Custodes FAQ Dataslate

[Skywrath]

Disclaimer: I am beyond furious at these changes.

 

■ Change the third bullet point of the Detachment Abilities of an Adeptus Custodes Detachment to read: ‘Troops units in Adeptus Custodes Detachments gain the Objective Secured ability (see the Warhammer 40,000 Core Book).

 

■ Add the following to the Esteemed Amalgam, Emperor’s Auspice and Martial Discretion Stratagems: ‘You can only use this Stratagem once.’

 

■ Change the Adeptus Custodes keyword in all instances on the Arcane Genetic Alchemy and Emperor’s Auspice Stratagems to read, Adeptus Custodes Infantry.

 

Welcome to being a C tier army, Custodes.

[sairence]

As someone who faced emperor's auspice/genetic alchemy spam multiple times...it's a necessary, and frankly entirely expected, change. Edited April 14, 2022 by sairence

[Skywrath]

As someone who faced emperor's auspice/genetic alchemy spam multiple times...it's a necessary, and frankly entirely expected, change.

 

Well shutting off the re-rolls was a feature in 8th edition, which didn't break the game that much. Space Marines have transhuman as well, and look where they are now. The main offenders for Custodes is a shield host which they didn't change, and the bikes which are now practically worthless. Honestly, I think you need more games underneath your belt, if you think that above, imo.

Edited April 14, 2022 by Skywrath

[sairence]

Maybe take a step back and a breather mate. I've played against it at multiple tournaments and it was an absolutely suffocating combo, to the point of making playing against it pointless with a lot of other armies.

 

The tenor of your post sounds very much like the comments I've seen here after the pre-release leaks, where everyone declared the Codex to be dead on arrival. And look how true that turned out to be.

[Skywrath]

Maybe take a step back and a breather mate. I've played against it at multiple tournaments and it was an absolutely suffocating combo, to the point of making playing against it pointless with a lot of other armies.

 

The tenor of your post sounds very much like the comments I've seen here after the pre-release leaks, where everyone declared the Codex to be dead on arrival. And look how true that turned out to be.

 

Well perhaps you should look at my posting history, because I was one of those that argued that the Custodes codex was strong on arrival. Of course, now with those changes, we can go back to the default argument, and let me explain to you why.

 

Let's look at the first point.

 

Change the third bullet point of the Detachment Abilities of an Adeptus Custodes Detachment to read: ‘Troops units in Adeptus Custodes Detachments gain the Objective Secured ability (see the Warhammer 40,000 Core Book).

 

So automatically our Wardens, Terminators, Vexillas HQ's lose ObSec. Wardens were a staple in a few competitive lists, terminators not so much, but now after the bikes being reduced to worthlessness, they might actually see play. HQ's losing ObSec hurts somewhat, because there was nothing stopping you moving a SC on bike and nabbing a point. Now yes, we still do count as 2 models, but in an meta where tyranids, tau, Eldar (many T3 blobs of 5-20) are prevalent, this directly :cusss with our ability to score primary unless you run 10 x guard like in 8th edition. Seeing how you still will be running things in blobs of 3 models (so counts as 6 models) without obsec, and without CP changes (therefore incentivising us to still run in units of 3) how do you propose we score consistently on primary now?

 

Second point.

 

Add the following to the Esteemed Amalgam, Emperor’s Auspice and Martial Discretion Stratagems: ‘You can only use this Stratagem once.

 

Alright off the bat let's start with Esteemed Amalgam. Emperor's chosen specific, change host. Surprisingly, this is a change I somewhat agree with, as this gets around the limitations of being locked into two solid shield hosts. Moving right along. 

 

Emperor's Auspice - A change I disagree with strongly. As I pointed out before, this stratagem by itself didn't break the game in previous editions (arguably more imbalanced than this one) and was strong only because it was underpriced. A simple change to 2/3CP instead of 1/2CP would have fixed it, instead of making it once per game. Now we pop it once on a unit in a game, where it means close to nothing, because everything nowadays runs around with a large volume of shots with good strength, damage and AP. Now in a meta like that, you need something like this to prevent getting annihilated in this brain-dead meta. So you prevented a torrent of shots, from re-rolling, now let's deal with another blob doing the same thing in another turn. I.e. See Tau and Tyranids.

 

Martial Discretion - Honestly, I don't use it that much, so I'm neutral with this one.

 

Third point.

 

Change the Adeptus Custodes keyword in all instances on the Arcane Genetic Alchemy and Emperor’s Auspice Stratagems to read, Adeptus Custodes Infantry.

 

Arcane Genetic Alchemy - oh boy, where do we begin with this mess. Same story with Emperor's Auspice, but minus the once per battle caveat. So Primaris units can get transhuman on them (such as ATV's and outriders) but our bikes can't? What did their assignment to the Vertus Praetors make them suddenly mechanised, and they suddenly forget they are flesh and bone just like the other Custodes? Oh wait, wait, we had that stratagem available in 8th edition for those 2CP earlier, and that didn't seem to break the game back when they had D6 weapons like every other faction..? And best of all, they even had ObSec then. So explain to me, how making this infantry only is logical when again, it's a simple matter of CP cost, instead of keywords. 

 

In simple words: Transhuman/Auspice on bikes didn't break the game, it was only under-priced stratagems and the emperor's chosen shield host. So now can you see why I'm so angry? They didn't even address the things that made the Custodes strong properly, this honestly seems like a 15-30m write-up of them being too lazy to balance shield hosts/CP costs!

Edited April 14, 2022 by Skywrath

[Subtleknife]

I shudder to think what facing DG will be like now they have the armour on contempt.

 

Also no object sec termies...ouch. I really like the theme of mass terminator assault guess it wont be as effective now. Custodes terminators just don't feel like custodes atm especially compared to DG and Deathwing termies when the golden boys should really be the...gold standard for termies.

 

I really dislike the new codex and the direction they keep going with the golden boys as it just doesn't feel like custodes to me. Oh well I am still glad GW are making regular changes.

Edited April 14, 2022 by Subtleknife

[Madmark666]

Also worth noting that against any variety of astartes our axes are only -1 AP now. That's the most impactful change in my opinion, relegates very elite units to a not very elite performance.

[Hellex_The_Thanatar]

My list changes...naught one but since I knew the bike nerfs would come.

 

 

C'est la vi.

[Thee85]

My biggest issue with the data slate is that it feels like Tau got a light slap on the wrist at worst. I’ve not played against Harlequins, but my games against Tau already felt like an uphill battle. I feel like the changes would feel a bit less brutal if we also got armour of contempt? I sort of wonder if they’re wanting to see how the army does for a bit before potentially adding in the next update. I think it’s going to be a long 3 months unfortunately, but time will tell.

[Captain Idaho]

I honestly don't have too many problems with the limitations q e changes for Custodes. It depends how you build a list of course, but a large infantry unit like Allarus will still benefit from our defensive Strategums.

 

It is somewhat frustrating The Emperor's Auspice can only be used once, but I don't think it breaks our game.

 

The most competitive lists of utilised lots of smaller units for Custodes which meant the benefit of defensive Strategums were limited somewhat anyway. I never liked the idea of 3×1 Allarus anyway.

 

The biggest problem is what didn't go into the Custodes in this update. Armour of Contempt would really have encouraged SoS to be taken rather than always pure Custodes, but it's a minor thing really.

[sairence]

I'm just a bit sad that SoS were forgotten about in the Armour of Contempt rule. Guess it's fluffy that they're being ignored, but still.

[duz_]

I'm just a bit sad that SoS were forgotten about in the Armour of Contempt rule. Guess it's fluffy that they're being ignored, but still.

:lol:

 

While I haven't played with the golden boys since their book dropped. These changes and buffs to others does seem drastic.

 

However, as exemplars of the Imperium may I remind everyone to keep their cool and keep the discussion cordial. :)

[nordsturmking]

First of all I want to say that custodes needed a nerf, they were clearly too strong compared to the other factions(except for Eldar, harlequins, Tau and maybe Tyranids). Emperor's Auspice and Arcane Genetic Alchemy should have stayed at 2CP. I don't think Esteemed Amalgam and Martial Discretion are so strong that they need to be only once per game.

Only troops having obsec is IMO uncalled for. custodes had obsec on everything but vehicles and it was not a problem because they have so few models. GW should have made only troops count has 2 models for obsec.

 

And GW should have reversed the CA points reduction for custodes and bring Trajann to 190point and maybe increase the point here and there a bit to make up for the buff from the new shield host rules.

 

When it comes to competitive list building

Wardens for example are 5 points more than a guard model, dont have obsec and you only get 1 attack and 6+ FnP vs non MW dmg why should i take them? It is similar with all non dread non troops units.

Now Custodes are back to the one or two 8th edtion lists with dread spam or troop spam.

 

All this not great game design but i would been ok with it as i said custodes were way too good.

But the thing that i really don't like about the data slate is that it make custodes so similar to marines. With the armor buff and the lost of obsec, custodes don't have something special anymore. Game play wise there is now really not much of a difference between a SM list with a lot terminators and blade guard and all the other 3 wound models and a custodes list.

 

Marine vehihles having a better armor that custodes vehihles of the same type that makes no sense.

Fluff wise the stats creep over last years became more and more of a problem. And now the difference between some Marine list and custodes is so small that custodes could very well be just another chapter with a gold color scheme.

Edited April 17, 2022 by nordsturmking

[Galthan Ironsturm]

@ Nordsturmking : totally agree with you.

 

Emperor's Auspice at 3/4cp.

Arcane Genetic Alchimy at 2/3cp.

Esteemed Amalgame at 2cp.

Martial Discrétion at 2cp.

 

And,

Why sisters of silence dont have ignore Ap-1?

[Hellex_The_Thanatar]

It goes to show that a lot of the complaints about this codex is where they put power is right back around to where is nay sayers to the new dex had issues:

 

They overloaded special rules shield hosts and strats instead of making custodes feel like walking demi gods via their stats and weapons.

 

 

Oh well!

[Silas7]

It goes to show that a lot of the complaints about this codex is where they put power is right back around to where is nay sayers to the new dex had issues:

 

They overloaded special rules shield hosts and strats instead of making custodes feel like walking demi gods via their stats and weapons.

 

 

Oh well!

That's because Strats are parasitic game design. Once removed we'll see power-creep reset so GW can re-add what was once a Strat back into stat-blocks and unit entries.

[nordsturmking]

 

It goes to show that a lot of the complaints about this codex is where they put power is right back around to where is nay sayers to the new dex had issues:

 

They overloaded special rules shield hosts and strats instead of making custodes feel like walking demi gods via their stats and weapons.

 

 

Oh well!

That's because Strats are parasitic game design. Once removed we'll see power-creep reset so GW can re-add what was once a Strat back into stat-blocks and unit entries.

 

Yup thats a good point 40k 9^th ed plays a bit like MTG with all the combos of strats and ability's that can buff a unit. And i think strats are too powerful.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

It goes to show that a lot of the complaints about this codex is where they put power is right back around to where is nay sayers to the new dex had issues:

They overloaded special rules shield hosts and strats instead of making custodes feel like walking demi gods via their stats and weapons.

Oh well!

The shield host rules basically went untouched. The main thing that was nerfed are some of the strats.

[Hellex_The_Thanatar]

 

It goes to show that a lot of the complaints about this codex is where they put power is right back around to where is nay sayers to the new dex had issues:

They overloaded special rules shield hosts and strats instead of making custodes feel like walking demi gods via their stats and weapons.

Oh well!

The shield host rules basically went untouched. The main thing that was nerfed are some of the strats.

Yes.

 

Custodes are so easily made fluffy again.

 

Infantry get obsec.

 

Make all their weapons ignore damage modifiers.

 

Or give axes and fists flat 3.

 

I simply don't like how they play right now with troop spam.

 

Haven't tried dread spam since the changes maybe I'll give that a go.

 

Jeebus gw.

[Madmark666]

Out of curiosity has anyone played against marines with Armor of Contempt yet? It seems like it'll really hurt our axe units but I haven't had a chance to get any games in for months. Interested to hear someone's experience against it.

Edited June 27, 2022 by Madmark666
Typo

[sairence]

I ve played various games against AoC-armies with my Guard and my Knights. Fighting with AP-2 is a frustrating experience against them. Basically, unless it's high volume, cheap AP 0 or AP -3 or higher, it struggles to feel worth it.

[Madmark666]

On paper it looks like it's not going to be a lot of fun, I need to give it a try though. I'm currently running allarus and wardens both with axes so a little bit of a stinker that they're going to have much lessened effect. My group plays crusade so if AoC feels overbearing I'll make the argument to find a workaround.

[sairence]

It's worth keeping in mind that the balance dataslate is for matched play. Crusade usually falls under narrative, so doesn't apply there by default. Best to chat with your group about it though

[Madmark666]

That's actually the point I've been trying to make to my group. We've been playing for decades so we all still sort of have the out of date mindset that we should follow the rules used by events. The thing is none of us play outside our group these days so there's no need to be slavishly devoted to that way of thinking anymore.

Edited June 29, 2022 by Madmark666

[Noserenda]

Exactly that Madmark, and i think ive gotten it through to the core group at least, helped along by how bloaty matched play is these days! 

Should mention im still low key annoyed SoS rhinos at least dont get armour of contempt for some reason