Schlitzaf Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 (edited) On a core level before anything GW should undo the year 1 CA Nerfs to Codex SM and other Space Marine Books/Chapters. And heavily considering rolling back late 8th Ed Nerfs. Beyond the undo’ign those earlt nerfs (+5 pt erads for example or BA Sang Gaurd Nerf as stuff to undo). Shooty Cessors going to down 19. And relavent points adjustments for ither units. Argueably 18 for all Tacticus Cessor Chassis (1 pt for Primaris Neos then). All Upgrades should cost reduce of 5pts*. The harder thing is the relative cost between Veterans and Troop-Calibar Units. When its 4 points to Veteran why wouldn’t you? *Atleast all non-elite units. Also CoolGear Upgrades not like Hunters 1 pt to ger chainswords (througg argueably that could go to zero). Yes this marijes Tacts and equivalent get free or cheap specials/weapons. But that is fine. Edited March 30, 2022 by Schlitzaf BLACK BLŒ FLY 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urkh Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 Ok med, after reading what you just wrote, I went back and reread the thread, and I can see what you are talking about with the shutting down. Where you lost me was that your posts were very general, and I feel if you had used quotes or @'s, or even explained it better they way you had here, it would have come across better. As such, you seemed to blanketedly cover all the posts. As for your wishes: I like them, but outside changing things that are specific to black templars, such as our chapter tactic (which changing it in the main book has the problem of the fact that we have our supplement), I still don't think these are changing things from a Black Templar point of view, and just a space marine PoV. Maybe something we're looking for could be, "I wish X unit gained Y ability, that would work great in melee chapters like templars, but might not in a Ultra army." I think you got close to that with the chaplain idea, but if we restrict that to only templars, why not just put it in our next supp? If we put it into the base dex, it would add more sentences to an already lengthy paragraph at the bottom of the chaplain datasheet, and idk about everyone else, but I already have problems wanting to read a big paragraph for a rule in a datasheet. Also, I like the idea of pick your own superdoctrine, but... we sort of have vows for that, yah? And again, any general buff to the space marine codex is going to give all armies more varied lists, simply by nature of more things are competitive. Sorry, I don't mean to pick on you. You're just the OP. Khornestar and Sword Brother Adelard 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrystalSeer Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 In the vain of what med seems to be talking about, I think the vows/passions could be re-worked. It's an amazing idea but a rather lackluster implementation. I don't really see anyone take anything outside of Uphold. Though it will be years before there's an update to the sup. BLACK BLΠFLY 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofSigismund Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 They really could fix the vows with a quick errata, especially the one that makes charging a pain, because if it wasn’t for that I would take that one sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medjugorje Posted March 31, 2022 Author Share Posted March 31, 2022 would be way easier when you gain something like stratagems, special rules and so on. for example: SUFFER: lets have a stratagem which autowounds on 6s ( and if you are already make autowounds on 6s --> autowounds on 5s or 4s). Give us more aesy ways for rerolls (chapter tactic) so we gain more 6s. AAC: give us additional bonus on assault doctrine its all can happen in the SM codex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urkh Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 would be way easier when you gain something like stratagems, special rules and so on. for example: SUFFER: lets have a stratagem which autowounds on 6s ( and if you are already make autowounds on 6s --> autowounds on 5s or 4s). Give us more aesy ways for rerolls (chapter tactic) so we gain more 6s. AAC: give us additional bonus on assault doctrine its all can happen in the SM codex. Ok, these are something I could get behind if I am understanding you correctly. The Strat gives any chapter a bonus, but our vow may already give that bonus, so we would get something extra. So if I were to write one, it could be "destroy the witch: whenever you make a melee attack attack against an enemy psyker unit, reroll a wound roll of 1. If you already have an ability like this, reroll all wound rolls against that psyker unit in melee." Something along those lines, or like what you wrote for suffer, could definitely be in codex marines, but would benefit us more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Laeroth Posted April 9, 2022 Share Posted April 9, 2022 Ugh. Am I going to be the spoiler again? BLACK BLΠFLY 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrystalSeer Posted April 9, 2022 Share Posted April 9, 2022 Ugh. Am I going to be the spoiler again? Please do. The last time was a blast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sword Brethren Durion Posted April 9, 2022 Share Posted April 9, 2022 Ugh. Am I going to be the spoiler again? Yesss! Save us from overpowered xeno and give us hope! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medjugorje Posted April 9, 2022 Author Share Posted April 9, 2022 Ugh. Am I going to be the spoiler again? just tell us if you think this spoiler would make me happy. IF so then most people here would be very happy I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medjugorje Posted April 9, 2022 Author Share Posted April 9, 2022 and main question: still a boardcontrole army or is it possible to build up a real melee army as BT ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sword Brethren Durion Posted April 9, 2022 Share Posted April 9, 2022 Ugh. Am I going to be the spoiler again? just tell us if you think this spoiler would make me happy. IF so then most people here would be very happy I think. Troll on: don't you remember all the people saying we never be that much of a melee army and it was cool to be a control one ? Most of those who disapear fastly ! Troll off : I got the same hope as yours! BLACK BLΠFLY 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted April 9, 2022 Share Posted April 9, 2022 Ugh. Am I going to be the spoiler again? anything you can share would be greatly appreciated !! :) Medjugorje 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike8404 Posted April 10, 2022 Share Posted April 10, 2022 (edited) Something to be said is, Black Templars aren't solely a melee army. First and foremost, Templars are loyalist marines and loyalist marines are a shooty army with some melee, we just have more melee than IF or UM but less than BA or SW. So anything that buffs shooting, especially bolters, will be huge for us just like it was when our Psychic Awakening happened. I just want my Exorcists to be as good as Templars are. But, that won't happen without updates to the OG supplements from 3 years ago Edited April 10, 2022 by Mike8404 Schlitzaf 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medjugorje Posted April 10, 2022 Author Share Posted April 10, 2022 Something to be said is, Black Templars aren't solely a melee army. First and foremost, Templars are loyalist marines and loyalist marines are a shooty army with some melee, we just have more melee than IF or UM but less than BA or SW. So anything that buffs shooting, especially bolters, will be huge for us just like it was when our Psychic Awakening happened. I just want my Exorcists to be as good as Templars are. But, that won't happen without updates to the OG supplements from 3 years ago thats so wrong. SOOO WRONG. in 3rd edtion BT used to be the only one chapter with melee troop choices, no whirlwinds and now devastor marines. Normal Marines (back then when BA, BT, SW.... had their own codex) it was a shooting army in the table top ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted April 10, 2022 Share Posted April 10, 2022 (edited) nvm Edited April 10, 2022 by Black Blow Fly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maritn Posted April 10, 2022 Share Posted April 10, 2022 Something to be said is, Black Templars aren't solely a melee army. First and foremost, Templars are loyalist marines and loyalist marines are a shooty army with some melee, we just have more melee than IF or UM but less than BA or SW. So anything that buffs shooting, especially bolters, will be huge for us just like it was when our Psychic Awakening happened. I just want my Exorcists to be as good as Templars are. But, that won't happen without updates to the OG supplements from 3 years ago thats so wrong. SOOO WRONG. in 3rd edtion BT used to be the only one chapter with melee troop choices, no whirlwinds and now devastor marines. Normal Marines (back then when BA, BT, SW.... had their own codex) it was a shooting army in the table top ... Even though SW had access to Whirlwinds and better Devs, they had even two troop choices that were better at melee, so I'd say he is right: SW were more of a melee army than our BT. BLACK BLΠFLY 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted April 10, 2022 Share Posted April 10, 2022 Blood Claws are definitely a melee unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medjugorje Posted April 10, 2022 Author Share Posted April 10, 2022 we are way too far from the beginnig. Lets say we used to be a melee chapter, then we used to be black ultramarines '(a board controle army) and since end of 8th we used to be a melee chapter until the supplement made us a more diverse board controle army again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike8404 Posted April 10, 2022 Share Posted April 10, 2022 (edited) we are way too far from the beginnig. Lets say we used to be a melee chapter, then we used to be black ultramarines '(a board controle army) and since end of 8th we used to be a melee chapter until the supplement made us a more diverse board controle army again. Sorry for getting us off track. I think something that will help us out, more so than other chapters,is the continued "Primaris'ing" of First Born units, like Company Veterans, and/or shifting the Rhino chassis straight to CSM so our troops can exclusively utilize Impulsors. That would clear up our transport options, which Templars utilize more than a lot of other chapters. With the exception of right now Edited April 10, 2022 by Mike8404 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Mittens Posted April 10, 2022 Share Posted April 10, 2022 A big problem is impulsor is only 6 seats, and repulsor is a bunch of points for 10 seats, and generally doesn't want to be close to the enemy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted April 10, 2022 Share Posted April 10, 2022 (edited) I haven't really played much 40k since tau hit the scene, but I quite enjoy the board control style that's driven by melee blocks. And I took other oaths over uphold quite often. But I'm sure stuffs changed, especially if you really want to try and compete with the big boys. Edited April 10, 2022 by SkimaskMohawk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike8404 Posted April 10, 2022 Share Posted April 10, 2022 A big problem is impulsor is only 6 seats, and repulsor is a bunch of points for 10 seats, and generally doesn't want to be close to the enemy. Maybe I'm biased, I still run Impulsor Rush with BGV Medjugorje and BLACK BLΠFLY 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLŒ FLY Posted April 10, 2022 Share Posted April 10, 2022 You have to play to the mission to win which comes down to board control… melee armies can do well at it and prosper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medjugorje Posted April 10, 2022 Author Share Posted April 10, 2022 A big problem is impulsor is only 6 seats, and repulsor is a bunch of points for 10 seats, and generally doesn't want to be close to the enemy. Maybe I'm biased, I still run Impulsor Rush with BGV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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