Valkyrion Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 Loyalists: 1: Imperium Secundus is established with the Ultramarines, Dark Angels and Blood Angels as the trio of legions. Sanguinius is still alive. 2: Terra survives with Imperial Fists, White Scars and Salamanders (reunited with their Primarch) 3: Raven Guard, Space Wolves and Iron Hands are mainly elsewhere. Traitors: 1: All traitors present in force at Terra are destroyed. That is Sons of Horus, World Eaters and Death Guard primarily. 2: All traitors present in smaller forces survive. That is Thousand Sons, Iron Warriors (they were there in force, but they retreat before the grand finale) and Emperor's Children 3: Alpha Legion, Night Lords and Word Bearers (practically fractured, so could be a bit destroyed, a lot destroyed or doing their own thing) War outcome: Imperial victory, Terra is in ruins, BUT THE EMPEROR IS DEAD. So is Malcador, and just for fun, so is Valdor. Chaos forces are decimated and they become little more than the Tau or Dark Eldar or Genestealer cults in that they are nuisances but as a whole, CSM are massively diminished. Militarily speaking this is a comprehensive Imperial victory; three traitor legions dead, 3 decimated, 9 loyalist legions alive and able to rebuild, but without the Emperor. What do Terra and Macragge do? Do they war with each other? Do they split the galaxy like dividing a country? Does Terra still hold the sway of the throne world even without anyone on the throne? Does Dorn become emperor by virtue of being on the throne world? Do they go hand in hand merrily through the galaxy? What do the RG, SW and IH do? Without the Emperor do they go their own way and be completely independent? Does one Legion join Terra or Macragge thus swaying the balance of power? I can't imagine Dorn being happy with the news that Guilliman had started Imperium Secundus, nor could I see Guilliman feeling practical about a ruined Terra being the seat of humanity. What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaurdian31 Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 Well if the Emperor is dead there is no Astronomicon and without that there is no Imperium so humanity gets a bunch of little kingdoms across the galaxy with no way of travelling to each other quickly. Tyranids might not show up, but the Necrons wake up and kill everyone. WARMASTER_ 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grailkeeper Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 (edited) Emperor dead, no one holding Magnuses folly closed. Cicatrix maledictum happens 10k years early in the heart of the Imperium. Presumably all all custodes die defending the Emperor or in the aftermath in the webway . As Gaurdian mentioned- no astronomican. Things look grim. These issues have to be dealt with before Imperium secundus. Supposing these monumental issues can even be dealt with there is no clear line of succession. There was nearly a war between Imperial Fists and Ultramarines over the break up of legions alone. Arguably the Lion has best claim as Primarch of the first but that's tenous and half his legion don't support him. There probably would be a second civil war sorting that out PLUS a seperate internal civil war among the Dark Angels- this time on Macragge as well as Caliban. With the Emperor categorically dead the Imperial Faith probably dies in infancy. This is bad for humanity as it provides some of the best protection against chaos and corruption. Chaos were massively diminished in the aftermath of the heresy already. For about a thousand years or maybe longer they were a myth. That's a really long time. They regroup. The gods still want power. Maybe it takes longer and goes to different champions, but I think chaos can still regroup. It helps to have a warp rift at the core of humanity. What's to stop the loyal primarchs going missing in the way they did in the current setting? Fulcrum can still mark gulliman. Tldr: probably an extinction event for humanity, definitely for the Imperium. Edited March 29, 2022 by grailkeeper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted March 29, 2022 Share Posted March 29, 2022 If you go with a Thorian belief system, as the Emperor dies, a new warp rift opens on terra, after a couple of centuries the Emperor's will remanifests itself into a new mortal shell and begins the great crusade anew. The High Lords and remaining Primarchs/Chapters are divided as to whether this is truly the emperor or a being of chaos, and Civil War ensues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noserenda Posted March 29, 2022 Share Posted March 29, 2022 How would it even happen? I suspect the devil would be in the details, especially in how a smaller Loyalist force with no reinforcement wave beat the traitors so conclusively. Surely the Terran forces are essentially destroyed too? Assuming the Astronomicon is somehow maintained, (because without it, no Imperium) i suspect the Imperium Secundus becomes the new seat of Imperial power by default under the Emperor Sanguinius. Though perhaps the civil war just rumbles into a new phase as some of the other loyal legions object to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jings Posted March 29, 2022 Share Posted March 29, 2022 If you go with a Thorian belief system, as the Emperor dies, a new warp rift opens on terra, after a couple of centuries the Emperor's will remanifests itself into a new mortal shell and begins the great crusade anew. Wouldn't this depend entirely on the manner of the Emperor's death? If Horus was the one to do it, then wouldn't that have been a proper perpetual death? I think with the Thorian theory it's implicit that the belief of the Emperor as a God is what would fuel that rebirth. Death by Horus + no faith-powered warp power boosts = Megadeath Karhedron 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted March 29, 2022 Share Posted March 29, 2022 The manner of the Emperor's death matters greatly as he is a Perpetual. In "The First Wall", Layack explains that the only way to stop the Emperor regenerating or reincarnating is to destroy him in body, mind and spirit. Only Horus can do that which is why the Chaos Gods have spent so much time and effort investing him with their own power. They have spent the entre Heresy forging him into the only weapon that can actually kill the Emperor. So if the Emperor dies in any other way, he will probably come back. Having said that, with no Astronomicon and no centralised authority, even he would not be able to do much to hold the Imperium together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkyrion Posted March 30, 2022 Author Share Posted March 30, 2022 If you go with a Thorian belief system, as the Emperor dies, a new warp rift opens on terra, after a couple of centuries the Emperor's will remanifests itself into a new mortal shell and begins the great crusade anew. Wouldn't this depend entirely on the manner of the Emperor's death? If Horus was the one to do it, then wouldn't that have been a proper perpetual death? I think with the Thorian theory it's implicit that the belief of the Emperor as a God is what would fuel that rebirth. Death by Horus + no faith-powered warp power boosts = Megadeath Megadeaths first instinct would likely to be to destroy the forge world of Metalica... firestorm40k, grailkeeper, Cactus and 1 other 4 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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