Lets discuss our shiny new codex

[chapter master 454]

So personally, I think this is a massive improvement. We got rid of our need to abuse one specific thing and now have a whole plethora of options open to us. Markerlights are good now, Crisis Suits are actually reasonable to use, Drones aren't confusing and busted as all get out and our HQs feel like they actually do something other than be a glorified markerlight carrier or outright best damage dealer outside of riptides!

 

I want to open our dialogue on various thoughts, combos and potential of the codex here in one thread since we are slowly cannibalising the stormsurge discussion thread for that purpose. Be it commander load-out ideas, army compositions (or even discussing popular ones that may already be around) or even just good ol' discussing maybe lesser recognised units. After all, it is all for the greater good! (unless you are Farsight Enclave...traitorous lot!) We can even discuss any lore that may of appeared or been progressed (doubtful, my scan of the lore seems to show it isn't much though could easily of missed things).

 

My first few things to discuss are varied but lets begin.

For commanders, these can get a little silly. With how our relics are with our relic section being an outright buffet of defence and utility options it means we can really go in on some out there builds for damage without needing to worry about relic slots. I mean, you can make what I could imagine is the most impossible to kill enforcer commander with the Be'Gel Plate, Ghost walks among us and put a shield generator on him and then go with Bork'An (though sept doesn't matter really). You now have a commander who is -1 to being hit, has a 1+ save, 4++ along with a 5+++. Oh and his natural -1 damage as well, you could really just have this guy sit on a flank and outright be the reason your opponent can't get far, top him with the proto-flamer and now be it range or melee he is a pain to handle.

Similarly, one loadout for Bork'An Coldstars I still can't decide on is a HOBC + Proto-Burst with Overdrive Relic and then the main idea is to give him Seeker of Perfection. 18 shots and at 11" you are +1 to wound with them. It should be fairly easy to trigger all the mortal wounds from the warlord trait with these guns regularly and one curious note: if you land Mortals with the Proto-Burst they can't use typical mortal protection against it. Go for Kauyon and just double down on doubling up though that is the long game. However my conflict is whether or not if it isn't better to just go precision...hard to balance in my opinion as being able to just dish out mortal wounds (even if only 3) makes this commander fairly decent for deal damage and the extra AP on these bursts is nasty (both are AP2, if you want to just go with Mont'Ka and can get it to trigger, they are AP3).

 

Been also just rummaging around the other units and I think one of the rogue units of the codex is likely to show up again as it did once in the past: the Piranhas. These things I would wager could be monstrous, and one possible threat could be from using custom septs. Sector A "Calm Under Pressure" and Sector C "Evasion Manoeuvres" with a Mont'Ka focus could see these things flying around the board with a 5++ and if they shoot something with 12", pulse Carbines from the drones are now Strength 6, if you went Burst Cannon it is now strength 7 (because theirs is special) and that is all before we have to talk about underslung Seeker missiles they can all carry in their massive squads of 5. You thought Ork Buggies were bad? These could be far worse imo. I mean, strength 9 fusion blasters are pretty tasty as well to be fair!

 

Final touching point is the rather open and free nature of 3 characters within the codex; Shadowsun, Aun'Va and Aun'Shi. Oddly able to be taken by any sept without issue (shadowsun by supreme commander detachment) however one thing I do note: Shadowsun does have an odd drawback, you can't get sept specific relics unless you are Tau Sept. Just an aside. These 3 are the generics that anyone can take and certain, the Etherals have merits, you do pay an extra 20 so points for them but they are in effect an etheral with the Humble Stave (well, not exactly, they know 3 invos and can cast 2, the humble just lets you cast a 2nd one) with Aun'Shi still being the definition of geting humiliated because not only did you get your rear kicked by a tau in MELEE, it was one of the oldest farts of the empire to boot! He is a little more specific for Vior'La but still is an option for all, Aun'Va being more generic in his offerings of buffs but overall not as impressive imo.

Shadowsun is...interesting. This Commander opted to revert rules instead of updating because her stealth tech just gives her the straight up old version of "look out sir" from 8th edition, not a target so long as someone else is closer. Makes her fairly independent but with her buffs, not exactly a pro (however she does have longer reach on her buffing so there is that). Being forced to take the Kauyon WL trait isn't great but if you do go Kauyon, that trait is a little crazy with what it lets you do; free reserving of units if you want or just redeploy them. Always useful and powerful. That being said, she doesn't bring as much firepower as a standard issue commander so I don't think we will see her outside of Supreme Commander detachments ever.

 

For a final note and comedy imo: They really wanted to make sure you didn't double up anything on broadsides. Not sure but I am pretty sure the first "no doubles" was enough but they went and added one after the options. Feels like Edna and capes.

"NO DOUBLES"

[Panzer]

I haven't done an indepth reading of everything yet but I definitely like that different Commanders bring different abilities to the table instead of just having a slightly different profile.

 

Kroot improvements are awesome to see but ultimately overshadowed by T'au units again of course since they for some reason still don't get to benefit from half the rules in the codex. I gave up on that ever changing so I'll take what's there.

 

I'm not really big on the changes to the Ghostkeel as 18" really isn't much room to avoid getting targeted on the smaller boards these days but at least it has T7 now so that's something.

 

The custom Septs are rather underwhelming in comparison with the official Septs but I was most likely going to stick to Dal'yth anyway. Gonna enjoy the improved armor on all infantry (including Crisis Suits and Commanders since they got the Infantry keyword now as well).

 

 

As for Shadowsun, Aun'Va and Aun'Shi, those do require some form of Errata as they do have a rule to not disrupt Sept rules when taken in a detachment of another Sept, but their rules don't circumvent the new overall rule of being allowed to take only one subfaction keyword in your whole army (not sure if that was just a new tournament rule or new core rule though).

[Progenitor]

From memory the rule about no mixing subfactions is a Matched Play only rule. 

[Panzer]

From memory the rule about no mixing subfactions is a Matched Play only rule. 

Which is what 99% of the people are playing and what tournament play is based on. ;) 

[Trokair]

While the codex in general feels good from my reading so far I have yet to find a satisfactory to make my army work properly the way it did before.

 

 

Now I am aware that I run a very niche/theme focus list as it is centered on my 12 XV15 Stealth suits and a stealth theme in general. My lists core is roughly 2 or 3 Sealthsuit squads, 2 Ghostkeels, Shadowsun or commander (with ghost walk amongst us to be on theme), and sometimes Remoras. After that I add some other units to fit.

 

 

The loss of access to AP-1 burst cannon really made itself felt in the two crusade games I played this week. Montka help to compensate a bit, but if I am within 12 or 9 of my opponent that just leads to my units dying, and if I keep back at range then my opponent just shrugged everything off.  Though has it was Deathguard and Custodes, so that contributed to the problems.  

 

As others have said the 18 for Ghostkeels means next to nothing on smaller tables. I can see how it can work on big tables at 2000p and up games where there is one Ghostkeel on a flank or some such, but form smaller games where the Ghostkeels are my main heavy option it has not actually mattered.

 

Remoras on the other hand have actually been useful, being so fast they can get the markerlight token where I need it every turn, and the change to the markerlight rules means they can markerlight and shoot (though the mini seekers missiles have yet to hit anything, but that’s just my dice rolls). Just a shame that in match play (as opposed to crusade) the limit on aircraft models (not units) really hinders them.

 

I am little confused on broadsides the change ton infantry kind of makes the stabilised optics mandatory, and if you want the traditional secondary weapon (plasma or smart missiles) you have no space for any other options.  

[Guest Triszin]

I like it a lot.

 

Only thing I wish we had a bit more customization on.

 

The fireblade, I would love for a blaster, carbine option.

And 2-3 unique options to choose from, relic/prototype wise

 

And for the fireblade to be like the lieutenants, i.e. you can buy 2 for 1 slot

Edited February 11, 2022 by Triszin

[Malakithe]

 

I am little confused on broadsides the change ton infantry kind of makes the stabilised optics mandatory, and if you want the traditional secondary weapon (plasma or smart missiles) you have no space for any other options.  

Do you really need anything outside of HRR + SMS + optics though? 

What would be a good sept to use thats heavy on battlesuits? Like a looooot of battlesuits

[AenarIT]

The Bork’an trait for -1S vs vehicles and battlesuits at S7 or lower is quite good. So either Bork’an or a custom sept with that trait.

[Panzer]

Since they're infantry they'll benefit nicely from the Dal'yth tenet as well. 1+ save against ranged attacks that don't ignore cover even when out in the open. :D

[Trokair]

 

Do you really need anything outside of HRR + SMS + optics though? 

What would be a good sept to use thats heavy on battlesuits? Like a looooot of battlesuits

 

 

Situational, but all the other options would have their use if there was space to take them. They are probably more useful on Missilesides; EWO if you are expecting enemies to deepstrike and charge, Velocity tracker and multi-tracker verses fly heavy or hordey armies.  Seeker for that extra early game punch if needed.

 

The Broadside looks like it should have some really flexibility in it, but I expect that almost all will be run as optics plus secondary weapon of preference.

 

As for battlesuit heavy lists, Bork’an dose look, I used it and against small arms fire it helped a lot for the stealthsuits and Commander.

[Malakithe]

Yeah im leaning towards bork bork. The range increase is nice too to push fusion blasters to 22" for that nice 11" half range bonus

[chapter master 454]

Certainly been looking at the Custom septs, extremely limited but that being said there is some stuff in there but you have to dig to find it and even then it is questionable. Do feel these are often put on the careful side of power which is reasonable, still somewhat sad though. However I will stand by the combo I presented: +1 strength at 12" and 5++ when advancing for fly units is kind of good. I mean, in that build you can get your Breacher Squads to be firing at strength 7 AP3.

 

Ahem, that is indeed Strength 7, AP3 weapons on basic troopers, no stratagems or outside boost bar Mont'Ka. They only get nuttier with boosts. I mean, with just a Cadre Fireblade nearby it could get even worse for your opponent with now each of those blasters exploding their hits on 6s. And don't sneeze at it, 20 shots even if damage 1 are going to do damage (heck, that's how mechanicus bodied the LVO! I don't need damage, just lots of bullets). I mean, Crisis suits could use this as well, 5++ isn't as good as a shield generator but hey, getting a 5++ is nice and when we are talking about possibly having Tau Flamers being strength 5, AP1 (ap from Mont'Ka because that is how this sept would always be used) that is no small amount of damage that could come in. Though considering the distance I would likely say Crisis Commanders, just to have the Fall-Back and shoot open. (Also, Strength 9 Fusion Blasters, strength 8 Missile pods. That trait is no joke). Heck if you wanted the keep the Bork'An defence you could, only really losing out on the Stratagem at that point really! (since "Calm under Pressure" is Sector A, it can combine with any other sector).

 

Granted it is only assault weapons but I mean, with how many assault weapons we have and lean on it may as well be army wide! Would even give a reason to run Pulse Carbine Fire Warriors, Strength 6 just being sprayed out would start to make even Custodes worry ("Brother, those tau have Carbines" "no worry" "I worry brother, they are strength 6!"). Again it may be needed to be within 12" but when running Mont'Ka you basically just run up the board and clear as you go. Only heavy weapons we have that need help are our forge world stuff anyway!

 

However, kind of Curious about a more odd-ball idea: Double Far Sight Enclave Patrol. Take Far'Sight and 3 commanders of your choice with 2 built as "fight-Manders".

Real quick: we need to talk about what we call our Melee commander builds. Like, for real. It needs a name!

You have Far'Sight, One commander gets the Onager Gauntlet, Another gets the special flamer and the last one get to come along because commanders are incredibly good and he can be a utility commander. First one is meant to be your boxer, mainly going for big threats. The Big Game hunter really. Gets Precision of the Hunter because we can't have him missing or not wounding. Likely good choice is an enforcer commander but not sure, likely give him the proto-Stimms. Second Commander takes the proto-Flamer, Far'Sight Specific Trait and he's aiming to make it so whatever he fights just has a bad time really. Give him Be'Gel Plate and he just becomes a nightmare slasher, occassionally dolling out AP5 flamer swings for the lols at damage 2. And no FNP regardless which is nice. More of the anti-infantry dude.

Final guy like I said likely just gets utility options, wouldn't even be adverse to making him quad-Airburst, relic airburst and puretide engram chip.

Then run a lot of Crisis suits and see where you get. Never said it was the greatest idea but certainly would be comical to see how someone would react to having 3 different Tau commanders kicking rear in melee! (meanwhile Bill'yBob in the back chucking frags for the lols out of line of sight!).

[Panzer]

The only problem with the +1S at 12" range is that you WILL get charged unless you pretty much table the opponent. It pretty much turns all your units into suicide units. And if the enemy wants to stay away you get nothing out of it.

 

The 5++ when advancing is nice too but makes you hit worse obviously, which directly counteracts the increased strength trait. You really don't want to hit worse when you get within charge range.

 

It can be super good but is rather difficult to apply without shooting yourself in your own foot and you shouldn't expect more than a few key units to really benefit from it in most games.

[Malakithe]

The only problem with the +1S at 12" range is that you WILL get charged unless you pretty much table the opponent. It pretty much turns all your units into suicide units. And if the enemy wants to stay away you get nothing out of it.

 

The 5++ when advancing is nice too but makes you hit worse obviously, which directly counteracts the increased strength trait. You really don't want to hit worse when you get within charge range.

 

It can be super good but is rather difficult to apply without shooting yourself in your own foot and you shouldn't expect more than a few key units to really benefit from it in most games.

Yeah I dont like the idea of suiciding 300pts of crisis suits for a gimmick 

[Guest Triszin]

so I really like this coldstar build

 

solid image projection, HOB, DW-02 burst, missile pod, poisitonal relay, ghost walks among us

 

I think he can advanced 14", gets 18 burst cannon shots, 4+ invuln, first failed saving throw damage per turn is reduced to zero

[AenarIT]

5 crisis suits (triple flamer or double flamer + burst) with +1S and reroll all wound rolls one shot an Imperial Knight on average.

I’d say it’s quite a gimmick.

Edited February 13, 2022 by AenarIT

[Guest Triszin]

5 crisis suits (triple flamer or double flamer + burst) with +1S and reroll all wound rolls one shot an Imperial Knight on average.

I’d say it’s quite a gimmick.

I like it, if you have the points you could always do double flame and a cyclic for extra umpf if you need it

 

 

On stealth suits question

If I take double ghost keels, how many sxv25's should I take? 1x squad of 3,5? Or 2xof 3,4?

Edited February 13, 2022 by Triszin

[chapter master 454]

I have been having a little play around and realised, you could have 3 melee commanders running around if you go far sight enclave. FarSight + Onager Commander (with precision) + Proto-Flamer Commander (with Ghost and Be'Gel Plate), you now have 3 commanders who can run around and do melee duty and you can very easily have a whole slew of crisis suits following them.

 

My only hope is there give the Y'Vahra and R'Varna some updating...these suits really need it...

(I mean, the R'Varna is something like 120 premium over 2 broadsides with HYMs which is what it competes with. Only have range really to speak for).

[Guest Triszin]

I'm still iffy on having multiple melee commanders?

I wonder if only 1 is enough.

 

 

-----

Here's a ghost star commander I've thought on

 

Coldstar

Ghost walks among us

Solid image projection

Hob

Dw 02 burst

Missile pod

Positional relay

2x shield

[Handsome Fred]

Tbh one of the best friend for fse in 9th will be the kroot sharper with the pen. 25 points for a cp refounder are a steal

[chapter master 454]

Tbh one of the best friend for fse in 9th will be the kroot sharper with the pen. 25 points for a cp refounder are a steal

 

I mean, that is straight disgusting looking at that. However that being said HQ choices are extremely good now, Cadres are quite valuable and I can easily say that if you are needing a PEN mule then I have to ask what you are doing. Not saying you can't but still.

 

However that being said about FSE, I wonder if a common build for them might actually being a Double Patrol build so they can get 4 commanders on the board regardless. I mean, if you want to try and bring the 8 back in a fun list you could do triple patrol to achieve it (since O'Vesa is a Riptide and Ob is a broadside). However double seems reasonable, 2 CP so you can bring more commanders. I mean, with how good Crisis teams are now you could get into some real odd ball list building with them in terms of just knocking out a bunch of crisis teams.

 

I mean...come on. 4 Commanders isn't anything to sneeze at...there is a fine reason why we can't make Custom septs with FSE being a "parent" aspect! To be honest, that would likely make Custom Septs a bit more appealing personally. Busted maybe but Etherals are now legit leaders who themselves can generate CP. I mean, if you want a CP regenerator then Aun'Shi is pretty good, his WLT he has to take is a CP regenerator. And he is a melee beefcake too. Look, we can't just say we aren't getting into fighting. We are getting into fighting words range ok, Mont'Ka is closest target and 12" at turn 2 and Kauyon is 12" flat, if we talking boosts and combos we can't be talking planet bowling ball at Basalisk range ok. We have the means and methods to compensate for being charged and not like every unit we get charged by will be a maxed out genestealer squad or full power custodes.

 

Besides, with how small boards are, objectives work and terrain layouts we can't honestly dismiss the fact that having melee power in our faction on units normally considered "not melee" is quite useful.

So for the Greater Good, punch some Gue'La in the face!

 

Edit:

Also, real talk: the savages with Tau on the GW store. Things are going out of stock left and right. Started with Hammerheads and now everything else is going. Savages! These Gue'La have no honour!

Edited February 15, 2022 by chapter master 454

[AenarIT]

Also, real talk: the savages with Tau on the GW store. Things are going out of stock left and right. Started with Hammerheads and now everything else is going. Savages! These Gue'La have no honour!

You better stock up before prices go up :P

[Handsome Fred]

 

Tbh one of the best friend for fse in 9th will be the kroot sharper with the pen. 25 points for a cp refounder are a steal

 

I mean, that is straight disgusting looking at that. However that being said HQ choices are extremely good now, Cadres are quite valuable and I can easily say that if you are needing a PEN mule then I have to ask what you are doing. Not saying you can't but still.

 

 

Heresy? Yes

Gamewise? The best solution.

Fireblade isn't cheap and in fse you dont need more than 4-5 markers, and with the same points you can place marker drones, our commanders has better relics than the pen like the flamer or the relic shield.

So the kroot is the best way for a cheap cp refound :D

[Hfran Morkai]

I'm planning on picking up a Codex in a few minutes if the LGS has one.

[depthcharge12]

Here are my thoughts on what is going to get changed after spot 1 & 2 were taken by Tau players at Beachhead Bash GT:

 

- Both lists took multiple detachments

- both lists took 3x broadsides (spot 1 took 2x3)

- both lists took Ethereal with sense of stone and CP generator

- both lists took 2x5 crisis suit units, usually one for “light infantry” and another for harder targets

- CIB/flamer/PR was the prevailing loadout

 

 

From this, I think we can see where the eventual GW balance will come from. Here are my predictions:

 

- crisis suit points bump by 5 maybe 10 a model

- ethereal points bump

- loss of CORE on broadsides

- HRR and HYMP will switch places, with the rails taking a points bump

- **here’s one out of left field, but I’m thinking drones might get a points increase

 

 

No stormsurges showed up in either list, and longstrike was the only hammerhead. Eat your heart out Tau whiners :P