Throne of Light (Dawn of Fire 4) review threads

[DukeLeto69]

 

How far we going to let this go? Maybe I need to look over the forum rules.

I know that might sound weird and maybe you should take a seat before reading this and probably seems to come from out of nowhere but pssst, that's our job. ;)

 

@DukeLeto: even with a typo, I make myself clear. :P

It was the best typo ever. I totally LOLLED

[MarineRaider]

I just finished reading this, I think I liked it.

 

Also, can someone point out how to do spoiler tags, looked at forum rules and did not see them anywhere. My thanks.

[Petitioner's City]

I just finished reading this, I think I liked it.

 

Also, can someone point out how to do spoiler tags, looked at forum rules and did not see them anywhere. My thanks.

Hi there, it's hopefully simple :) if you put "spoiler" in a pair of square brackets, you'll open a spoiler box. To close it you put "/spoiler" in square brackets after the text.

 

I.e.

 

Example

[MarineRaider]

I generally have to read books several times as admittedly sometimes the bolder porn gets tedious. What I like about this series is the " good guys" are finally getting a boost. Things I would have expected after the HH to happen ( galvanize 1 million planets and muster several Primarchs and go crush the traitors) looks to be happening.

 

But why I wanted to read this book...

 

The Star Child, the rebirth of the Master of Mankind and the reckoning that has been long in coming. I am all in for Him to come back and kick ass. This book continues throwing hints, mis-directions and clues as the previous ones. I am not sure where they are going with this but it is obvious the Emperor is juiced up and the entire Imperium is changing. The Inquisitor himself says his power is changing, he has power now that he never had before and it's attributed to the E. There was plenty I was not fond of in the book, namely the way the Templars are portrayed, in fact I hated it. Maybe that will change in subsequent readings.

[Karhedron]

The Star Child, the rebirth of the Master of Mankind and the reckoning that has been long in coming.

As an old-timer, I am really excited to see this plot line getting hints again.

[Scribe]

I look forward to the impending schism and civil war.

[theSpirea]

Finished it the the other and it was quite disappointing, and I liked Avenging Son. ToL is the weakest book in the series so far for me.

 

My main issue with novel is that it's extremely dry and lifeless. It reads like a necessary semi-filler. The BT+Lucerne plot feels forced and added just to be done with it and explain what happened with the Primaris reinforcements and Custodes, and how Lucerne ends up joining BT. The rest is there just to explain the events.

 

BL is shifting from the failed introduction of Primaris as faster/better/stronger to yeah, they're all that but they are soulless machines. Now it gets mentioned all the time and Haley sure isn't subtle about it. It suffers from cliché dialogues and enemies are strong/weak as plot requires. The Fabian's scene with the Terminator was ridiculous. We had to have that pause for b-rated villain's speech just for him to die a few seconds later.

 

The only part I enjoyed was Tharador and Tenebrus. And hints Yheng is going to play an important role.

[Red_Shift]

I’m now at chapter 24 and I’m struggling to see how Haley is going to pull this all together. There are tons of different characters and sub plots and I cant really get a sense of the overall narrative. It’s a bit disappointing as I normally love books by Haley but this feels forced somehow.

[Orange Knight]

I'm on chapter 12 and I find it very enjoyable. It's concluded some plots from the 1st book.

 

I'm listening to it in audio format, and perhaps the excellent narration might be adding to my enjoyment. I agree that it has a lot of characters and the potential scope is quite expansive.

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

Oof.

 

I'm generally a Haley fan, but this was about as "paint by numbers" a story as I've seen from him.

 

And annoyingly, he managed to retcon the Pariah Nexus events yet again. The discovery of the Nexus never did jibe with the official 9th-Ed tie-in launch novel Indomitus. Then there was the storyline in Avenging Son that was simply left hanging (intentionally) but could have contradicted either or both. Well, as it was resolved in retrospect with Throne of Light, it more or less resonates with the lore bits in Pariah (although still a little off as Pariah has Battle Group Kallides setting out for the Nexus at a dead run from the jump whereas Throne of Light  reveals that they were only tasked with that duty well after Fleet Primus had left Terra, but overall a minor discrepancy).

 

However, Indomitus is now completely out of whack canon-wise, as it takes place nine years into the Crusade and yet the Imperium is somehow still unaware of the Necron threat in the Pariah Nexus or their ability to still the Warp... something they now are known to have discovered at least half a decade earlier.

 

And it's not like this is a shirttail out-of-communication Firstborn Space Marine chapter... it's a full-Primaris company of Guilliman's own Ultramarines.

 

And NO, there are no Warp shenanigans that can explain this away. The fact that the Primaris company has been fighting the Crusade for nine years is a big deal. And they didn't fight those nine years in a bubble. The new Captain and Lieutenant were trained back on Mars at the same time the senior Lieutenant was fighting with the fleet. It's nine years into the Crusade for ALL of them.

 

Basically, long-range planning for both Black Library and 40K's own lore just seems to be an unprofessional "spray and pray" affair that gets worse with every attempt to paint over the existing mess.

[Xin Ceithan]

Out of sheer interest :

is there anything of note happening on the Word Bearer side of things, seeing as they bring in Kor Phaeron for this ?

( Or am I better of ignoring this whole thing :p )

[Emperor Ming]

Much info on the impending return of the emperor?

 

I read the star child is mentioned

[Petitioner's City]

Out of sheer interest :

is there anything of note happening on the Word Bearer side of things, seeing as they bring in Kor Phaeron for this ?

( Or am I better of ignoring this whole thing )

 

They have clean ships....

 

Oh and portable baths!

Edited May 4, 2022 by Petitioner's City

[Petitioner's City]

Much info on the impending return of the emperor?

 

I read the star child is mentioned

 

 

 

So it's not clear - which is best for the setting, for sure! There is a vision which is core to the plot, experienced by the lead astropath on the core planet. In the end, both Rostov and a chaotic sorcerer, Tenebrus, experience it.

 

When assessing the vision with Admiral Athagey, Fabian and Lucerne at the novel's conclusion, Rostov discusses the Star-Child phenomenon:

 

 

 

‘Fabian Guelphrain. I understand that your historitors have made great strides in cataloguing the data-logs of the relay.’

 

How he knew that, Fabian did not know. He could have guessed, he could have intuited it with his powers, but he said it with such certainty it was obvious he just knew, for a fact. That suggested informants somewhere. Fabian was not surprised.

 

‘We have.’

 

‘And you have noticed a pattern?’

 

‘We have.’

 

‘Will you share with us what that pattern is?’

 

Fabian cleared his throat. Even he could not deny a direct request from an inquisitor.

 

‘It was as Adept Rumagoi said. A sense of immanence. A sense of overwhelming power. There are multiple references to a winged figure seated on a throne. That figure stands. I’m no expert in the warp but I can take a guess at what that might mean.’

 

‘I have seen this too. At the end there, when the choir began to speak as one. They said, “He is coming.”’

 

‘Is it…’ said Fabian. His mouth was inexplicably dry. He could not bring himself to voice the thought. ‘Is it Him?’

 

‘That is the question, is it not?’ Rostov shifted decisively in his chair, leaning in, the action of a man who has taken an important decision. ‘I will tell you something few people know. Some time ago, there was a notable action undertaken by a pair of inquisitors named Alexio and Fortez, a successful endeavour. Despite the fact that the pair of them had diametrically opposing views on many matters of philosophy, they deemed this particular threat so great they combined forces.

 

‘The target of this action was a group named the Cult of the Star Child. There was fanciful talk among this cult that the Star Child was some kind of benevolent entity that would lead mankind to salvation, perhaps an expression of the Emperor, god made flesh again. It was all lies, and the cult was rooted out, and destroyed at a gathering on Levilnor IV with the aid of the Salamanders Chapter of the Adeptus Astartes. However, four of their leaders escaped.’

 

‘Why are you telling me this?’

 

‘Because I wonder if this evil is seeping back into the universe.’ Rostov turned his glass around in his gloved hands. ‘Belief is a very dangerous thing.’ He leaned forward a little further, and Fabian thought he seemed old beyond his years. 

 

Of the vision itself, we are told of two views:

 

 

Inquisitor Leonid Rostov felt warmth on his face, and sand between the toes of his bare feet. A strong wind blew. His eyes were closed, his vision pink and patterned with veins.

 

He tried to open his eyes. But it was not his face. It was not his sight.

 

What are you showing me, Mistress Sov? he thought.

 

She gave no reply.

 

The face of the person he was seeing through moved. Rostov’s consciousness followed it, but not exactly, sliding afterwards as if reacting a half-second too late. But he could feel. His awareness stretched through the being. It was a man, face itching pleasantly with a beard full of salt. He was strong, with muscles that moved easily, and he was content. He let out a long breath, and opened his eyes.

 

Whiteness at first, before his sight adjusted, showing Rostov a brilliant indigo sky, hardly a cloud to mar it. A beach of sand whose colour approached that of snow stretched away from him, curling around a boulder, and sloping steeply down to an ocean as dark as the sky. Wind-sculpted ridges of sand gave way at the tideline to smooth wetness. The steepness of the incline called abrupt breakers that jumped up from the water before crashing almost immediately down. The air smelled of salt and dimethyl sulphides. A world rich in life. When the man turned to the left, he looked upon a spiny forest, marching almost down to the high water mark.

 

Time jumped. The man was walking. He carried a pole over his shoulder, a cloth bag dangling from the end. 

 

 

 

 

And for Tenebrus, a Chaotic sorcerer:

 

 

Tenebrus floated upwards over the bridge to the centre of the relay. Visions flooded into him from the minds of the astropaths being consumed by his shades.

 

He saw pleas of help from dying worlds.

 

He felt the regret and misery of people drained by their toils.

 

He felt the pride of others that they served their god.

 

Fragments of messages from a lost fleet.

 

The rantings of a corrupted astropath on a world fallen to Chaos.

 

Refugees calling for assistance that would never come.

 

He saw a child, a man, a golden figure, a seated warlord writhing in pain.

 

This last was different. This was not a message or a guilty emotion. He zeroed in on it, pushing aside all the thought forms and jumbled feelings of the dying psykers. There were strata to the suffering here, horrors accreted round the grit of existence, the layers in the blackest of pearls, but as he pushed through them, he glimpsed a beach where the sun shone, bright and innocent. He saw it for what it was: true clairvoyance, not allegorical thought or a trick of the warp. As he immersed himself in the echoes of Mistress Sov’s great revelation, he could feel the ocean breeze. He could smell the salt. It was a world, untouched by the warp or by the war. But where?

 

That, he could not discern.

 

There was a flash, a man, a woman, a village, and wrapped in a blanket, no idea of its importance, the child.

 

A stab of pain felt at several removes chased the vision away. The astropaths were failing by the dozen. He heard their death screams. He saw the pillars of their soul-light spiking from their bodies. The warp was pressing in. Each fleeing soul had so much power that the fabric of reality was eroding as they passed from one reality to the next. Danger approached.

 

The idea of the child is discussed before too:

 

 

‘What have you seen?’ Kor Phaeron asked. ‘Tell me exactly, so we may know we are in accordance.’

 

Tenebrus sighed. Spittle dripped from his wide mouth and pattered on the floor.

 

‘I have seen a golden figure bound to a throne. I have seen his chains break. I have heard the cry of a child. I have seen the crusade of Abaddon scattered, and the armies of believers destroyed. I have heard the death screams of gods.’ He shifted his stance. His staff clicked on the floor. ‘I have seen the end of everything we believe in, if we behave without wisdom,’ he said. ‘What do your own auguries say?’

 

‘They show many things, but all foretell disaster,’ said Kor Phaeron. The mounting points for his claws twitched. ‘Saints, visions, a rising tide of psykers, an indomitability of spirit within the Imperium where all hope should have died. The false faith of the corpse-worshippers is strong. The Anathema stirs. He no longer sleeps, but works through His servants. And there is something else.’ The cardinal’s expression darkened. ‘The Powers have granted me vision of a child. A most terrible child.’ For the briefest moment, his air of assurance departed him. ‘Its coming betokens doom for us all.’

 

‘The return of our most implacable foe.’

 

‘Perhaps.’ Kor Phaeron’s arrogance came back with redoubled force. He leaned forward, his sunken eyes ripe with hatred. ‘You will find this child for me. Abaddon commands it. I command it. You will find it now, or you will suffer the consequences. That is my command, and you will obey.’

 

 

 

‘My lord, if I may, what troubles you?’ said Yheng softly. She had learned to be wary of Tenebrus’ affable manner. A cruel temper waited beneath.

 

‘It is unfortunate that the Dark Cardinal is aware of the child’s existence. My daemons suggested we would have more time to find it ourselves…’ He frowned. ‘Now we will not catch the prize without others knowing. A shame. Still…’ He became thoughtful. ‘I will be able to perform a ritual of divination of the appropriate strength. If I am doing it at Kor Phaeron’s behest, he will not become suspicious, so every setback has within it the seeds of success, do you not think, Yheng?’

 

And finally, we have in the appendix:

 

 

THE STAR CHILD

 

The greatest consequence of this psychic tumult was to occur at the heart of the Imperium itself. Certain sects within the Ecclesiarchy began to preach that the Emperor was stirring, and their belief had some evidence to support it. As black as those days were, miracles abounded. On Talledus, the ghosts of the dead rose up. Imperial saints came to the aid of beleaguered armies. Readings of the Imperial Tarot made the difference between disaster and triumph, while reports of the mysterious Legion of the Damned became ever more frequent. Wherever Guilliman went, the warp storms stilled, allowing his armies to make rapid headway.

 

A number of strange coincidences and odd phenomena reached the primarch’s ears. He discounted them at first, but as time went on, he was unable to do so, and became disquieted. All across the Imperium were people who claimed to have been visited or guided by the Emperor. Many of these were burned as heretics, but in other cases their words and presence provided succour to the desperate, and encouraged those who had no hope of salvation from other quarters to fight back against mankind’s enemies.

 

A few years after the crusade began, visions of a golden infant interspersed with those of a blindingly radiant being rising from a throne began to be reported across the astropathic network. Beginning in the Segmentum Solar, and confined at first to background noise, the sort of low-grade psychic interference churned up by the currents of the warp, these visions became clearer, and spread. Though their import was hotly debated, certain seers both loyal and traitor interpreted the visions as a possible sign of direct action by the God-Emperor, leading to a great outpouring of faith on the Imperial side that was matched only by the enemy’s dismay.

 

Among the most heretical interpretations were parallels made with the insidious belief in the ‘Star Child’, promulgated by a cult which had been destroyed some years before the Great Rift opened. The news of these visions was to cause great upheaval within the Imperium, as many of the mighty suspected them to be a trick of the enemy, while others insisted they were of divine origin. The factional nature of Imperial politics was complicated further as ideological lines were drawn, sometimes to be defended with violence. Still others, more learned than most, and not all of them human, were deeply troubled by these supposed miracles.

 

As a result, certain esoteric orders on both sides were spurred into action, desperate to learn the truth and exploit it before their enemies could, whatever that truth might be…

 

 

All very interesting!

Edited May 5, 2022 by Petitioner's City

[DukeLeto69]

So hoping this ties back into Abnett’s Bequin books in some way!

[Petitioner's City]

So hoping this ties back into Abnett’s Bequin books in some way!

 

I really doubt it; more so, I really hope not. The time difference is there - those books are about 400 years before - ie. before everything we mostly know about 40k for the past 30 years, and when most things have been set. More so, it's just too much small universe syndrome, which harms the setting far more than strengthens it.

 

A more "same time" connection would be Covenant, as it basically is the same issue, but from the "other" side - Horusians. But equally I wouldn't want that connection either. Let these things be weird little pockets of the distant galaxy, please, not some small universe where everyone and everything of note is connected by one or two degrees of separation. 

 

The final thing is that the series is only about the first 12 years of the Crusade; and it's set before Dark Imperium and several other texts. There won't be anything in this series that upsets the status quo established at the start of the Plague Wars trilogy, or that of the background lore in the rulebooks for 9th or possibly even 8th. Rather, what happens after Godblight - whenever we encounter such a book - might be where bigger things begin to happen, although even then that will be set "behind" the lore of 8th and 9th edition we've had for a long time (namely, Guilliman going to Imperium Nihilus, etc) as well as more recent lore (the series is colouring in the Psychic Awakening, nicely).

Edited May 5, 2022 by Petitioner's City

[DukeLeto69]

 

 

So hoping this ties back into Abnett’s Bequin books in some way!

I really doubt it; more so, I really hope not. The time difference is there - those books are about 400 years before - ie. before everything we mostly know about 40k for the past 30 years, and when most things have been set. More so, it's just too much small universe syndrome, which harms the setting far more than strengthens it.

 

A more "same time" connection would be Covenant, as it basically is the same issue, but from the "other" side - Horusians. But equally I wouldn't want that connection either. Let these things be weird little pockets of the distant galaxy, please, not some small universe where everyone and everything of note is connected by one or two degrees of separation.

 

The final thing is that the series is only about the first 12 years of the Crusade; and it's set before Dark Imperium and several other texts. There won't be anything in this series that upsets the status quo established at the start of the Plague Wars trilogy, or that of the background lore in the rulebooks for 9th or possibly even 8th. Rather, what happens after Godblight - whenever we encounter such a book - might be where bigger things begin to happen, although even then that will be set "behind" the lore of 8th and 9th edition we've had for a long time (namely, Guilliman going to Imperium Nihilus, etc) as well as more recent lore (the series is colouring in the Psychic Awakening, nicely).

I hear you re “small universe thing” and totally get your reluctance in that respect. I would normally wholeheartedly agree with having a wealth of unconnected stories and pockets of activity across the galaxy, but I still think something as afoot...

 

Abnett needed permission for what he is doing in Bequin.

 

He has stated this has ramifications for 40k beyond just his Inquisition stories.

 

As of Penitent we know (we think) that Valdor is TYK and up to something big in the warp.

 

Abnett has been building a meta narrative across his HH books and Inquisitor books with Ennuncia. Not too much of a stretch to think he may pull in the Perpetuals. There has also been his supportive references to the Star Child lore.

 

Despite the 400-500 year gap we know plans take centuries to come to fruition (and time flows differently in the warp) AND Valdor took 9,500 years to get to where he is in Penitent!

 

To my mind it isn’t beyond the realms of possibility that the actions in the Bequin trilogy somehow impact on or lead to events in the Gathering Storm ie maybe they enable the Great Rift to happen. That increased psychic activity leads to the psychic awakening and that in turn enables The Emperor to “wake up”. Maybe this has been Valdor’s plan and goal for ten millennia but the final fruition of his plans will come into being after the Dark Imperium books and the new edition setting?

 

Things can be sequentially connected rather than concurrent.

 

10-20 years ago Abnett’s novels really were his own corner of the setting, the “Abnettverse” but it is clear to me that Abnett’s ideas are becoming more front and centre in the setting as illustrated by the HH series.

Edited May 5, 2022 by DukeLeto69

[Scribe]

The potential that this is my break point with a setting that's been part of my life for 25+ years, is very high. :(

[Orange Knight]

The potential that this is my break point with a setting that's been part of my life for 25+ years, is very high. :(

What's wrong, Scribe? Air your grievances.

 

I have nearly finished the book and have enjoyed it for the most part. Is anything in particular of trouble to you?

[Karhedron]

I remember Ian Watson's "Draco" when it was first published as "Inquisitor". It warms the cockles of a long-beard's heart to see the Star Child cropping up again in the fluff after all these years.

[Moonreaper666]

I remember Ian Watson's "Draco" when it was first published as "Inquisitor". It warms the cockles of a long-beard's heart to see the Star Child cropping up again in the fluff after all these years.

Though this sounds different from the Star Child of Old Lore

 

Sounds like Reincarnation which is going to hurt the Imperium more than Chaos

 

Can't have Two Emperors in the Galaxy

[Scribe]

 

The potential that this is my break point with a setting that's been part of my life for 25+ years, is very high. :(

What's wrong, Scribe? Air your grievances.

 

I have nearly finished the book and have enjoyed it for the most part. Is anything in particular of trouble to you?

Is this a genuine question?

[DukeLeto69]

 

 

The potential that this is my break point with a setting that's been part of my life for 25+ years, is very high. :(

What's wrong, Scribe? Air your grievances.

 

I have nearly finished the book and have enjoyed it for the most part. Is anything in particular of trouble to you?

Is this a genuine question?

I would like to know too. Because I feel I am in a different place in being actually quite excited about the potential changes coming to the setting.

 

Pretty sure we are heading for a schism within the Imperium. Some hints in Gav Thorpe’s Our Martyred Lady. Plus Moonreaper’s point in spoilers above.

 

In some ways this would make commercial sense for GW. We know Imperial Space Marines are the biggest sellers. We know in the past the HH was a construct to minimise production costs. A civil war could happen again!

Edited May 5, 2022 by DukeLeto69

[Moonreaper666]

Guess the Emperor can't be sharded unlile the Ctan or Magnus

A younger split of the Emperor would revitalize the Imperium but will cause legitimacy issue with the older one causing the Imperium to be torn in two

Expect Chaos, especially the Word Bearers, to exploit this

[Scribe]

 

 

 

The potential that this is my break point with a setting that's been part of my life for 25+ years, is very high.

What's wrong, Scribe? Air your grievances.

 

I have nearly finished the book and have enjoyed it for the most part. Is anything in particular of trouble to you?

Is this a genuine question?

I would like to know too. Because I feel I am in a different place in being actually quite excited about the potential changes coming to the setting.

 

Pretty sure we are heading for a schism within the Imperium. Some hints in Gav Thorpe’s Our Martyred Lady. Plus Moonreaper’s point in spoilers above.

 

In some ways this would make commercial sense for GW. We know Imperial Space Marines are the biggest sellers. We know in the past the HH was a construct to minimise production costs. A civil war could happen again!

 

 

In the spirit that its a legit question.

 

Cast your mind's back to the 'Quote' that has greeted us at the front of novels, and rule books.

 

No, not the one today, even further. To the formative edition that in my not so humble view, set the tone for the setting we have had for 20+ years.

 

 

For more than a hundred centuries the Emperor has sat immobile on the Golden Throne of Earth.

 

He is the master of mankind by the will of the gods and master of a million worlds by the might of his inexhaustible armies.

 

He is a rotting carcass writhing invisibly with power from the Dark Age of Technology. He is the Carrion Lord of the Imperium for whom a thousand souls die every day, for whom blood is drunk and flesh is eaten.

 

Human Blood and human flesh - the stuff of which the Imperium is made.

 

To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable.

 

This is the tale of those times. It is a universe you can live in today - if you dare - for this is a dark and terrible era where you will find little comfort or hope.

 

...

 

Forget the power of technology, science and common humanity.

 

Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for there is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage, and slaughter and the laughter of thirsting gods.

 

But the universe is a big place and, whatever happens, you will not be missed...

 

 

Obviously, the core remains true today, with small edits here or there, but at some point there was an addition, to highlight the (blighted) Imperial focus really, in discussing the scale of the Emperor's armies. It is a small shift in tone, considering "...for whom Blood is drunk and flesh is eaten. Human blood and human flesh..."

 

So whats my problem? Spoilers I guess.

 

 

Its not the Star Child fluff. Thats totally fine. Its not an uncontrolled wave of psyker activity and mutation. Again, thats the lore, thats how it should go down.

 

My problem is, and likely will be, in the execution. Someone here posted a 'What if...' on how the return of Roboute should have gone down. Massive dissent, civil war, the Imperium tearing itself apart while its enemies capitalized on the chaos.

 

That, is how it should have been, and if (when) the Emperor somehow returns, it should be even worse, because that is what is accurate to the tone of the setting.

 

The setting is not, and should never be, one of progress. It should remain as it is, a tragedy. The Emperor should be damned to an eternity of twilight 'half life'. The 1000's who die for the Astronomicon should continue to be burned out, preventing the very apotheosis that could save (or damn) the species.

 

Having the Emperor return, if done as it was with Roboute, would simply be a net gain, especially if we are to take the spoilers at face value, and some of the questionable writing from Godblight, for the Imperium, and that is simply not what the setting is about.

 

It simply isn't.

 

Because lets be honest, he wont rise as the 5th God of Chaos. He will be...well AoS Sigmar...

 

 

Ultimately, I loathe that they turned the setting, into a story with a meta plot.

 

EDIT: This is also why I hope, to any God that will hear me, that they dont screw up the finale of the Siege of Terra, because then, that setting is locked, as far as I'm concerned.

Edited May 6, 2022 by Scribe