Whishlist for new SM Codex

[Medjugorje]

As rumors show up and many tournament results show that Marines are not that good anymore I want to ask what you want /dont want to see.

What are your hopes and what are your expectations.

[Slave to Darkness]

I just want Firstborn and Primaris split, then I wont have a book full of junk I dont need and will never look at. Then with the space saved in each codex they can put in the supplement rules to keep the page count (and naturally the price) up. 

[Toldavf]

A buff for all vehicles, and for those buffs to be applied to other codices in which they appear. 

Bolt weapons need to be looked at, buffing them is tough because 6+ armies use them. 

Make the godhammer pattern lascannon special.

Reavers need some love, a pip of ap on the blade would be a start and buffing the carbine in some way would be nice. 

 

Don't cut the options on squads down, they are going to heavily I think as the current direction is "if its not in the box you cant have it" with a few exceptions. (this will affect characters massively)

 

Heavy gravis was resilient at the start of 9th, now not so much. Most of these units will need a point drop.

 

Grenades get 2" of range because marines are good at throwing. 

 

Storm speeders seem over priced. 

 

Fixed size units like outriders, eliminators and suppressors need to be increased slightly. max 5 seem strong but fair.  

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

My hope is that the fixes are presented in supplements. GW has this fascination with pulling as many levers as possible when they update things, and it has to stop somewhere if they want this to be a competitive game. There also should be some pretty big point shifts. Just compare a falcon with an Impulsor, its around 20 points more than the shield version. For those 20 points you lose the 5++, but gain a wound, extra movement, a 2 shot str 9 d3+3 damage weapon.... and the ability to deepstrike like a drop pod. Granted the falcon is a heavy support choice but you can't tell me that they aren't aware of how much better of unit it is. This isn't something I should have them to pay for them to fix, if they want to act like this is a competitive game. honestly if they were treating it like a beer & pretzel game still, I wouldn't care, but that isn't the direction they've gone in. 

 

My expectation is that we get a campaign supplement with new units, updated fraction supplements for the 8th edition releases, and a version 2 codex with the rules from the campaign supplement in it for new players. I don't expect marines to get fixed, that will wait for next summer when 10th comes out. Granted some of the new HH units will probably be in 40k, and the next wave of primaris may have some broken things in it, that may change the tournament results for the better. 

 

On the plus side the new tempest of war cards look good for casual play. So I probably won't pay for an update any time soon. Hopefully they give us another survey so I can give them more feedback.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I want to see lots of big points reduction and new supplements for smurfs, iron hands, white scars, imperial fists, salamanders and ravenguard.

[Jace]

A big "use your imagination" and then non-stop grab-bag mix-and-match rules to save space on 27 supplements.

 

Might be a slight problem when the most broken unintended combinations are immediately recognised and abused but I wouldn't care

[Marshal Mittens]

Honestly outside of points cuts, I don't know how to fix 9e marines.

 

Everything is too killy. We are a low-medium damage army that's supposed to be tough with a T4/2w/3+ stat line, but everything has more str, more ap and more shots. Right now it's not that marines are too strong, it's that everything has too much power creep.

[Medjugorje]

I was more interested on a view from BT side.

 

- maybe a better CT?

- hopefully some combitnation will not go

- ...

[CrystalSeer]

Think mittens hit the nail on the head. Marines pay points for durability. That durability is functionally irrelevant as every army has a surplus of high AP damage 2+ weapons.

 

Only way to make the armor save relevant is to either increase durability or decrease weapons lethality. Option one takes one book, option 2 requires reworking the whole system.

 

If Marines had inbuilt transhuman or dr1 standard it would be a quick fix, but I have a hard time seeing it happening.

[Toldavf]

Think mittens hit the nail on the head. Marines pay points for durability. That durability is functionally irrelevant as every army has a surplus of high AP damage 2+ weapons.

 

Only way to make the armor save relevant is to either increase durability or decrease weapons lethality. Option one takes one book, option 2 requires reworking the whole system.

 

If Marines had inbuilt transhuman or dr1 standard it would be a quick fix, but I have a hard time seeing it happening.

It's a basic problem with Gw's design process. Instead of taking codex marines as a tool by which everything is measured (yard stick) they just released dex after dex that did what it wanted. 

[Medjugorje]

again - i was asking just about from a BT perspective. We can discuss it right in the Marine subforum . But for here I just want opinions about BT.

[redmapa]

I legitimately think that all this codex needs is a big points drop, specially on things like troops because I cant believe SM are paying almost 20pts per model on things that die pretty easily, they got 2Ws but most things shooting at them went up to 2 damage so I think Marines feel just as bad as they were before Primaris and 2Ws. I think the base strats are kind of lame too, they could use a rework but they arent so bad that I would shed a tear if they remained the same.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Geedub really screwed us hard with the ninth edition codex and then jacking up points even more. It’s a joke. The eldar Falcon costs less than an Impulsor.

[Toldavf]

Geedub really screwed us hard with the ninth edition codex and then jacking up points even more. It’s a joke. The eldar Falcon costs less than an Impulsor.

 

If you want to get extra salty compare a pyrovore to a heavy intercessor. sure they fill different roles but look at the disparity in stats and output.

[KnightofSigismund]

Maybe they’ll give us back advance and charge in the new marine book with our chapter tactic?

[CrystalSeer]

again - i was asking just about from a BT perspective. We can discuss it right in the Marine subforum . But for here I just want opinions about BT.

The way I see it, BT already have the closest fix. The inherent weakness, as far as it applies, comes from the cost/durability of the base book.

 

Comparing to generic codex, BT get mini transhuman and 5++ at no additional points cost. Then, you have multiple defensive upgrades you can add on top.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Our rules are really good. I think if you want A&C buy some white paint……

Edited March 29, 2022 by Black Blow Fly

[Helias_Tancred]

1. The remaining marine chapters get updated 9th edition material. 

 

2. Primaris terminators.

 

3. Reduction in points for marine vehicles, tanks, and flyers. 

 

4. Several more characters crossing the Rubicon Primaris and new models.

 

5. More customization options for certain primaris units such as intercessors and assault intercessors? Like what has been started with Black Templars. 

[Medjugorje]

My hopes:

 

cheap Impulsors

better rules to put normal infantry units faster (or more easy) into combat.

not superior shooting units because then BT lists will be strong in shooting.

[KnightofSigismund]

I do think our book is great, my only wishes for adjustments to our supplement would be cheaper sword brethren and power swords for crusaders squad initiates, it boggles my mind we can take 4 power fists but not swords and has a guy on the cover art with a power sword.

 

Codex wise I’d love aggressors to get some attention and make them more useful because I love the models, and cheaper vehicles so they don’t just sit in my display collecting dust.

 

Primaris drop pods would make me the happiest crusader on terra.

[Medjugorje]

Our supplement will not replaced soon.  But a new codex can have a much greater influence then our shift from Index to Supplement.

[Urkh]

I am a bit confused by this topic in general. You say "what do you want specifically in a new codex that would help our black templars", and then shut down a few ideas because it isn't what you feel would help us. Then you go on to say "not superior shooting, because we have strong shooting." Black Templars may have ok shooting without a mainline shooting buff, but realistically, wishing that shooting doesn't get buffed is just hurting chapters like IF, UM, IH, and so on.

 

The issue here is that if you're asking about changes to the normal space marine dex, any buffs are going to help the black templars, and also every other chapter. Since our problems stem from the overall lack of power in the general space marine dex, pretty much any buffs to it are going to help us be able to bring more varied lists. You say you want cheap impulsors, but yah, so does everyone. The changes that we would want to see are going to be the same as what all the chapters are going to want. The only things I can really think of that would actually match what you're looking for are changing our chapter tactic, our warlord trait, or adding in more "if this unit is from black templars" options.

 

Not trying to argue or anything, it just seems like you have a really specific idea of what you are asking for; even your own wish is still something that isn't just from a black templar perspective. So I'm just a bit confused as to how this thread should proceed without it being something that COULD just be in the normal space marine forum.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Great question Urkh, glad you asked it.

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

Our supplement will not replaced soon. But a new codex can have a much greater influence then our shift from Index to Supplement.

I think you should guard your expectations on this point. The codex will have a large impact but you want a specific set of buffs for your sub fraction. While I think that some chapters will benefit more than others I wouldn't expect the stronger sub-factions to see many changes at all.

[Medjugorje]

I am a bit confused by this topic in general. You say "what do you want specifically in a new codex that would help our black templars", and then shut down a few ideas because it isn't what you feel would help us. Then you go on to say "not superior shooting, because we have strong shooting." Black Templars may have ok shooting without a mainline shooting buff, but realistically, wishing that shooting doesn't get buffed is just hurting chapters like IF, UM, IH, and so on.

 

The issue here is that if you're asking about changes to the normal space marine dex, any buffs are going to help the black templars, and also every other chapter. Since our problems stem from the overall lack of power in the general space marine dex, pretty much any buffs to it are going to help us be able to bring more varied lists. You say you want cheap impulsors, but yah, so does everyone. The changes that we would want to see are going to be the same as what all the chapters are going to want. The only things I can really think of that would actually match what you're looking for are changing our chapter tactic, our warlord trait, or adding in more "if this unit is from black templars" options.

 

Not trying to argue or anything, it just seems like you have a really specific idea of what you are asking for; even your own wish is still something that isn't just from a black templar perspective. So I'm just a bit confused as to how this thread should proceed without it being something that COULD just be in the normal space marine forum.

 

I want to know what do you want(just from a BT perspective) to see.

What do you not want to happen.

 

I shutdown it because when people say they want supplements for X Y Z its not for BT. It doesnt have to do anything with BT. 

 

But to explain what my answer would be here:

 

- I want to codex more flexible to create much more buffs into the armylist before choosing CTs. 

- I want to see buffs that are not just improvements for datasheets but something which helps our uniqe units too. 

The new book as a toolbox to creat a much more different lists.

( for example -> new extrarules when armies are in doctrines. For example the codex gives you the option for your own chart of superdoctrines and the supplement-specific ones are an addition or another option for that. So that we receive anything as a melee as bonus for being in assault doctrine)

- I want to have a way better chapter tactic. 

- I want access to advance+charge - best way would be that all chapters could have access on it.

- It would be awesome if marines would not as dependend by our characters as since 8th edition - especially when you reach combat its so important for BT units being close to a character which provides you rerolls or the chapter master reroll. 

( for example: specific rule makes all units have +1 to hit in combat and so we dont need a character nearby and the characters can be used as fighter or buffing the more important units)

- I want to see improvements for our chaplains -> master of sancitity can speak 3 litanies, a new Reclusiarch can speak 2. 

- I hope that the new WL-Traits will be good again or even better because our supplement is very weak here.