What factions are missing, from ages past?

[Captain Idaho]

This is designed to be a fun little jaunt down nostalgia lane, rather than a discussion on whether new factions are warranted, desired or other factions deserve their time in the sun or an update in general.

 

The 1st Company veterans amongst you will all have fond memories of things that existed in the past either in concept, fluff or rules, with some models occasionally. So what are we "missing?"

 

Off the top of my head, with a small amount of bias I can say:

 

• Arbites. Bring on the Judges!

• Exodites. Space dinosaurs and elves to shoot.

• Kroot. More Xenos to shoot.

• Feral Orks. See above.

• Legion of the Damned.

 

Now there are issues with some of those as standalone factions, most notably Feral Orks have a substantial representation in the current iteration of greenskins with the Snagga Boyz.

 

Arbites need expansion or else putting into another Codex Imperial Agents could see their inclusion alongside an Inquisition redux.

 

Exodites... honestly I think the theme is somewhat juvenile in a 40K setting since it'll be just dinosaurs with elves on it. Always happy to be wrong mind.

 

Kroot? Well they could have had an expansion in Codex Tau to be fair and that would have solved that issue. Still can squeeze an army out of them it needed of course.

 

Legion of the Damned had a fledgling army back in 3rd edition and it is an interesting concept to expand upon, essentially being Daemons of the Emperor, or otherwise spectres and manifestations of him. Maybe alongside a Chaos Daemons release?

 

******

 

Is there anyone I'm missing?

Edited April 3, 2022 by Captain Idaho
Spelling, for the spelling gods

[gorg_graggel]

I wouldn't put Snagga Boyz into the same category as feral Orks. Feral Orks would be more like wild animals without any kind of structure, so not really something an army could be made out of. Maybe something along the lines of NPCs, like an Ambull.

 

If Elves on Dinosaurs are juvenile, I wouldn't know into wich category of edginess I would put 40k as a whole... It's like people insisting that action figures or little plastic dolls are not toys. I would welcome them, even if I'm not particularly fond of dinosaurs. I could use them as kitbashing material for my Salamanders. ;)

 

Vespids (and other T'au auxilliary species) could fit alongside Kroot.

[Slave to Darkness]

Space Slann had an army list in 1st edition rulebook, Mentor Legion had special rules in WD. Then there was all the lesser bits and bobs like Enslavers etc... 

[Captain Idaho]

Feral Orks had a Codex back in 3rd so definitely existed as an army. The thing is, much of what makes them unique is included in the Snagga Boyz really. I don't know what else they can have to warrant inclusion.

 

Oh I remember Enslavers too, but that could be problematic to include bar skirmish games or one off models. Whole armies could be a issue though.

 

Space Slann... I think that would tie into the Old Ones perhaps?

[N1SB]

I was going to say Space Slann, but Brother S2D above rightly covered it.  Also:

 

Hrud - from 3rd ed

 

Imperial Beastmen - oh boy this would be a fun one.  They were considered Imperial Abhumans.  This is even more tragic than Squats.

 

Starchild and Senseis - this would be a mini-Codex, like the Inquisition or Rogue Traders.

 

Malal - the 5th Chaos power, the aspect of Chaos that is self-defeating and fights the rest of Chaos.  Could be renamed Malice

 

Orks that followed Chaos and Ork Genestealer Hybrids - that's probably written out of the lore, or we could convert ourselves

[Slave to Darkness]

Feral Orks had a Codex back in 3rd so definitely existed as an army. The thing is, much of what makes them unique is included in the Snagga Boyz really. I don't know what else they can have to warrant inclusion.

 

Oh I remember Enslavers too, but that could be problematic to include bar skirmish games or one off models. Whole armies could be a issue though.

 

Space Slann... I think that would tie into the Old Ones perhaps?

Just had a quick look through the rulebook, whilst there is no obvious literal connection with the Old Ones they have nurtured lesser races and all that Old One sounding goodness. Whilst they may not fit with current lore (depending on how they would return if they did) it would be interesting to see an ancient race that is older than the Eldar turning up again. 

 

Totally agree on the enslavers being problematic, but I would love to see them show up in a skirmish game. :wub: 

[N1SB]

Totally agree on the enslavers being problematic, but I would love to see them show up in a skirmish game.

 

Yeah no, I was thinking of that like the Ambull and the Zoat...which I still got to get, dangit.

 

Also!  Mentor Legion, I have that White Dwarf somewhere, I remember the rules, and I honestly thought gameplay-wise that could be emulated with Deathwatch rules.  Remember they just had their weird matrix thing in their helmets to coordinate their fire, etc., it's close enough to Special Issue Ammo, but could be extended to explain how they can mix different types of units into the same squad and share special rules, like Deathwatch Vets.

 

But now...Mark 8 Errant Power Armour, huh?  We just got all Beakies in plastic, imagine all Mark 8 Errant Power Armour in plastic, to represent special Veterans or something?  A total luxury item.  Now paint them up in Mentor colours and oooh la la.

Edited April 3, 2022 by N1SB

[gorg_graggel]

Feral Orks had a Codex back in 3rd so definitely existed as an army. The thing is, much of what makes them unique is included in the Snagga Boyz really. I don't know what else they can have to warrant inclusion.

 

Well, I stopped the hobby before 3rd started, so wasn't aware of that. I was going off of the meaning of the word feral. But if Beast Snaggaz already cover alot of what they used to be, I'd say they have already been revived then (and we might try to glean from that in what way Squats might get reworked).

[Slave to Darkness]

I was going to say Space Slann, but Brother S2D above rightly covered it.  Also:

 

Hrud - from 3rd ed

 

Imperial Beastmen - oh boy this would be a fun one.  They were considered Imperial Abhumans.  This is even more tragic than Squats.

 

Starchild and Senseis - this would be a mini-Codex, like the Inquisition or Rogue Traders.

 

Malal - the 5th Chaos power, the aspect of Chaos that is self-defeating and fights the rest of Chaos.  Could be renamed Malice

 

Orks that followed Chaos and Ork Genestealer Hybrids - that's probably written out of the lore, or we could convert ourselves

Cant believe I forgot the Starchild, considering the 2nd Realm of Chaos book is my all time fave GW publication. 

 

Beastmen I would love to see, give them pistols and swords and then the Guard has assault squads again. :D 

 

Malal/Malace... Yes please!!!

 

Chaos and Ork Stealers would be nice to see again. 

 

Chaos Squats... Oh yessssss.. 

[Captain Idaho]

Genestealer Orks would be fairly horrific but interesting. Would they work better as an adjustment to Genestealer Cult or Ork variants, or would they need their own list?

 

Regarding Space Slann... I'm no expert I was just remembering off the cuff the Warhammer Fantasy Slann and Old Ones. :)

 

Beastmen and other abhumans brings me to something I totally forgot Lost and the Damned! How could I have forgotten them!

[MARK0SIAN]

I think the natural home for Arbites is definitely something like Necromunda (where they sort of already exist) or maybe kill team. I don’t think they’d fit well into 40K as they’re not an army. They’re a police force. They have a different role and function within the imperium. Sure, they might help in the defence of a city or planet but they’re not being sent on crusades or campaigns etc.

 

Enslavers might be pretty cool. You could make a kind of zombified force with representative models from all the factions, or give them some kind of gimmick where they turn a players models against them somehow.

 

To be honest though, it’s hard to think of any missing faction that would tick a box that isn’t already the domain of an existing 40K race, either in terms of lore, visuals or how they behave on the table.

[Slave to Darkness]

Genestealer Orks would be fairly horrific but interesting. Would they work better as an adjustment to Genestealer Cult or Ork variants, or would they need their own list?

 

Regarding Space Slann... I'm no expert I was just remembering off the cuff the Warhammer Fantasy Slann and Old Ones.

 

Ill get pictures of the old Slann stuff and ping them over to you later for a read if you wish, or I could just dump the images here for everyone to see?? 

[Cleon]

It's part of the real shame that Necromunda isn't scaled right for 40k (every human is just too big), otherwise an Arbite release could have pulled double duty like they previous ones did.

[Captain Idaho]

I often thought that a couple of Codex books that detail "Pirates and Mercenaries" for non-Imperial factions alongside "Agents of the Imperium" would enable many of the concepts described here that might not warrant a full release to have a presence in 40K.

 

This doubles up as provision for a test bed for future releases too.

[Halandaar]

Didn't there used to be Chaos Orks as well, like Khorne-worshipping boyz?

[phandaal]

Since GW already gave a mouse a cookie with Squats - Chaos Squats should make their return. Complete with their own minor bull god so we can have bull centaur Dwarves in space!

[Slave to Darkness]

I often thought that a couple of Codex books that detail "Pirates and Mercenaries" for non-Imperial factions alongside "Agents of the Imperium" would enable many of the concepts described here that might not warrant a full release to have a presence in 40K.

 

This doubles up as provision for a test bed for future releases too.

They did have a Pirate army list in the Journal issue 13 12a. Even though no minis = no rules they could just say 'use any Munda stuff you wish' and Im sure some of us will end up doing whole armies, could even have Guardsmen who dont follow the Imperium but still fight for humanity. Tons of ways you can do it. 

[Brother Tyler]

The Adeptus Arbites aren't just a "police" force, having military capability. In any uprising or invasion of an Imperial planet, the Adeptus Arbites are likely one of the first armies of the Imperium that would be involved. They are just as appropriate in the WH40K game as the Genestealer Cults and are the natural counter to that faction.

 

The Arbites are well armed and armoured, able to deal with any small scale threat with the warriors from the Precincts which they occupy on nearly every Imperial world. They are often an early defence against planetary invasion, as well as quelling rebellious cults, Chaos covens and alien infestations.

They are not suitable in Necromunda. Necromunda represents local planetary criminal/gang activity, something countered by the Enforcers (who are very similar to the Adeptus Arbites, but lack the Imperium level jurisdiction).

 

The Arbitrators care little for minor planetary affairs, these matters are left to the planet's ruling body, as long as the tithe is maintained they sit silently in their monolithic Fortress-Precincts, watching. It is the Enforcers of the planetary governments that are tasked with the day-to-day civil order.

The Adeptus Arbites had 20 precincts (and 12 punitive battalions) on Armageddon, after all. Any battles set on worlds of the Imperium could involve the Adeptus Arbites (fall of Cadia, etc.).

 

Speaking of Armageddon, I'd love to see GW tell us more about the Officio Sabatorum and the Templars Psykologis. If those are suitable as military forces, it would be nice to see rules and models for them in the game (even if one or both might be more like the Officio Assassinorum).

 

In addition to most of the ideas posted by other members, I'd love to see the Rogue Traders and Imperial Navy get some love (beyond the limited models and rules that were released to support the Rogue Trader expansion for the previous edition of Kill Team). Rogue Traders are a natural way to represent "soup" armies of the Imperium (in addition to crusades).

 

I'm not a fan of the Old Ones coming back. The lore says that they left [the universe?], so bringing them back would be even more momentous than bringing the Primarchs into play (I'm fine with the ones they've brought back so far, as well as a few of the daemon Primarchs that we haven't seen yet, but I'm not a fan of more loyalist Primarchs being brought back just yet).

 

As much as I love the Aeldari, I've never really been a fan of bringing Exodites into the game except in some campaign/concept where they are defending their worlds. We have "Exodites" in the Anhrathe - though these are Exodites that have left their worlds and joined the Corsairs rather than proper dinosaur riding Exodites. To be fair, there were rules for them back in 2nd edition, but I've never really been able to reconcile why they would join their craftworld kin in battles that are not set on their Exodite worlds.

 

I'd love to see the Ecclesiarchy expanded beyond the Adepta Sororitas, especially with the Black Priests and Cardinals Crimson. It would be fun to see the Frateris Templars brought back, though that would probably be more appropriate in an Age of Apostasy "historical" campaign. The Frateris Militia, on the other hand, would serve as a neat rabble/expendable troops for the Ecclesiarchy.

 

As for xenos, while there is a lot of room for variety, things become more problematic if players are looking for full Warhammer 40,000 game factions. One-offs (sanctioned xenos for Necromunda, Kill Team, and as part of Rogue Trader/Inquisitor warbands) are do-able in some cases, and squads of the same (not for the Necromunda game, but suitable at larger levels) as well as allies to the T'au and Drukhari are also do-able. The implementation of the Zoat and Ambull worked well in the Blackstone Fortress game, but those probably wouldn't work as well in regular Warhammer 40,000. There is a significant investment of resources in developing full factions, and players desire that factions be somewhat distinct from each other (beyond just the visual aesthetics).

[Slave to Darkness]

 

I'm not a fan of the Old Ones coming back. The lore says that they left [the universe?], so bringing them back would be even more momentous than bringing the Primarchs into play (I'm fine with the ones they've brought back so far, as well as a few of the daemon Primarchs that we haven't seen yet, but I'm not a fan of more loyalist Primarchs being brought back just yet).

 

 

*throws shoe*

 

I do see your point even though Id sell both of my girlfriends lungs for a Space Slann army, but GW do like their big reveals, wouldnt surprise me if 20th edition saw the emperor get off his arse and actually do something useful instead of being a dried out lighthouse with bad skin problems. 

[N1SB]

Genestealer Orks would be fairly horrific but interesting. Would they work better as an adjustment to Genestealer Cult or Ork variants, or would they need their own list?

 

Good point, I agree.

 

Ork Genestealer Hybrids, even in their original conception, was just an adjustment or variant to an Ork unit.  In fact, they were Freebooterz.  Whereas the Freebooterz are now just that pirate-looking Heavy Support unit, they used to be a catch-all term of weird Ork units.  Example - Khorne Stormboyz were one such.

 

It wouldn't be a faction, it might not even be a special unit with White Dwarf rules per se, but it might be just 1 head or body swap option on a sprue.  Rules-wise, Aberrants or those new Beast Snagga Boyz are close enough.  The idea more than the product is the important bit.

 

This is the crazy bit, even though there were rules for Orkstealers in 1st ed, there was just 1 model for it, a standard Boy whose head was extra bulbous, his teeth especially sharp.  That's it!  Then even in the official artwork in the rules, he was walking alongside one of the Patriarch models (drawn to look exactly like the on-foot metal Patriarch of the time), some Orks, some Genestealers, but also another Ork Hybrid that looked exactly like what you'd get if you kitbashed the plastic Orks of the time with some Genestealer arms.

 

(Note - Space Hulk was huge at the time, as was Advanced Space Crusade, and those were as played as 40k.  So everyone had spare Genestealers.)

 

To drive that point home, they even had a White Dwarf article of someone doing just that, he even used a normal Genestealer as the Patriarch to show how you could save on costs, kitbashed some Orks and Stealers, then painted up that 1 actual Ork Hybrid model.  It was to show this understanding, a covenant between players, GW and Citadel Miniatures (which was a separate entity at the time, before their merger, and remember Citadel was technically the ones that bought GW).  It's like, "We only made 1 miniature, but we're teaching you how to make the rest with our other minis."

 

Those were simpler times.

[Slave to Darkness]

 

 

 

 

 

(Note - Space Hulk was huge at the time, as was Advanced Space Crusade, and those were as played as 40k.  So everyone had spare Genestealers.)

 

 

Boy those were good times. My Krieg pattern gasmask just fogged up thinking about it. That reminds me, I was gonna do a 3d Advanced Space Crusade board back in 2020 but life threw a spanner in the works and when that was sorted I ended up moving, guess I better get on with it now, I have no excuses not to atm. :lol: 

[MARK0SIAN]

The Adeptus Arbites aren't just a "police" force, having military capability. In any uprising or invasion of an Imperial planet, the Adeptus Arbites are likely one of the first armies of the Imperium that would be involved. They are just as appropriate in the WH40K game as the Genestealer Cults and are the natural counter to that faction.

 

 

The Arbites are well armed and armoured, able to deal with any small scale threat with the warriors from the Precincts which they occupy on nearly every Imperial world. They are often an early defence against planetary invasion, as well as quelling rebellious cults, Chaos covens and alien infestations.

They are not suitable in Necromunda. Necromunda represents local planetary criminal/gang activity, something countered by the Enforcers (who are very similar to the Adeptus Arbites, but lack the Imperium level jurisdiction).

 

The Arbitrators care little for minor planetary affairs, these matters are left to the planet's ruling body, as long as the tithe is maintained they sit silently in their monolithic Fortress-Precincts, watching. It is the Enforcers of the planetary governments that are tasked with the day-to-day civil order.

The Adeptus Arbites had 20 precincts (and 12 punitive battalions) on Armageddon, after all. Any battles set on worlds of the Imperium could involve the Adeptus Arbites (fall of Cadia, etc.).

 

Speaking of Armageddon, I'd love to see GW tell us more about the Officio Sabatorum and the Templars Psykologis. If those are suitable as military forces, it would be nice to see rules and models for them in the game (even if one or both might be more like the Officio Assassinorum).

 

In addition to most of the ideas posted by other members, I'd love to see the Rogue Traders and Imperial Navy get some love (beyond the limited models and rules that were released to support the Rogue Trader expansion for the previous edition of Kill Team). Rogue Traders are a natural way to represent "soup" armies of the Imperium (in addition to crusades).

 

I'm not a fan of the Old Ones coming back. The lore says that they left [the universe?], so bringing them back would be even more momentous than bringing the Primarchs into play (I'm fine with the ones they've brought back so far, as well as a few of the daemon Primarchs that we haven't seen yet, but I'm not a fan of more loyalist Primarchs being brought back just yet).

 

As much as I love the Aeldari, I've never really been a fan of bringing Exodites into the game except in some campaign/concept where they are defending their worlds. We have "Exodites" in the Anhrathe - though these are Exodites that have left their worlds and joined the Corsairs rather than proper dinosaur riding Exodites. To be fair, there were rules for them back in 2nd edition, but I've never really been able to reconcile why they would join their craftworld kin in battles that are not set on their Exodite worlds.

 

I'd love to see the Ecclesiarchy expanded beyond the Adepta Sororitas, especially with the Black Priests and Cardinals Crimson. It would be fun to see the Frateris Templars brought back, though that would probably be more appropriate in an Age of Apostasy "historical" campaign. The Frateris Militia, on the other hand, would serve as a neat rabble/expendable troops for the Ecclesiarchy.

 

As for xenos, while there is a lot of room for variety, things become more problematic if players are looking for full Warhammer 40,000 game factions. One-offs (sanctioned xenos for Necromunda, Kill Team, and as part of Rogue Trader/Inquisitor warbands) are do-able in some cases, and squads of the same (not for the Necromunda game, but suitable at larger levels) as well as allies to the T'au and Drukhari are also do-able. The implementation of the Zoat and Ambull worked well in the Blackstone Fortress game, but those probably wouldn't work as well in regular Warhammer 40,000. There is a significant investment of resources in developing full factions, and players desire that factions be somewhat distinct from each other (beyond just the visual aesthetics).

I’d argue the Arbites are still not an army though. The text says they can deal with any small scale problems. Even if they are involved in a planetary defence, it’s likely as a stop gap measure until reinforcements and regular forces can be mustered. Likewise they lack the kind of logistical support that would be needed to make them into an offensive force because that isn’t their job.

 

You could easily find a way to explain why they’re fighting on an imperial world against an invader but you’d have to contort yourself into knots to justify why they’re attacking an ork or tau world for example. Plus whilst they’re doing all this, who’s doing their actual day job enforcing Imperial Law?

 

I don’t think they are as justified as genestealer cults. GSC make sense as an advanced sabotage force sent by the tyranids. There’s plausible reason why they’d be present on pretty much any planet as the tyranids consume any biomass available. Why they’d be in any conflict zone is easily explainable. The same isn’t true for the Arbites.

[Slave to Darkness]

 

You could easily find a way to explain why they’re fighting on an imperial world against an invader but you’d have to contort yourself into knots to justify why they’re attacking an ork or tau world for example. Plus whilst they’re doing all this, who’s doing their actual day job enforcing Imperial Law?

 

 

 

Could have been dragged into it by an Inquisitor because they are desperate for troops, but even then I wouldnt say they need an entire range. High ranking copper, low level copper, troop squad with bolters and shotguns, another unit with riot shields and hitty sticks, APC, variant APC with heavier guns and thats about it really, the riot cops and shooting unit can be made with the same kit, APC's with another, Officers with the same kit with variant parts. 

 

They could even do the APC as a Chimera (clearly the Chimera STC is good enough to mass produce, why waste resources on developing a new vehicle when they can just strip it down and stick a water cannon on it to wash those damn space hippies) minus the hull mounted weapon and lasguns down the side. Just do a alternate weapon sprue for the APC and bung that in with the current Chimera. 

 

++EDIT++

 

Actually I think the Munda Enforcers look that way because GW dont want Urban and Stallone kicking in the door screaming we are the law and dread socking everyone (would be fun to watch though) they could just handwavium in some 'reason' that the Enforcers and Arbites use the same pattern armour and loose the Judge Dredd style for obvious reasons and pass off the current Munda kit as Arbites, job done. Im sure there is enough big ass fancy eagle shoulder pads in the Marine range that will pass if people still want the Dredd vibe. Give us the options to use the kits and we will figure the rest out, as we always did.   Shifts a few more kits for them as well. 

Edited April 3, 2022 by Slave to Darkness

[Slave to Darkness]

Jokaero were useable as armies back in the day as well. ;) Weapons were random though as they built weapons on the go. Would be 'interesting' to see Space Apes with obliterator style weapons rebuilding random vehicles as they plod along. Rather see that in a skirmish game than 40k though, would be great in Necromunda. 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

I was going to say Space Slann, but Brother S2D above rightly covered it. Also:

 

Hrud - from 3rd ed

 

Imperial Beastmen - oh boy this would be a fun one. They were considered Imperial Abhumans. This is even more tragic than Squats.

 

Starchild and Senseis - this would be a mini-Codex, like the Inquisition or Rogue Traders.

 

Malal - the 5th Chaos power, the aspect of Chaos that is self-defeating and fights the rest of Chaos. Could be renamed Malice

 

Orks that followed Chaos and Ork Genestealer Hybrids - that's probably written out of the lore, or we could convert ourselves

bro I would love imperial beastmen, too bad GW is dead set on beastmen being inherently chaos