Whishlist for new SM Codex

[9x19 Parabellum]

Ok I'm going to take a stab at this.  Here's what I want to see for Space Marines in the future.

 

GLOBAL BUFFS:

-Bolter Discipline - to hit rolls of 6 with a "bolt" weapon = autowound.  This will increase average output without having to modify stats of bolt weapons.

-Space Marine character buffs have greater range than other factions; 12"

-in general, reduce cost for most Space Marine characters by 5-10%

-all Marine characters become 2+ ws/bs regardless of their role.

-massive rebalancing of all chapter tactics, chapter specific stratagems/warlord traits/psychic powers/relics, and super-doctrines,  bringing everything up to the level of where Black Templars are at right now.

 

TOOPS.

-Tacticals and Intercessors all gain some kind of "super objective secured" ability (each model counts as 2) for securing objective.  Reduce cost for most by 1 point.

-Infiltrators; gun becomes assault 3.

-Incurors; gun becomes assault 3, combat blades gain 1 AP. Mine becomes easier to use.

-Heavy Intercessors; reduce cost by 3 points.

 

ELITES:

-all dreadnoughts become ws/bs 2+ and gain 2 wounds; venerable dreads reroll their own hit rolls of 1

-anything with veteran word/theme/design increases ws to 2+ (vanguard vets, assault termies, bladeguard vets, sword brethren, and any other melee based vets) OR bs to 2+ (sternguard vets, tactical terminators, company vets or any other shooty style vets)

-scouts move to fast attack or back to troops

-assault centurions, invictors and aggressors all drop in points. 

-reivers bolt carbine assault 3, and gain 1 ap to combat blades, and gain some kind of 'fvckery' ability for opponent like deny ability for enemy units within 12" to benefit from stratagems or shut down auras buffs.

 

FAST ATTACK:

-outrider sgt can carry good weapon; squad size up to 6, drop in points.

-land speeders; change datalink telemetry so it's not just keyed to whirlwinds. -1 to be hit.

-invader atv drops 5 points

-assault squad: drops 2 points (effectively making the jump packs free), and gains the ability to come in from deepstrike on turn 1 like a drop pod if they have jump packs

-storm speeders; -1 to be hit drop price 10-15 points depending on particular version.

 

HEAVY:

-every space marine vehicle that is not a "Dreadnought" or a "Speeder" gains +1 Armor Save and goes to 12 wounds (rhino, impulsor, razorback), 15 wounds (all other main battle tanks chassis not specified), or 20 wounds (land raiders and repulsors)

-stalker and hunter drop in points, along with all the above stuff, given their hyper specialized nature.

-hellblasters...drop 3-4 points.

-centurion devastators; drop in points

-eradicators, eliminators, thunderfire cannon, devastator squad are all fine, possibly just need minor points adjustments.

-servo turret - no idea, never used it and never will.

 

FLYERS:

-all need to come down in points, but Flyers as a general unit type need to be rethunk.

Edited April 11, 2022 by 9x19 Parabellum

[Mike8404]

Ok I'm going to take a stab at this. Here's what I want to see for Space Marines in the future.

 

GLOBAL BUFFS:

-Bolter Discipline - to hit rolls of 6 with a "bolt" weapon = autowound. This will increase average output without having to modify stats of bolt weapons.

-Space Marine character buffs have greater range than other factions; 12"

-in general, reduce cost for most Space Marine characters by 5-10%

-all Marine characters become 2+ ws/bs regardless of their role.

-massive rebalancing of all chapter tactics, chapter specific stratagems/warlord traits/psychic powers/relics, and super-doctrines, bringing everything up to the level of where Black Templars are at right now.

 

TOOPS.

-Tacticals and Intercessors all gain some kind of "super objective secured" ability (each model counts as 2) for securing objective. Reduce cost for most by 1 point.

-Infiltrators; gun becomes assault 3.

-Incurors; gun becomes assault 3, combat blades gain 1 AP. Mine becomes easier to use.

-Heavy Intercessors; reduce cost by 3 points.

 

ELITES:

-all dreadnoughts become ws/bs 2+ and gain 2 wounds; venerable dreads reroll their own hit rolls of 1

-anything with veteran word/theme/design increases ws to 2+ (vanguard vets, assault termies, bladeguard vets, sword brethren, and any other melee based vets) OR bs to 2+ (sternguard vets, tactical terminators, company vets or any other shooty style vets)

-scouts move to fast attack or back to troops

-assault centurions, invictors and aggressors all drop in points.

-reivers bolt carbine assault 3, and gain 1 ap to combat blades, and gain some kind of 'fvckery' ability for opponent like deny ability for enemy units within 12" to benefit from stratagems or shut down auras buffs.

 

FAST ATTACK:

-outrider sgt can carry good weapon; squad size up to 6, drop in points.

-land speeders; change datalink telemetry so it's not just keyed to whirlwinds. -1 to be hit.

-invader atv drops 5 points

-assault squad: drops 2 points (effectively making the jump packs free), and gains the ability to come in from deepstrike on turn 1 like a drop pod if they have jump packs

-storm speeders; -1 to be hit drop price 10-15 points depending on particular version.

 

HEAVY:

-every space marine vehicle that is not a "Dreadnought" or a "Speeder" gains +1 Armor Save and goes to 12 wounds (rhino, impulsor, razorback), 15 wounds (all other main battle tanks chassis not specified), or 20 wounds (land raiders and repulsors)

-stalker and hunter drop in points, along with all the above stuff, given their hyper specialized nature.

-hellblasters...drop 3-4 points.

-centurion devastators; drop in points

-eradicators, eliminators, thunderfire cannon, devastator squad are all fine, possibly just need minor points adjustments.

-servo turret - no idea, never used it and never will.

 

FLYERS:

-all need to come down in points, but Flyers as a general unit type need to be rethunk.

So Night Lords are rumored to be losing a lot of the Leadership fvckery and moving to aura denials. Reivers should get that too because of their "terror troops" keyword. All Vetearn Units (Vanguard/Sternguard/Company Vets) should also get an additional wound, which appears to be becoming a precedent Edited April 11, 2022 by Mike8404

[Marshal Laeroth]

I will wet your parched throats a little bit. Soon. Edited April 12, 2022 by Marshal Laeroth

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

YESSSSSSSH :D

[SirJyo]

As long as the bloat gets consolidated/cut down I'll be happy.

Either kill firstborn or consolidate them/primaris

[Medjugorje]

I want a chapter tactic which makes us better in close combat. At the moment we working just with datasheets (as IF + UM...) at the same time when BA have +1 A and +1 to wound.

Wolves have +1 to hit and scars still have more dmge. Thats so embarrasing.

 

My hopes are that all Marines can choose Superdoctrines but can decide to take their promigenitor one. 

EXAMPLE: lets say there are 3 generics:

 

All chapters can decide to take one of those

- Heavy ( reroll 1s to wound )

- Tactical ( +3" range)

- Assault (reroll 1s to hit )

 

OR take their Supplement ones.

[Brother Kraskor]

As long as the bloat gets consolidated/cut down I'll be happy.

Either kill firstborn or consolidate them/primaris

 

I feel like GW either have a grand plan that will change everything, or they don't have a plan and wanted to make newmarines super special by changing them into a new form of marine to sell kits, when they should have just made them upgraded Tactical marines, Devastators etc like the treatment Chaos got, and now they're stuck and don't know what to do.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

We have two vows which boost our melee and with the advent of AoC both are useful, I currently prefer AAC. Helbrecht is definitely a force multiplier for our core units in melee, plus our Chaplains can boost our units as well - so definitely we can play outside of our data sheets.

[Medjugorje]

We have two vows which boost our melee and with the advent of AoC both are useful, I currently prefer AAC. Helbrecht is definitely a force multiplier for our core units in melee, plus our Chaplains can boost our units as well - so definitely we can play outside of our data sheets.

boost? the advantages are soooo small in comparison to BA and SW or even WS. And both comes with extrem disadvantages. 

 

Even Laeroth says that although is is much more optimistic then I. But why you want to destroy the whole discsussion?

 

I think there are things which you wish to have for your BT as well.. things which are just for BT and has nothing to do with my hopes or another chapters.

 

( i know that AAC has a Bonus in 2nd round they fight - BUT NORMALLY it normally does not happen except fluffy games because another unit will countercharge you and normally destroy you)

5 Assault Intercessors  (BT) vs 5 Assault Intercessors ( UM )

 

without any buffs -> 2,77

with AAC -> 4,167 wounds

with Suffer -> 3,5 wounds

with Suffer and 2CP for Assault Doctrine / with AAC and 1CP for genew. Might -> 5,225 wounds

 

Ultramarine without anything-> 2,77 (we are withouth anything as :cussty as a smurf)

Ultramarine with 1CP rerolls ->3,7 

Ultramairne with 0 CP / 1CP Doctrine -> 4,4167

Ultramarine with 1CP / 2CP rerolls and Doctrine (as long as UM is not in Assault) -> 5,55  SHOWS THAT :cussTY SMURFS already better in close combat then us

Ultramarine with 2CP rerolls and genew. Might -> 4,64

Ultramarine with 1CP / 2CP Genw. Might and doctrine -> 5,225

Ultramarine with 3 CP / 2CP everything -> 7,2 ( both in best case they are even better in melee)

 

 

so it shows all what BT really can do is buff with litanies ( as Ultramarines can do to with +1 to wound) but being harder to kill with lot of 5++ 5+++ 6+++ minitranshuman, Icon of Heinman and Crux Obsidian.

 

 

And BA in their worst situations -> 3,7

and without any buffs in their assault docrine ( 2cps if not alreay ) -> 6,67

7,5 with Genew. Might and assault doctrine.

 

SW 3,47 without any buffs

7,3 when all buffs are in

 

WS -> 2,77 without any buffs

0/2 CP 10,45 with all buffs by far the strongest for far less CP.

Edited April 25, 2022 by Medjugorje

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

To be honest I’m happy with what I’ve got. They are good enough for me and that’s something I can enjoy rather than pining for something more.

[Medjugorje]

Come on - even when you are happy with you book. There are always things you like to have. 

 

 

( For example: I play Dark Eldar as my secound army. And the new codex is absolutely GREAT, a bit broken when it was released but the internal balance was great, every single unit has great rules and the flavour of this army is pefect. FAST, DEADLY but fragile when you know how to play against. EVEN THEN I could say the codex would be bettter if they had some new HQs in it: VECT, a Dracon ( in hierachy secound after an Archon - used to have rules and a model in 3rd edition codex)

I mean nothing is perfect. Throw away your antipathy against me and be open in this discussion. I am sure there are little things you would like to see or you would be happy if they were implemented in the new codex.

Edited April 25, 2022 by Medjugorje

[Brother Kraskor]

Compulsory Emperor's Champion at Strike Force games and above, but doesn't take a slot, and allows the whole army to lose the Vow Passion if the EC performs a specific task (one associated with each vow).

 

For example, Abhor the Witch, if the EC slays a psyker character in melee then the army is released from the Abhor passion for the rest of the game.

[Medjugorje]

Interesting. But i dont think this can be handled by the Codex SM. But maybe the new Champion model comes with keyword champion which also includes the Emperors champion and gives them some additional rules. This is what I would like to see from a realisstic POV.

[Brother Kraskor]

Ah yeah sorry I got carried away, this would need to come in a BT supplement update - which I don't imagine we'll get for a couple years!

[Medjugorje]

I think that could happen in 10th edtion. As we hear in the rumors and to this day we can expect one supplement per edition ( which is totally fine.

And two Marine Codex books

[Medjugorje]

Another point I really hope to see is some very good WL-Traits because the WL-Traits in our Supplement sucks. They are by far the most weakest by all Marines.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

What are the best SM WLTs ?

[Brother Kraskor]

I want to like Oathkeeper because we already have access to a 6" intervener so you could play some real cheeky games, but at the same time I want to be charging anyway!

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Oathkeeper on the Judicar is amazing. Master of Arms on the EC is good.

Edited April 26, 2022 by Black Blow Fly

[Brother Kraskor]

Yeah I think Judiciar has to be the Oathkeeper recipient tbh. And I guess if you are going like BGV you want to just take & hold objectives and be a nuisance to remove so Judiciar is a good complement. But if you are committing to a glorious Sword Brethren charge the Judiciar is less helpful.

[Medjugorje]

What are the best SM WLTs ?

from a BT perspective:

 

currently all in the SM book:

 

-Rites of War

-Selfless Healer

-that special WL-Trait for MoS