SoT book 7: Echoes of Eternity - Aaron Dembski-Bowden

[Bobss]

Going to throw some stuff out here:

 

- Who do you think the POV characters will be? Sang? Zephon? Diocletian? Land? Those Wolves ADB has on Terra? Lotara? Sigismund? The Tarot Squad? Loken/Keeler/Sindermann? What new POV characters do you predict?

 

- I think this book will tie into all of ADB's previous Horus Heresy entries in both big and small ways. In the same way Betrayer was sort of a sequel to The First Heretic, I expect Echoes of Eternity to somewhat mirror The Master of Mankind as this apocalyptic, empire-defining battle, but in this case fought on the surface of Terra instead of its dungeons. As incredible as TMOM was, I thought it went a little too hard with the whole 'After the loss of the Imperial Webway, the Emperor's dreams and plans are now in ruins and humanity has irreversibly missed its one and only bus to kickstart the next evolutionary step. All that remains is a never-ending struggle against the dying of the light.' That's cool, but it also slightly diminishes the Siege of Terra if I'm being perfectly honest - so I'm interested to see how ADB stylises the Siege and its place within the Imperium's history

 

- I also expect little Easter eggs, just as Aquilon and the Legio Audax were mentioned and/or appeared in TMOM

 

- I think this book will go heavy with its themes. 'Echoes of Eternity' is the first grandiose title of any SOT book. That isn't to say the others are bad, but they tended to be strategic or symbolic or representative of a character or faction. Echoes of Eternity is representative of a moment. What we do in life echoes in eternity. Doesn't that sound familiar? But it's true, Sang's angelic stand against a tide of darkness is a moment that reverberates throughout everything: Imperial history, Space Marine history, Horus Heresy history, the fandom's history. This is the origins of the Sanguinala; it's a monumentally defining moment of the Imperium's history and of 40k's lore

 

- Forum-goers have always known that ADB wants to cover the Bagels and their successors. He's had a few bits here and there, such as Soul Hunter, Ragnar. and TMOM, but this is his first (and perhaps only ever) chance to really dig into them and their Legion culture. Will ADB whisk us away from the battlefield of the Inner Sanctum to the hot Baal suns? To the Great Crusade? To Signus? His keys are sweaty, slippers warm, arms are heavy, there's soup on his sweater already, Dan's Zoom spaghetti. Go get them, Aaron. Abnett and Wraight might be better wordsmiths, strictly speaking and in my opinion, but it's time you reminded people why you ruled the 2010s. Knock this out of the park my dude

 

- How much attention will certain factions receive proportionally? Sang and his boys? The Custodes on the Delphic Battlement? Angron's rampage? The fleet in orbit? Dorn defending Bhab? Personally, I can't fooking wait to see the Bhab get trashed by rampaging Traitors - it will seem almost unreal in comparison to The Solar War where Dorn and Su-Kassen were giving orders and fighting holograms of forces millions of miles away

 

- Will Sang duel Ka'Bandha or Angron or both? The blurb doesn't mention the Bloodthirster, but Angron instead, interestingly... Power-level talk is about as fun as eating the wrong part of a pineapple, but you've got to think about it. I still remember the sh1tshow when Aurelian dropped and Lorgar took it bigly to one of Khorne's main troops, and let's not forget Lorgar's own lines in Betrayer. A celebration of war, young chums, the Angelbowl. It's come at last!

 

- Following on from that, I can't wait for ADB's Damnedgron. You remember him from The Emperor's Gift? With a bodyguard of Bloodthristers and so much pure, concentrated warp corruption that is rains blood, spits lightning, the very earth cracks and the defenders wade through mud-blood sludge? The book where people half a continent away start chewing off their fingers and daubing blasphemous sigils everywhere because their mortal minds can't handle it? The monster that shattered Lhorke in one hit, killed hundreds of World Eaters to be restrained and turned several decks of the Conqueror to flesh with its mere presence? Yeah, that rings differently to Angron being stuck in Perty's labyrinth like a big, dopey woolly mammoth or having troops shoot at him with lasguns for the Gram

 

- Will the timetable for Guilliman's vanguard be accelerated? Will the Ultramarines break into the Solar System in this book? I get the feeling they will. Angron is the last of Horus' generals now and the Traitors are running on fumes (compared to the days Horus was making ready to teleport to Terra for his victory lap). The Smurfs turning up would be the straw that breaks the camel's void shields

 

- What's Loken doing? Loken vs Abby? I think it could be done well if it's done at all, but frankly I don't want to see Abaddon again until he's cutting his way through to Horus' hollow corpse

 

- What's Keeler's fate in all of this - or will it be left to Abnett, fittingly? What about the biohazard dude? Sindermann?

 

- Where will the book conclude? The formation of the Emperor's strike team? Big E getting off the Golden Throne funnily enough pairs up with the climax of TMOM, where he is temporarily enthroned. Imagine the cramps...

 

- Will the Tarot squad approach the Emperor at this juncture? What will ADB do with Actaea now he's finally got the chance?

 

- I'm also looking forward to ADB's phrasings just regarding the sheer scale of warfare taking place. French nailed it, in his own mechanical way, in TSW. Thorpe envisioned it, in a more mathematical and tabletop-y way, in The First Wall. Abnett described it through a confusing myriad of geographical locations and sub-locations in Saturnine. Wraight portrayed it unsurprisingly beautifully through his typical literary brilliance in Warhawk. Now it's the turn of the man many once regarded as the Warmaster of BL; favoured son to Abnett's Emperor

 

HH saturation is real, BL seems to be slowing down, and I secretly wonder if this hobby is undergoing a big crunch, but nevertheless the old adage remains true: all men must hype

Edited April 29, 2022 by Bobss

[MarineRaider]

I think that last sentence is very real. After reading Throne of Light something dawned on me that isn't a spoiler as it seems to be in all of the new books....the New Man is being born in the Imperium. Not in the manner the E wanted but out of the actions of Chaos. It reminds me of what the E says in MoM when explaining why he cannot see every nuance of the future...he saw the New Man but how he wanted it to be reached with the web way etc didn't happen but happening it is.

 

Again, I don't play the board game but I imagine this could take the setting in a new direction, provide a spark for all concerned armies if after this story is concluded. I know many want the payback series of chasing down the traitors to the eye, I'm not really one of them as I sort of know the outcome. I would like to see 43k or pre-Unity stories. 

 

HOWEVER...I have read 100's of these books and stories and am owed 2-3 of the best books ever to close this chapter of my own life that started with Book 5 Legion.

[phandaal]

HH saturation is real, BL seems to be slowing down, and I secretly wonder if this hobby is undergoing a big crunch, but nevertheless the old adage remains true: all men must hype

The trick of turning a game setting into a moving narrative. At some point the two will conflict.

 

Horus Heresy always had an end date. There are still plenty of stories that can happen afterwards though. Establishment of the new Imperium, settling of a thousand Space Marine Chapters on a thousand worlds, and lots more.

[Scribe]

The crunch, and really bordering on apathy on my part, is certainly coming to a head for me.

 

I really wanted this series to wrap this year, as unrealistic as that may be, and I'm just not sure that I want to put any more emotional investment into the game/setting after.

[MarineRaider]

The crunch, and really bordering on apathy on my part, is certainly coming to a head for me.

 

I really wanted this series to wrap this year, as unrealistic as that may be, and I'm just not sure that I want to put any more emotional investment into the game/setting after.

Hi

 

I read some of your replies in the Throne of Light thread and have a question as it relates to this book. I assume you play the board game, which drives you more, the game or the books? I honestly would like to know of anyone since I do not play the game ( I did play the turn based PC game) do the novels affect game play or the rules? I do not want to assume but it seems like you are really opposed to the E returning...is that because he would be a powerful or unbeatable piece of the board? 

 

This whole " grim dark" thing you hold onto is pretty apparent in the Siege books but the human spirit is always going to hope for a better tomorrow, even grim dark cannot extinguish it. In book 7 of the SOT we see that constantly fighting against that and imagine Book 8 will test it further.

 

Thanks for your time. I too would love for the SOT to conclude this year but not going to happen sadly.

[Scribe]

 

The crunch, and really bordering on apathy on my part, is certainly coming to a head for me.

 

I really wanted this series to wrap this year, as unrealistic as that may be, and I'm just not sure that I want to put any more emotional investment into the game/setting after.

Hi

 

I read some of your replies in the Throne of Light thread and have a question as it relates to this book. I assume you play the board game, which drives you more, the game or the books? I honestly would like to know of anyone since I do not play the game ( I did play the turn based PC game) do the novels affect game play or the rules? I do not want to assume but it seems like you are really opposed to the E returning...is that because he would be a powerful or unbeatable piece of the board? 

 

This whole " grim dark" thing you hold onto is pretty apparent in the Siege books but the human spirit is always going to hope for a better tomorrow, even grim dark cannot extinguish it. In book 7 of the SOT we see that constantly fighting against that and imagine Book 8 will test it further.

 

Thanks for your time. I too would love for the SOT to conclude this year but not going to happen sadly.

 

 

Kind of...neither?

 

To me, the setting exists. It is a static thing, and we are 1 minute to midnight. There is no coming back for Humanity, this is the end, and how the stories, characters, and we, navigate that fact, is the appeal to me.

 

The game itself doesnt care about that. Each battle is an isolated rolling of dice.

The novels dont need to care about that either, each story can (and should) remain a self contained event. Yes you can have character arcs, yes you can have individual change and growth, but in the final review? Nothing changes for the better.

 

Look at Talos and First Claw. Look at what eventually (likely) happened to Septimus and Octavia, and (likely) their child. Thats how the setting is reinforced.

 

To me, the setting is sacrosanct, and anything that would change the way the setting has been presented for the last quarter century, should be deleted, shredded, and fired into the sun.

 

Game balance isnt the issue. The tone, the spirit of the setting, is all.

[Bobss]

Hoping Angron uses the Black Blade in this seeing how its creation is referenced in Betrayer and, funnily enough, its destruction is seen in The Emperor's Gift

[Ubiquitous1984]

Is anyone else surprised that we didn’t get further detail on this book in the Warhammer Fest?  With three new 30k books announced, it felt like a no-brainier that the event would showcase this book.  I was really hoping for a release date for the LE by now.  

[MarineRaider]

 

 

The crunch, and really bordering on apathy on my part, is certainly coming to a head for me.

 

I really wanted this series to wrap this year, as unrealistic as that may be, and I'm just not sure that I want to put any more emotional investment into the game/setting after.

Hi

 

I read some of your replies in the Throne of Light thread and have a question as it relates to this book. I assume you play the board game, which drives you more, the game or the books? I honestly would like to know of anyone since I do not play the game ( I did play the turn based PC game) do the novels affect game play or the rules? I do not want to assume but it seems like you are really opposed to the E returning...is that because he would be a powerful or unbeatable piece of the board? 

 

This whole " grim dark" thing you hold onto is pretty apparent in the Siege books but the human spirit is always going to hope for a better tomorrow, even grim dark cannot extinguish it. In book 7 of the SOT we see that constantly fighting against that and imagine Book 8 will test it further.

 

Thanks for your time. I too would love for the SOT to conclude this year but not going to happen sadly.

 

 

Kind of...neither?

 

To me, the setting exists. It is a static thing, and we are 1 minute to midnight. There is no coming back for Humanity, this is the end, and how the stories, characters, and we, navigate that fact, is the appeal to me.

 

The game itself doesnt care about that. Each battle is an isolated rolling of dice.

The novels dont need to care about that either, each story can (and should) remain a self contained event. Yes you can have character arcs, yes you can have individual change and growth, but in the final review? Nothing changes for the better.

 

Look at Talos and First Claw. Look at what eventually (likely) happened to Septimus and Octavia, and (likely) their child. Thats how the setting is reinforced.

 

To me, the setting is sacrosanct, and anything that would change the way the setting has been presented for the last quarter century, should be deleted, shredded, and fired into the sun.

 

Game balance isnt the issue. The tone, the spirit of the setting, is all.

 

Thank you.

 

I understand your argument. One could make that argument across a spectrum of IP ranging from Star Wars to Warhammer, what was 25, 30 or more years ago is changing. Some good and some obviously detrimental depending on who you ask. I am hoping this book and the next provides some hope setting up what will be 43k and a rebirth of the E , return of loyal Primarchs and provides humanity a fighting chance against all odds. 

 

Don't worry though I am sure there will be plenty disappoint and please everyone in this and the final book(s)...it is BL after all .

[Scribe]

 

 

 

The crunch, and really bordering on apathy on my part, is certainly coming to a head for me.

 

I really wanted this series to wrap this year, as unrealistic as that may be, and I'm just not sure that I want to put any more emotional investment into the game/setting after.

Hi

 

I read some of your replies in the Throne of Light thread and have a question as it relates to this book. I assume you play the board game, which drives you more, the game or the books? I honestly would like to know of anyone since I do not play the game ( I did play the turn based PC game) do the novels affect game play or the rules? I do not want to assume but it seems like you are really opposed to the E returning...is that because he would be a powerful or unbeatable piece of the board? 

 

This whole " grim dark" thing you hold onto is pretty apparent in the Siege books but the human spirit is always going to hope for a better tomorrow, even grim dark cannot extinguish it. In book 7 of the SOT we see that constantly fighting against that and imagine Book 8 will test it further.

 

Thanks for your time. I too would love for the SOT to conclude this year but not going to happen sadly.

 

 

Kind of...neither?

 

To me, the setting exists. It is a static thing, and we are 1 minute to midnight. There is no coming back for Humanity, this is the end, and how the stories, characters, and we, navigate that fact, is the appeal to me.

 

The game itself doesnt care about that. Each battle is an isolated rolling of dice.

The novels dont need to care about that either, each story can (and should) remain a self contained event. Yes you can have character arcs, yes you can have individual change and growth, but in the final review? Nothing changes for the better.

 

Look at Talos and First Claw. Look at what eventually (likely) happened to Septimus and Octavia, and (likely) their child. Thats how the setting is reinforced.

 

To me, the setting is sacrosanct, and anything that would change the way the setting has been presented for the last quarter century, should be deleted, shredded, and fired into the sun.

 

Game balance isnt the issue. The tone, the spirit of the setting, is all.

 

Thank you.

 

I understand your argument. One could make that argument across a spectrum of IP ranging from Star Wars to Warhammer, what was 25, 30 or more years ago is changing. Some good and some obviously detrimental depending on who you ask. I am hoping this book and the next provides some hope setting up what will be 43k and a rebirth of the E , return of loyal Primarchs and provides humanity a fighting chance against all odds. 

 

Don't worry though I am sure there will be plenty disappoint and please everyone in this and the final book(s)...it is BL after all .

 

 

Yes, and I cannot think of a single IP I have cared about, that has changed for the better in the last 10-15 years.

 

What you are hoping for, is essentially, quite literally 'the essential', changing everything the setting has been about, to the point it no longer is 40K and I'd walk away without a second thought after pitching/burning/selling, everything GW I have.

[Fire Golem]

Is anyone else surprised that we didn’t get further detail on this book in the Warhammer Fest? With three new 30k books announced, it felt like a no-brainier that the event would showcase this book. I was really hoping for a release date for the LE by now.

They don’t give release dates when they reveal stuff and they’ve already revealed the book, I dunno what else there really is for them to show until it does get a release date.

[Bobss]

Is anyone else surprised that we didn’t get further detail on this book in the Warhammer Fest?  With three new 30k books announced, it felt like a no-brainier that the event would showcase this book.  I was really hoping for a release date for the LE by now.  

 

Here's hoping for a simultaneous release in September!

[Taliesin]

Is anyone else surprised that we didn’t get further detail on this book in the Warhammer Fest?  With three new 30k books announced, it felt like a no-brainier that the event would showcase this book.  I was really hoping for a release date for the LE by now.  

 

Yes , I was expecting something on this too.

The silence means we are either in for a surprise LE release this month or next......or they really wont release anything till September.

[DukeLeto69]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The crunch, and really bordering on apathy on my part, is certainly coming to a head for me.

 

I really wanted this series to wrap this year, as unrealistic as that may be, and I'm just not sure that I want to put any more emotional investment into the game/setting after.

Hi

 

I read some of your replies in the Throne of Light thread and have a question as it relates to this book. I assume you play the board game, which drives you more, the game or the books? I honestly would like to know of anyone since I do not play the game ( I did play the turn based PC game) do the novels affect game play or the rules? I do not want to assume but it seems like you are really opposed to the E returning...is that because he would be a powerful or unbeatable piece of the board?

 

This whole " grim dark" thing you hold onto is pretty apparent in the Siege books but the human spirit is always going to hope for a better tomorrow, even grim dark cannot extinguish it. In book 7 of the SOT we see that constantly fighting against that and imagine Book 8 will test it further.

 

Thanks for your time. I too would love for the SOT to conclude this year but not going to happen sadly.

Kind of...neither?

 

To me, the setting exists. It is a static thing, and we are 1 minute to midnight. There is no coming back for Humanity, this is the end, and how the stories, characters, and we, navigate that fact, is the appeal to me.

 

The game itself doesnt care about that. Each battle is an isolated rolling of dice.

The novels dont need to care about that either, each story can (and should) remain a self contained event. Yes you can have character arcs, yes you can have individual change and growth, but in the final review? Nothing changes for the better.

 

Look at Talos and First Claw. Look at what eventually (likely) happened to Septimus and Octavia, and (likely) their child. Thats how the setting is reinforced.

 

To me, the setting is sacrosanct, and anything that would change the way the setting has been presented for the last quarter century, should be deleted, shredded, and fired into the sun.

 

Game balance isnt the issue. The tone, the spirit of the setting, is all.

Thank you.

 

I understand your argument. One could make that argument across a spectrum of IP ranging from Star Wars to Warhammer, what was 25, 30 or more years ago is changing. Some good and some obviously detrimental depending on who you ask. I am hoping this book and the next provides some hope setting up what will be 43k and a rebirth of the E , return of loyal Primarchs and provides humanity a fighting chance against all odds.

 

Don't worry though I am sure there will be plenty disappoint and please everyone in this and the final book(s)...it is BL after all .

Yes, and I cannot think of a single IP I have cared about, that has changed for the better in the last 10-15 years.

 

What you are hoping for, is essentially, quite literally 'the essential', changing everything the setting has been about, to the point it no longer is 40K and I'd walk away without a second thought after pitching/burning/selling, everything GW I have.

@Scribe much as I respect and sympathise with your view, clearly I disagree on the static/sandbox setting vs advancing narrative setting. I fear, for you, it is moving back towards the latter after, as you say, twenty+ years of being static.

 

I get you love the nihilism of the permanently fixed at 2 mins to midnight but IMO it has actually made the setting stale and pointless (perhaps the pointlessness is the appeal for you “you will not be missed”).

 

From a GW pov this makes commercial sense to have a setting with some narrative progression. They want to sell kit. They need to release new kit everyone wants to buy. But if the setting is static, where did this new kit come from and why wasn’t it there before?

 

As an aside - For the new edition of HH they have released a new tank (which is pretty sweet) but the blurb already says “extremely rare in 40k”.

 

It seems really sad to me that you would just walk away from something you have loved so much rather than simply head cannon it!

Edited May 10, 2022 by DukeLeto69

[nagashnee]

Head cannon is not a solution, its  a patch for small things, the occasional piece of lore or weird miniature, but ultimatly if the setting changes drastically it is to be expected that some of the fans of the old style/lore/minis will be lost along the way.  No amount of head cannon is going change the new 'theme' of 40k as a living setting. 

 

I think the HUGE issue with GW and having a living story is their utter utter terror of killing anyone/anything off, leaving hilarious situations like every special marine character surviving the 200 year time jump AND all the rubicon primaris. No head cannon is going to change the fact that being a marine is simple not very dangerous, heck being anyone with a mini is not really dangerous. Neither are they dangerous to one another. Same goes for named planets, sectors etc. Even when they kinda go this way ( Ragnar vs Ghaz) no one stays dead.   But we are getting really off topic.

 

GW is I fear not capable of supporting a living breathing 40k setting. Hence why i will always vote for static setting, with them exploring the timeline.

Edited May 10, 2022 by nagashnee

[phandaal]

Cannot think of a recent franchise that has actually expanded after drastically changing the status quo. Star Wars, Star Trek, and Doctor Who come to mind. The people running those franchises must have thought they were improving on a stale universe, but what came out of the changes was a fraction of what came before. We are seeing it one more time with Lord of the Rings apparently becoming Game of Thrones.

 

Sometimes a "stable" franchise is that way for a reason. Some things endure because the concepts are already good. 40k stayed at the top of the mountain for decades with a setting that barely changed.

 

Back to the topic of HH and SoT, in light of recent years I can see the appeal of a setting where the potential for drastic change is curtailed.

[nagashnee]

Star Wars is a great comparison, as the biggest hit outside ( and even including ) the films era wise was the Old Republic, a totally new setting in the same universe where everything felt fresh. And it was thousands of years in the past.  No risk of people not looking what you did with anything because everything SHOULD be different and not tied to what you know yet still have the vague outline you know and love. 

[Scribe]

Star Wars is a great comparison, as the biggest hit outside ( and even including ) the films era wise was the Old Republic, a totally new setting in the same universe where everything felt fresh. And it was thousands of years in the past. No risk of people not looking what you did with anything because everything SHOULD be different and not tied to what you know yet still have the vague outline you know and love.

Much like the Heresy.

[Scribe]

@Scribe much as I respect and sympathise with your view, clearly I disagree on the static/sandbox setting vs advancing narrative setting. I fear, for you, it is moving back towards the latter after, as you say, twenty+ years of being static.

 

I get you love the nihilism of the permanently fixed at 2 mins to midnight but IMO it has actually made the setting stale and pointless (perhaps the pointlessness is the appeal for you “you will not be missed”).

 

From a GW pov this makes commercial sense to have a setting with some narrative progression. They want to sell kit. They need to release new kit everyone wants to buy. But if the setting is static, where did this new kit come from and why wasn’t it there before?

 

As an aside - For the new edition of HH they have released a new tank (which is pretty sweet) but the blurb already says “extremely rare in 40k”.

 

It seems really sad to me that you would just walk away from something you have loved so much rather than simply head cannon it!

There are limits to head canon. I've already passed over or just ignore things.

 

The main issue isn't even one of setting advancement. It's maintaining the tone, the soul of the IP.

 

Yes the nihilism is part of it, but what IP is like 40K? Yeah sure GW borrowed (ahem) many things over the decades, but today's 40K, is a thing. It has an essence.

 

The potential changes coming down the pipe stand in opposition to that.

 

You can't head canon that.

[nagashnee]

 

Star Wars is a great comparison, as the biggest hit outside ( and even including ) the films era wise was the Old Republic, a totally new setting in the same universe where everything felt fresh. And it was thousands of years in the past. No risk of people not looking what you did with anything because everything SHOULD be different and not tied to what you know yet still have the vague outline you know and love.

Much like the Heresy.

 

Yes and no. Yes in that it goes back to the big bad mythos wars (sith vs jedi on a galactic level, full on jedi order etc), but no in that KOTOR did not have anyone that get ported over between eras.

 

More and more modern 40k is becoming a mini 30k, with primarchs, huge marine formations and ongoing crusade taking the centre stage, its one of my main issues with the 'new' 40k lore. None of it is actually new.  Someone unite terra check, unleashes huge numbers of brand new type of super warrior check, divides his forces up in crusades that push outwards and onwards to re unite what was lost hella check ( yes i used hella sue me). Likewise one of the main failures of most of the 30k novels in my view is their need to TIE EVERYTHING TO 40K. 

 

For all its faults ( many many faults) the Beast Arises Series was a much better attempt to tell a fresh story, in a fresh part of the timeline, while throwing in some strong 40k ties. 

[Scribe]

More and more modern 40k is becoming a mini 30k, with primarchs, huge marine formations and ongoing crusade taking the centre stage, its one of my main issues with the 'new' 40k lore. None of it is actually new. Someone unite terra check, unleashes huge numbers of brand new type of super warrior check, divides his forces up in crusades that push outwards and onwards to re unite what was lost hella check ( yes i used hella sue me). Likewise one of the main failures of most of the 30k novels in my view is their need to TIE EVERYTHING TO 40K.

No argument there. It's one of the things I mostly ignore, but it has increased my detachment from 40K of late, and it kind of bleeds both ways.

 

30K is, by the end of the Heresy if you squint, close enough with the benefit of not having new advancement. No Primaris, no Cawl, Primarchs are not uniting anything, it's all falling apart.

 

This is why I hope they can conclude the series without any 'grand revelations' that would undermine the settings fundamental truth, because at that point you have a '40K' that is safe from being ruined.

[MarineRaider]

Back to this novel. 

 

Where do you guys think it will end? Do we know if the final book is still going to be two or just one grand one? If the later then perhaps this could conclude at Christmas 2022.

 

I am curious of the perpetual John with his new weapon will be used.

[Scribe]

Back to this novel. 

 

Where do you guys think it will end? Do we know if the final book is still going to be two or just one grand one? If the later then perhaps this could conclude at Christmas 2022.

 

I am curious of the perpetual John with his new weapon will be used.

 

Death of Sanguinius certainly 'Echoes' down eternity.

 

Then again if Abnett is somehow writing 2 books for the 'end' I cannot see how we can get even that far here. This book may end on the cliff hanger of the Emperor about to leave the Throne and go to die.

 

So the climax would be, Sanguinius holding the Eternity Gate? Which also play's nicely with the title.

 

I still cant imagine how Abnett fluffs out the final plot points into 2 books...

[Bobss]

Back to this novel. 

 

Where do you guys think it will end? Do we know if the final book is still going to be two or just one grand one? If the later then perhaps this could conclude at Christmas 2022.

 

I am curious of the perpetual John with his new weapon will be used.

 

I believe the final book will be set almost completely on board the Vengeful Spirit and will end with the Emperor's entombment. I don't even think we'll get particularly much on the traitors rout other than a few footnotes about the Bagels going berserk and whatnot. Horus will be dead, both Angron and Mortarion will be banished, Fulgrim will clear off, Perturabo has already left, Lorgar isn't there, Curze was never there and Alpharius/Omegon are Alpharius/Omegon. I would also wager the final book will be different POVs fighting their way through the ship

 

I have a feeling Echoes. will be split into three main theatres: the defence of the Eternity Gate, the Defence of Bhab Bastion, the Defence of the Tower of Hegemon, and there will be the odd bit on the Tarot Squad, Loken & Keeler and maybe the space theatre if ADB reuses Lotara at some point, like maybe a ''oh hey the Ultramarines have just rocked up.''

 

Part of me wouldn't be surprised if the book ends with the teleport going wrong and Abnett picks up the pieces...

[Scribe]

 

Back to this novel. 

 

Where do you guys think it will end? Do we know if the final book is still going to be two or just one grand one? If the later then perhaps this could conclude at Christmas 2022.

 

I am curious of the perpetual John with his new weapon will be used.

 

I believe the final book will be set almost completely on board the Vengeful Spirit and will end with the Emperor's entombment. I don't even think we'll get particularly much on the traitors rout other than a few footnotes about the Bagels going berserk and whatnot. Horus will be dead, both Angron and Mortarion will be banished, Fulgrim will clear off, Perturabo has already left, Lorgar isn't there, Curze was never there and Alpharius/Omegon are Alpharius/Omegon. I would also wager the final book will be different POVs fighting their way through the ship

 

I have a feeling Echoes. will be split into three main theatres: the defence of the Eternity Gate, the Defence of Bhab Bastion, the Defence of the Tower of Hegemon, and there will be the odd bit on the Tarot Squad, Loken & Keeler and maybe the space theatre if ADB reuses Lotara at some point, like maybe a ''oh hey the Ultramarines have just rocked up.''

 

Part of me wouldn't be surprised if the book ends with the teleport going wrong and Abnett picks up the pieces...

 

 

Good call all around. I thought Angron walked off, but I can see that changing.

 

I legit feel existential dread, at the thought of them ruining the last books of the series. I shouldnt, I'm a grown ass old man, but a majority of my life is tied up in this setting/IP/series, and so here we are...