Unit of the Week: Magnus the Red

[Xenith]

++Thousand Sons Unit of the Week++

++Magnus the Red++

New codex, new discussions about units! As we already have in other faction sections, this is the Thousand Sons Unit of the Week series, where each week we select and dissect a datasheet found in the book, and discuss how we use the unit in-game, favoured loadouts and combos, essentially how to use these units best. What have you found that works, and what doesnt? Please try to stick to the idea of making the unit in question work, as opposed to pointing out other units that might do a better job - we'll get to those in time!

This week, we will be discussing Magnus the Red - the big bad overfiend of the Thousand Sons Legion. Clocking in at almost 500pts, this behemoth is a psychic powerhouse, however not seen on the table too often.

Have you been using them in games, and how have you used them? Th Mauler fists in particular have great damage potential at D3+3, and with a move of 10", the fiend is capable of getting into combat.

What are you thoughts, and how best would you use the unit?

• To compliment a list, or to build a list around?
  
• Will you be running multiples?
  
• What <GREAT CULT>, loadouts, spell relic and Stratagem support do you prefer and how much does it depend on the above choices?
  
• Are you buffing this unit, and if so, how?
  
• Are you building as a damage dealer or buff-provider?
  
• Uses in Matched, Narrative and Open Play
  
• How have they fared for you in-game?
  

Over to you.

++Thousand Sons Unit of the Week Index Link++

[Xenith]

With a mighty +3 to cast as max wounds, with a reroll, he's really reliably going to be getting those super smites for average 6 mortals. Chuck malevolent on there and you push that up to 8 (almost as good as a single rail gun...).

 

Defensively, T7 is a bit weak, even with a 4++ and -1d. boltguns are wounding you on 5's, or 4+ with a VOTLW equivalent. Combined with his hue size, magnus seems an easy target - so maybe run him with other distractions like teleporting SOT's or helldrakes?

[Tichinde]

I've tried him in two out of my 3 games.

 

1st Game Vs Space Wolves, the entire army fired at him (at least 2 redemptors, volCon, long fangs/meltas, assorted marines) and eventually took him down. but they didn't shoot anything else that turn :-)

 

2nd game against crusher stampede, they didn't really focus him down and he was able to get into combat and start deleting things (carnifex's) its nice having the flexibility to cast any power but I'm still getting used to working out optimal casting order! (although when his super smite goes off its great)

 

casting some of the defensive buff spells can help and the wound regen abilities/spells but he will get focused down. he eventually was killed by an exploding Exocrine...

 

If I was to take him competitively I'd seriously consider putting him in reserves, it eats up a lot of already precious CP. and keeps him out of the game for a turn or too but I think it could be worth it. I might try taking some bigger units or distractions with him next time to see if it helps, but most armies will recognise the threat and try and focus him down early.

[Paladin777]

I don't have any personal experience running him in 9th, but I'd imagine running a couple maulerfiends with lasher tendrils (to make them a threat for all targets) as DISTRACTION CARNEFEX's might go a decent way toward keeping him alive. Edited February 22, 2022 by Paladin777

[Brother Kraskor]

Had a thought the other day. I wonder if he would see more use if he also had access to all the Cult powers. I think you'd start seeing some lesser-used Cults getting some gametime if Magnus could have teleport & heal sorted!

[WarriorFish]

It would help give him more utility, I think the lack of discussion/use of him here says much though Given 9th only seems to have got more deadly since the original discussion I am starting to think it is just as well my Magnus sits awaiting his triumph as the final model in my Sons army... he might be a good pick by the time I get round to him

[Xenith]

Yea, all cult access would be great, really. He should have had it from the start. The "cant shoot characters" strat should also include him, but for 2cp. That would be ace, and in keeping with lore and the old Sekhmet cabal rules. 

[Ahzek451]

GW more or less shot themselves in the foot when they introduced these type of things. And to be fair, even if I was handed that magic wand to create his rules, I wouldn't touch that responsibility with a 10' pole. This game has always had to deal with suspending the abilities of certain units that would otherwise in the fluff be....OP. But its a sliding scale with D.Primarchs being on the far end of that scale. Personally, I think they need to do a deep dive and re-assessment on any unit that is a silent king, primarch, or equivilant. As I alluded to, the task of writing the rules for things like this is no doubt, difficult and daunting but I do think its possible to find a sweet spot with the right amount of attention and work. I don't think GW has done as good of a job as they could have to execute this. 

Having said all that, competitively I do not have a home for him. If I would to try, I can't see myself not spending the CP to have him fly on from a table edge depending on the matchup. Despite his access to the wonderful utility of spells, he does not provide the same utility as the Silent King does for competitive games. 

[Paladin777]

To be fair, I think they did a much better job with G. Man and Morty than Magnus as far as balance is concerned. Magnus is just far too fragile in this environment.

 

Or at least before Taustodes came along.

Edited March 28, 2022 by Paladin777

[Brother Kraskor]

Would T8 be enough? Or does he need a limit on how many wounds he can take per turn?

[Paladin777]

Would T8 be enough? Or does he need a limit on how many wounds he can take per turn?

I think either would likely do the trick. He doesn't need to be mortarion tough, nor should he be, but tough enough to last more than one round of shooting.

[Brother Kraskor]

 

Would T8 be enough? Or does he need a limit on how many wounds he can take per turn?

I think either would likely do the trick. He doesn't need to be mortarion tough, nor should he be, but tough enough to last more than one round of shooting.

 

 

Yeah unmodified bolters wounding him 1/3rd of the time. I guess he faces a similar problem to a lot of vehicles but with a much higher price tag.

[Skywrath]

With the AoC buffs, do we see Magnus still being competitive?

[Paladin777]

With the AoC buffs, do we see Magnus still being competitive?

Since his damage comes exclusively from MW and a -4 ap melee weapon, his damage output is probably going to be virtually unchanged by AoC.

 

He does benefit from it, but only against AP -1, because -2 drops him tongue invul anyway.

 

So ultimately I think it doesn't really matter to him much one was or another.

Edited May 11, 2022 by Paladin777

[Ahzek451]

Still a wonder why primarchs don't just have a 2+ armour. Most guns attempting to take down a primarch will at least have a-1ap. 

[Paladin777]

Still a wonder why primarchs don't just have a 2+ armour. Most guns attempting to take down a primarch will at least have a-1ap.

Magnus isn't exactly fully covered, but a 3+ on ol' Morty is kinda dumb.

[Ahzek451]

 

Still a wonder why primarchs don't just have a 2+ armour. Most guns attempting to take down a primarch will at least have a-1ap.

Magnus isn't exactly fully covered, but a 3+ on ol' Morty is kinda dumb.

An avatar (a broken god in many shards), enjoys a 2+ though.

[Paladin777]

 

 

Still a wonder why primarchs don't just have a 2+ armour. Most guns attempting to take down a primarch will at least have a-1ap.

Magnus isn't exactly fully covered, but a 3+ on ol' Morty is kinda dumb.

An avatar (a broken god in many shards), enjoys a 2+ though.

I didn't know it was at a 2+.

[Xenith]

 

 

Still a wonder why primarchs don't just have a 2+ armour. Most guns attempting to take down a primarch will at least have a-1ap.

Magnus isn't exactly fully covered, but a 3+ on ol' Morty is kinda dumb.

An avatar (a broken god in many shards), enjoys a 2+ though.

 

 

As his skin is metal? And is wearing armour on top of it. Still, models were detached from rules some time ago - phobos still provides a 3+ save despite less armour, and gravis is 3+ despite more.

 

Anyone used magnus since armour of contempt? That gives him an effective 2+ save, which might even the odds. 

[Ahzek451]

 

 

 

Still a wonder why primarchs don't just have a 2+ armour. Most guns attempting to take down a primarch will at least have a-1ap.

Magnus isn't exactly fully covered, but a 3+ on ol' Morty is kinda dumb.

An avatar (a broken god in many shards), enjoys a 2+ though.

 

 

As his skin is metal? And is wearing armour on top of it. Still, models were detached from rules some time ago - phobos still provides a 3+ save despite less armour, and gravis is 3+ despite more.

 

Anyone used magnus since armour of contempt? That gives him an effective 2+ save, which might even the odds. 

 

Aye, linking looks to rules never bodes well. The same could be said about daemon primarch skin being as good as metal. To a daemon, what is metal anyway? 

 

How is it a 2+?

AoC reduces ap, but magnus still takes a save on a 3+ on anything ap 0 to ap 1. AOC is essentially only good for ap1 weapons. 

Edited May 13, 2022 by Ahzek451

[Lucky_Lee]

Tbh I've long thought Magnus should heal 1 wound on every successful spellcast (Max 3). Just do that and keep everything else the same. Heck I'd almost take that over the -1 damage??

Edited May 13, 2022 by Xenoscry

[Ahzek451]

Tbh I've long thought Magnus should heal 1 wound on every successful spellcast (Max 3). Just do that and keep everything else the same. Heck I'd almost take that over the -1 damage??

That would be cool. 

 

When I think of defensive options, I immediately think about the time Magnus halted a lascannon shot, picked up a space wolf and released the shot through him. I would like to see something where once per enemy shooting phase, magnus can end a single weapon's ranged attack on a 3+ and cause d3 mortal wounds on the firing model. 

 

This would be fun to try. Fluffy, and something unique to magnus to help his defense. Sure, a tau railgun line with 3 hammerheads could still do major damage, but at least one of them has a change of not doing anything. 

[Xenith]

 

How is it a 2+?

AoC reduces ap, but magnus still takes a save on a 3+ on anything ap 0 to ap 1. AOC is essentially only good for ap1 weapons. 

 

 

I was thinking people wouldn't be shooting bolters at him, then I forgot T7... either way, bolters in tactical doctrine are AP-1 and generally any firepower coming at him will have some AP if they're trying to kill him, so the ignore one point of AP, is essentially the equivalent of +1Sv against any weapon with an AP value. 

Edited May 16, 2022 by Xenith

[WarriorFish]

If people are shooting AP0 weapons at Magnus things have either gone very right or very wrong? I thought of Magnus with AoC too, but as noted it's not a huge change in his fortunes as a wider change and one that doesn't resolve his main issues. My nefarious plan of taking so long to get him done rules have changed to improve him continues... :P

[Lucky_Lee]

Eating three CP to hide him in reserve can be risky but can pay dividends when you don't go first. Also what kinda bad guy would he be if he didn't make some kind of dramatic entrance??

Edited July 11, 2022 by Xenoscry
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