Guardians and Rangers are both troops. Corsairs are too but apparently don't count towards your minimum for filling out a detachment?

 

As someone with something like 8000pts of painted Necrons I have to say - if you don't want to get locked in to bad rules maybe hold off on Necrons right now

[Prot]

Guardians and Rangers are both troops. Corsairs are too but apparently don't count towards your minimum for filling out a detachment?

 

As someone with something like 8000pts of painted Necrons I have to say - if you don't want to get locked in to bad rules maybe hold off on Necrons right now

well I sold my painted Necrons a few months ago. Honestly, I just like the army. 

 

Rangers as troops was just something I assumed  would change as it has other armies but since there’s no push to sell Primaris here, and the new rangers look so good, I can live with that. The rules do seem lethargic though so I hope they are cheap to field. 

 

I’m actually looking forward to new Guardians and storm guardians might even be fun. I always hated those wonky leg/ hip combo models. 

 

new rules leaks I’m catching up on look fun. New Warp spiders would be awesome. I have had several of the metal squads and they’ve needed a new sculpt for a while. They look super fun though. 

 

But nothing beats the Banshee Jain Zar stuff. I have always loved Banshees and now potentially obscene with Jain Zar? Amazing. I assume she hits hard too. 

I am painting the 10 banshees now and Jain…. Very intricate models. I wouldn’t ant to paint them again… they look awesome but tons of tiny details!

 

[Karhedron]

But nothing beats the Banshee Jain Zar stuff. I have always loved Banshees and now potentially obscene with Jain Zar? Amazing. I assume she hits hard too. 

I am painting the 10 banshees now and Jain…. Very intricate models. I wouldn’t ant to paint them again… they look awesome but tons of tiny details!

Current rules rumours for Jain Zarr courtesy of TrawlingCleaner.

 

-Jain is not hitting that hard. But moves fast, has ObSec, -1 to be hit, advance and charge, flight last on enemy, -1A on enemy. 6A S6 AP-3 2 damage. Sweeping profile. She might have -2 attacks now, cant confirm

Not a powerhouse unit but definitely good at killing MEQs and similar. She also synergises well with her Aspect. -1A on enemy units will be really good against popular units like VanVets as that will seriously degrade their hitting power, especially as the remaining attacks will be at -1 to-Hit.

[Prot]

For me the biggest issue with her might be using an HQ slot as it looks like HQ's will be quite juicy for the new dex.

 

I got used to not using an Autarch but it might be a great choice again. 

 

Looking at what I have it wouldn't be too far a stretch to get to 2K. The list might not be great to start.

 

Back on Wraiths, what is the general opinion on the old flamer D6 shots now, vs the cannon?

[Karhedron]

Back on Wraiths, what is the general opinion on the old flamer D6 shots now, vs the cannon?

D3 auto-hits gives an average of 2 hits at 8" regardless of movement.

 

D6 Blast gives 2.33 hits at 12" when moving normally or 1.75 hits when Advancing. These numbers improve when you fire at larger units but the meta at the moment favours MSU so is not reliable. A 5 man squad will kill on average almost 5 Marines.

 

Overall the D-Scythe is slightly improved in most situations vs its current incarnation. The big change is that is can now fire when coming in from Reserves. That means 5 guys with D-Scythes make a great threat to almost anything if popped in the webway.

 

Wraithcannons going to 18" is pretty tidy. Combined with the fact that most games involve a bun-fight for the midfield Objectives, I can see these guys being viable without a Wave Serpent potentially. Even with the buff to Aspect Warriors, I still see Cannon Wraithguard as basically invalidating Fire Dragons in all but the smallest games.

 

Axe and Shield Wraithblades is going to be solid as they are pretty much better than Bladeguard Veterans in every way. In fact a 1v1 would be laughably one-sided in favour of the Wraithblades.

[Captain Coolpants]

Didn't I see that wraiths can shoot in combat now? Will only affect the wraithcannons as D scythes are blast. But really makes them scary for combat too.

 

Shield and axe I think are still going to be the go-to though.

[Prot]

 

Back on Wraiths, what is the general opinion on the old flamer D6 shots now, vs the cannon?

D3 auto-hits gives an average of 2 hits at 8" regardless of movement.

 

D6 Blast gives 2.33 hits at 12" when moving normally or 1.75 hits when Advancing. These numbers improve when you fire at larger units but the meta at the moment favours MSU so is not reliable. A 5 man squad will kill on average almost 5 Marines.

 

Overall the D-Scythe is slightly improved in most situations vs its current incarnation. The big change is that is can now fire when coming in from Reserves. That means 5 guys with D-Scythes make a great threat to almost anything if popped in the webway.

 

Wraithcannons going to 18" is pretty tidy. Combined with the fact that most games involve a bun-fight for the midfield Objectives, I can see these guys being viable without a Wave Serpent potentially. Even with the buff to Aspect Warriors, I still see Cannon Wraithguard as basically invalidating Fire Dragons in all but the smallest games.

 

Axe and Shield Wraithblades is going to be solid as they are pretty much better than Bladeguard Veterans in every way. In fact a 1v1 would be laughably one-sided in favour of the Wraithblades.

 

 

 

Didn't I see that wraiths can shoot in combat now? Will only affect the wraithcannons as D scythes are blast. But really makes them scary for combat too.

 

Shield and axe I think are still going to be the go-to though.

 

So I found a 5 man kit of Wraithblades, that I am leaning towards Axe shield. (I just love the 4++ to be honest. It just feels like the army is still going to be overall like paper when it comes to survival.)

 

I found another 5 Wraith squad. I am leaning towards the Cannons instead of the D scythes partially because of the above blast issue, however I'm also looking at D cannons again with the artillery leaks:

 

 

45-65 pts,

 

M6" (great for artillery compared to my ultra's artillery) 

 

D-cannon 65 points: 24" Heavy D3 S12 AP-4 Damage 6+2!!!  (indirect)

 

I'm liking that.

[Karhedron]

I think Wraithblades are going to be one of our key units for contesting central Objectives. For that reason, I think the 4++ from the Shield is going to be crucial. Extra attacks from the swords are nice enough but most of the targets we really want to duke it out with will have multiple wounds and pack a punch of their own. We have multiple units for shredding 1-wound models and don't need Wraithguard for that job.

 

Wraithcannons vs D-scythes is looking finely balanced at the moment. I think I am leaning towards agreeing with you that Wraithcannons may be the better choice and using them as tank hunters. Our Troops, Fast Attack and Transports pack all the anti-infantry firepower we are likely to need so I think our Elites and Heavies should be focussed on cracking tougher targets.

 

D-Cannons may indeed be worth another look. Many times you will have Objectives within 24" of another Objective. If you park a Support platform unit along with some friends for defence on one Objective and within range of another, you are going to give your opponent a very hard time in taking either of them. Just make sure your "castle" is defended by something suitably beefy. A HWC Wraithknight might be a good choice as he can focus on firing but charge in to tackle any enemy who want to try and assault your artillery.