Leagues of Votann Initial 1st April 2022 reveal, new lore & articles discussion

[Noserenda]

As they probably arent going to get the whole range at once, id expect a release box with an infantry based salvage force from the trailer then further waves adding new toys for other environments.

[Marshal Mittens]

I imagine their release will be like admech, with 2 HQs, a troops choice, elite, support an fast attack, and more like a year later.

[WrathOfTheLion]

Could be similar to Lumineth or other such releases. I think they'll want to give some breathing room between, gives time to paint stuff up for those that get the army. I think that two-stage release model has been fairly successful.

[KnightofSigismund]

I wonder if the weapons are going to be imperial +1 and outclass imperial weapons in every way while being cheaper.

[TheVoidDragon]

I very much like the usual fantasy dwarf archetype and they tend to be one of my favourite factions in settings, so i'm very glad to they're being re-introduced to 40K.

 

I am somewhat unsureabout the model, however. The main thing is that it comes across a little bland. It definitely doesn't look bad, a high-tech practical look for them is fine especially considering their lore, it's just that there isn't really anything to give it a distinct theming. Grendlsen was a great miniature that evoked the right sort of feeling, and the Kharadron overlords were a very unique take on the Dwarf aesthetics in AoS, but I don't really get the impression of any sort of theming to these beyond generic sci-fi. At the very least I'd have liked just a little bit more inspiration from their classic miniatures/Grendlsen in the way of the undersuit being padded, and a small dwarf-head icon on his backpack or belt. I just feel like it needs something to make it a bit more distinct overall.

 

I do hope that they don't make them all have robotic feet, though. It doesn't even seem like the armour will allow a proper beard, either? There isn't room for it to fit outside the armour or it would be obscured on the inside, as it comes up to their chin.

 

In terms of lore, It would be interesting they take the usual fantasy dwarf aspects and what they were before and just make them even more absurd. Have it so this league saw that the others were falling to the Tyranids and that they had no chance at surviving them, and as a last resort used some form of DAoT device to transport themselves out of harms way. They end up on their own on the other side of the galaxy.

 

After being abandoned by the Imperium (like they were abandoned by the Eldar against the Orks) and almost being wiped out entirely, they become entirely self-reliant and even more distrustful of others. The repercussions of the Tyranid attack makes them paranoid, realizing that they were completely unprepared and deciding they won't make that mistake again; so they end up fortifying their remaining territory to absurd, over-the-top levels while producing large numbers master-crafted warmachines and superheavies like the Land Trains, Colossus and Airships and overall becoming all about being able to weather whatever horrors of the galaxy come for them. Give them absurdly huge space stations and megastructures with all manner of DAoT esoteric weapons and have them with a sort of personality-transfer to preserve and interact with their ancestors as an AI fascimile in a mechanical Squat body to preserve their history.  After the rest of them got destroyed this last league ends up just holding on to what they have left with as much effort as they can put into it, so they've been fortifying and preparing ever since.

 

Basically take the typical Dwarf "Stoic, Hardy, master-crafters" side to an extreme of their society just going "No half Measures for anything". A mix of the usual Dwarfs themes, the Dark Angel's Horus Heresy "Hoarding Forbidden Technology" thing, and Cadia.

Edited April 6, 2022 by TheVoidDragon

[redmapa]

I wonder if the weapons are going to be imperial +1 and outclass imperial weapons in every way while being cheaper.

 

Maybe Im putting too much on the fact that this one model has a short weapon but I think that there is a design space for an army who is more effective at mid range. Marines and Sisters are supposed to be mid range shooting but imo they are that because they can engage in close combat while also being effective at shooting and both have plenty of long range options so I think that an army that doesnt want to be in assault but is effective at close range can be an interesting niche for Squats, something like Tau Breacher Teams but on an army wide scale. This would also allow Squats to be Imperium+1 in terms of weapons but not being just Imperium but better as the rest would focus on assault or have longer ranged weapons.

[Captain Idaho]

I really want to see this model alongside other models and see how small it is. If it's a Squat, he needs to be shorter than other humanoid sized models or else it doesn't match the theme at all.

[Grotsmasha]

I really want to see this model alongside other models and see how small it is. If it's a Squat, he needs to be shorter than other humanoid sized models or else it doesn't match the theme at all.

I don't recall if it was in this thread, or the "How could Squats return" thread, but there a line up with them assuming both a 25mm base, and a 32mm base with the tallest having the top of the 'hunch' matching a Cadians eyeline.

[Slave to Darkness]

 

I really want to see this model alongside other models and see how small it is. If it's a Squat, he needs to be shorter than other humanoid sized models or else it doesn't match the theme at all.

I don't recall if it was in this thread, or the "How could Squats return" thread, but there a line up with them assuming both a 25mm base, and a 32mm base with the tallest having the top of the 'hunch' matching a Cadians eyeline.

 

Cadians eyeline? So squats are at least 5foot then. If so they are way to big... May make good Space Wolf primaris scouts though. :lol: 

[TheVoidDragon]

For me the new squats are too tall... I mean if we assume that the guard/cultist models we have now are 180-190cm tall men, then anyone in the imperium of man under 170cm are considered abhumans? What about people from high grav worlds lol... honestly they should be smaller...

Squats are people from high grav worlds, that's the whole reason for their size. From Lexicanum:

 

"Adapting to the hostile environment, the monotonous diet of algae-derived food and specifically the high gravity of their worlds the colonists became shorter, more compact, more resilient and tougher."

[TrawlingCleaner]

=][= As we've not had any more news on the Leagues for a few days and we're getting into lots of speculation, we'll close this topic for now. This thread here in the Amicus is great place to continue discussion if it takes your fancy. When more news is dropped, report the thread and we can reopen it. =][=

Edited April 6, 2022 by TrawlingCleaner

[Joe]

A new WarCom Article has gone up with some more background fluff.

[Bryan Blaire]

So today the Warhammer Community “What Actually is a Votann?” revealed a really interesting take on the concept of ancestry for the Kin - they are the amassed knowledge and wisdom of a League into a gestalt super-computer, and they are slowly failing, but also taking on aspects of a living mind - a sort of “ghost in the machine” concept, but maybe not quite artificial intelligence.  I really like that it even has their ancestral building templates in it - oh, if the Mechanicum only knew…

 

And hot damn is that art that has been shown cool - love the multi-faced head (I’m guessing that’s actually a Votann’s location, so you are likely consulting with the Votann in it’s “mind” directly) and the armor displayed is fantastic - futuristic, but still with the sort of knot work adornment on the cape-like thing and the loin cloth style element from the belt (look ma, no aprons!).

 

To me, this is a very, very cool take on the concept of ancestor worship/Living Ancestors for the Kin, and is a good step away from the potential meme’ry concept of “space dwarf” into a more unique design space, while still retaining some flavor of their origin.  There’s still room for “bikers” as well, but likely not as the leather bound, goggle bearing Squats of yester-year.

[Guest Triszin]

Love the art work

[Lord Marshal]

Visually I think it's even more apparent we're no longer in 80/90's Squat territory anymore. Definitely getting Starcraft Marine vibes from the one model and artworks far more than Imperial Guard Dwarfs.

 

Ancestor God Cores are a very nice, sci-fi spin on the classical Warhammer Dwarf tropes.

 

Hopefully the Ancestor Cores don't suffer the Eldar Craftworld problem of being Warf'ed everytime the new shiny needs to show how 'ard it is.

Edited April 22, 2022 by Lord Marshal

[StraightSilver]

I also love the idea that it's a sci-fi take on "Dwarves hoarding treasure". I mean, if the Imperium ever found out,  it would be Battle of the Five Armies all over again.

This is a great concept, but also allows unique Leagues based upon what their Votann actually contains or "is".

Edited April 22, 2022 by StraightSilver

[Joe]

It's definitely a nice take, aye. I'm looking forward to seeing where they take it moving forward.

[jaxom]

Got pretty close.

 

It would also be a good place to inject some darkness into their lore. Uploaded minds that slowly lose touch with reality, code errors piling up over time, until the 'great' Ancestors in charge may end up going absolute nutters.

Dear GW, hire me.

[Robbienw]

Looks like they have a form of power and terminator armour going by the artwork in that article!

[Plague _Lord]

Starting to think space dwarfs will come before chaos marines :(

[Redcomet]

The lore sounds really cool

[redmapa]

So they are both more advanced than AdMech but also slowly falling into the same errors that Humanity fell for during the Age of Strife with their robot legions, I like that because it doesn't undermine the core of the setting as it keeps the idea that progress and reason are gone, after all this stronghold of old knowledge may appear as an oasis in the desert of 40k but it's just a matter of when the machines will rise up again and the AdMech will be shown as not only correct but wise and these Votann folk not as advanced but naive.

[Captain Idaho]

Happy with the direction. Makes sense in a tragic 40K way to have an enlightened piece of technology that is looked upon a little too reverently in a completely devoted, ironic way. Very good.

 

Calling them Kin is lame. GW made a point of never once mentioning "Squats" in the article, likely thinking by referencing it as "many years" they can move away from the term. Not a fan.

Edited April 22, 2022 by Captain Idaho

[StrangerOrders]

Love the fluff, love the art, not loving the looming financial ruin lol.

[DesuVult]

I am not a huge fan of the cores and in particular them having STCs. It creates a scenario where the Votann cannot fail at almost any noteworthy points.