Lackluster reveal stream again

[Cpt_Reaper]

 

Tbh, not having announced WE as a separate faction would have been an incredible bad move:

 

Imagine buying a book without knowing they were removed, because you’re out of the loop with the rumors. Not everyone follows closely and doing it on stream probably has a higher reach than a warcom article alone.

 

Personally I would be pretty annoyed/pissed about buying a codex because there was no clear communication about major changes to it.

 

Wouldn’t you fee the same?

 

That's why I said it should have been announced after the entire Warhammer Fest stream, not to not have it announced at all. WE needed to be announced, but how it was done was not good enough in my opinion.

 

I would have to disagree, I felt last night's reveal actually had more content and less waffle from Adam and Eddie than previous online ones.

 

I don't play Chaos (although I might now start...) or really have an interest in Squats but I really enjoyed the model reveals.

 

I also found the fact that points updates will now be free and the CP changes in matched play missions exciting, and enjoyed the AoD Origins teaser.

 

Plus we have boxed games tomorrow, which they said have 40K content, and 30K on Saturday, which in theory is also relevant for 40K.

 

I don't mind GW bashing butI think it's unfair to say last night's show was "lacklustre" - for a 60 minute event i don't think they could have packed any more in tbh.

 

Then 60 minutes wasn't enough. Why not go for 2 or even 3 hours? Why do they insist on a 1 hour stream?

 

I hate having to "bash" on GW, as I've found too many voices online see it as a sport. I've recently tried to bring a positive voice to online discussions but now I feel severely disappointed in GW streams and have for some time.

[Guest]

Simple solution don't watch.

[Doghouse]

I stopped watching them ages ago and just drop in here to check the rumours section to be honest. Most of it gets spoiled in advance by leaks anyway.

[Guest]

I stopped watching them ages ago and just drop in here to check the rumours section to be honest. Most of it gets spoiled in advance by leaks anyway.

The streams do seem a little laboured it can't be denied.

 

I watch the ones that interest me. Today there was absolutely nothing for me, but I was happy for one of my friends who is a dirty traitor.

[WrathOfTheLion]

The only one I decided to go out of my way and watch was the Adepticon one on the hope we would get 2E Horus Heresy. They didn't disappoint me, things like the Chaos Knights were cherries on top.

 

This one I got a few glimpses of it, but I had a meeting for work during the first ~30 minutes, so didn't really get to watch. I would've put on the side during work just to see the Chaos stuff though.

Edited May 5, 2022 by WrathOfTheLion

[MARK0SIAN]

It’s worth noting that Warhammer fests have generally been more focussed on one system over another in cycles. One year 40K is the main focus, the next year it’s AoS, then it’s something like specialist games. When a particular game isn’t the focus that year you could very often be forgiven for thinking that game doesn’t even exist as they put so little content out about it.

 

This year Heresy seems like it’ll be the main focus so I wouldn’t expect absolutely loads for any of the other systems. Compared to what was revealed for 40K in the year they focussed on AoS 2, yesterday was a fairly sizeable reveal.

[Halandaar]

What GW should be doing is what other modern companies do in many gaming industries beyond wargaming too; wave release that has something for each faction.

 

You mean like:

• AoS 2nd Broken Realms - New models for Destruction, Seraphon, Hedonites, Sylvaneth, Cities of Sigmar, Stormcast, Nighthaunt, Slaves to Darkness, Lumineth
• 40K 8th Psychic Awakening - New models for Eldar, Drukhari, Chaos Marines, Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Tau, Orks, Space Wolves, AdMech, Necrons, Sororitas, Harlequins, Inquisition
• AoS 1st Malign Portents - New models for Stormcast, Gloomspite Gitz, Nighthaunt, Slaves to Darkness
• 40K 7th Gathering Storm - New models for Sororitas, Inquisition, AdMech, Ynnari, Grey Knights, Ultramarines, Fallen

[Noserenda]

Theyve done longer streams, theyve done faster streams, theyve done wafflier streams, it seems clear to me they are dialling in what works and what doesn't. I do vastly prefer the current format spread over a few days with very specific contents personally, because hoping for more Titanicus constantly overshadows all the other releases in an unfair way otherwise, at least this way i get the profound disappointment out of the way early :P 

But yeah, go in with zero expectations and you can only be impressed, i wasnt going to watch this one but ended up having to be sat at my desk doing some mindless work that let me have the stream running so thought why not? And lo it was much better than anticipated.

[Captain Idaho]

 

What GW should be doing is what other modern companies do in many gaming industries beyond wargaming too; wave release that has something for each faction.

 

 

You mean like:

• AoS 2nd Broken Realms - New models for Destruction, Seraphon, Hedonites, Sylvaneth, Cities of Sigmar, Stormcast, Nighthaunt, Slaves to Darkness, Lumineth
• 40K 8th Psychic Awakening - New models for Eldar, Drukhari, Chaos Marines, Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Tau, Orks, Space Wolves, AdMech, Necrons, Sororitas, Harlequins, Inquisition
• AoS 1st Malign Portents - New models for Stormcast, Gloomspite Gitz, Nighthaunt, Slaves to Darkness
• 40K 7th Gathering Storm - New models for Sororitas, Inquisition, AdMech, Ynnari, Grey Knights, Ultramarines, Fallen

Well you're proving my point. You can name 2 instances where GW have released models across factions all at once, both of which were previous editions and years ago.

[Noserenda]

I like the idea of multi faction books, but that does mean more books, which is a big hate for people and i would worry about the bloat after a while, especially for Marines who already have enough problems! 

I did read somewhere that "waves" of themed models are more likely to encourage a new army commitment than isolated units but im damned if i can remember where. 

[Lord Marshal]

If I had a gripe this time it's that they pitched the League banners front and centre, which obviously fed into expectations they'd get a decent showing.

 

What we got was one model, and not even the full unit that model's from.

 

The Chaos Space Marine stuff was pretty substantial, but the issue with these events is people who don't collect those factions have little reason to buy into the hype. If anything I think the reaction this time was MORE positive because of the leaks, as people didn't really have any expectations beyond what we knew was coming.

[Captain Idaho]

I like the idea of multi faction books, but that does mean more books, which is a big hate for people and i would worry about the bloat after a while, especially for Marines who already have enough problems! 

 

I did read somewhere that "waves" of themed models are more likely to encourage a new army commitment than isolated units but im damned if i can remember where.

 

Well I wouldn't want multi-faction books as such, just releases together at the same time so we don't have all the Necron, Orks, Guard, Mechanicus players etc bored that it's a 3 month period for Chaos Marines, followed by more Primaris, followed by another faction isn't there own...

 

The biggest issue is the fact we see sales of Codex books as self contained armies rather than a free to download version and hard copy with the unit.

 

GW's own business model doesn't work out well anyway, since it new models come out outside the Codex and they have to release a supplement book to support it in any case.

[Halandaar]

Well you're proving my point. 

 

 

Not really, given that your "point" was they don't do it at all.

 

 

As for "previous editions and years ago" - clearly the pattern is that they do this sort of thing after the Codex cycle for a given edition has finished prior to the launch of the next edition. We are not currently in one of those periods, so obviously they will not be doing it now. We could reasonably expect something like this for 40K in 6-8 months time as a ramp-up to 10th Edition next summer.

 

Anyway, your whole premise ("It still works on the basis of a Codex and thus exclusive models for that faction.") is flawed anyway; Codex with Models is just one of the ways GW releases models, but this edition has already seen non-Codex-linked model releases for Guard, Marines, Tau, Sisters, Chaos Marines and Daemons presented through books or boxes which are useful to more than a single faction at a time. Other campaigns in previous editions offered the same; see Vigilus, or Shield of Baal, or Sanctus Reach, or Damocles, or any number of other ones I didn't recall.

[Captain Idaho]

It's a leap to pretend that GW doesn't release the majority of their faction content in sequential, isolated release waves and not all factions together.

 

Campaign books? How many models get released alongside Campaign books for the various factions? Not many, if any at all...

 

It's not flawed at all. You're pointing to singular models released for a faction, or an exception years ago, then saying it disproves the statement that GW releases product in factions specific waves too much and should do a more even wave release common to most other companies.

 

By implication, your position is that GW releases its products to consumers in broad waves, which is clearly not happening. You even confirmed such in your post that GW isn't doing such.

 

So what are you contesting then?

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

My issue is not the amount of things for Chaos Space Marines shown off. My issue is the lack of things shown for 40k as a whole, on the 40k day of warhammer fest.

 

Chaos got:

• 2x HQ choices (Daemon Prince, Dark Commune)
• 1x Troops (Cultists)
• 3x Elites (Possessed Marines, Accursed Cultists, Torments)

Leagues of Votann got:

• A single Hernkyn Pioneer trike

World Eaters got:

• a teaser for their codex

Leagues should have shown off a HQ, the entire basic troops unit and the trike.

World Eaters should not have been announced during the stream. Either show off a HQ, Terminators and the new Berzerkers or don't show anything and announce their Codex after Warhammer Fest on the WarCom site.

the squat troop unit might be revealed for kill team.

[MechaMan]

I play Chaos Space Marines. They are my second largest army behind my Dark Angels. So I was, and still am, excited for our upcoming release.

 

I stand by my statement. The 40k day was lacking in 40k. There are now 4 factions yet to receive their release this edition: Daemons, Guard, Leagues and now World Eaters. 4 factions that should have been shown off on the 40k day of Warhammer Fest.

 

Comparing to previous streams and Warhammer Fests since going online and my criticism remains the same. The streams have been too short and too light on actual reveals. And for every teaser shown during a reveal stream, I usually just stop watching.

 

For how AoS is treated in terms of streams/reveals etc, I don't have any investment in that game. However, if what N1Sb said is remotely true, I weep for the playerbase. GW needs to do better for all of their systems.

I was pretty disappointed there were no Guard reveals at all, although I love that I can now say Squats AND The Lost and the Damned came back before the Guard did haha. But equally, I think that we should know what to expect from these reveals by now (not much) and that expecting more than that is probably unwarranted by this stage. It’s always an hour and a half of waffle and better to pick up the summary on WC.

[Halandaar]

It's a leap to pretend that GW doesn't release the majority of their faction content in sequential, isolated release waves and not all factions together.

 

I made no such assertion. You stated they should release things without them being attached to Codexes; I simply pointed out that they do already do that. They have even done that already this year. 

 

Campaign books? How many models get released alongside Campaign books for the various factions? Not many, if any at all...

 

Was the list of four different campaigns that featured a total of 38 kits spread across 25 different factions not sufficient?

 

You're pointing to singular models released for a faction, or an exception years ago,

 

Four "exceptions" that all happened in a regular and observable pattern don't sound much like exceptions to me. 

 

then saying it disproves the statement that GW releases product in factions specific waves too much

 

"Too much" is not what you actually said though. Your initial statement amounted to "they only ever do it this way" - that's what I'm "contesting"

 

An example; neither CSM nor Astra Militarum have had their Codexes yet, but between them they have had more new kits released in 9th Edition than AdMech, Death Guard, Drukhari, Grey Knights and Tyranids combined, all of whom have already received their Codexes. 

 

For a different example, AdMech have received more kits alongside campaign books than they've gotten with their last two Codexes combined.

 

Both of these should demonstrate the flaw in the assertion that "GW only releases stuff with Codexes"

 

By implication, your position is that GW releases its products to consumers in broad waves, which is clearly not happening.

 

No, my position is that GW already releases kits in different ways. Often with a Codex/Battletome update yes, but sometimes as standalone releases, and sometimes even with a campaign that covers multiple factions at the same time, which is the exact type of release you're saying they should be doing, which they already do on a regular and predictable basis.

[Captain Idaho]

You're setting up a strawman - I never said anything about releases not having attachment to a Codex. You're misrepresenting my position.

 

Yes I'm ignoring AoS for the argument, simply because I have less experience with it. But no, releasing some 38 kits (your claim) over 6+ years, in 2 different gaming systems doesn't count as GW releasing products for each faction in waves with any consistency or regularity.

 

GW doesn't release waves of releases for each faction with any regular or predictable basis. When did they do that last for 40k? What's your definition of regularity or predictable, since GW keeps such things to themselves and it literally doesn't happen often or even recently. A few releases, such as Adeptus Mechanicus, got support over an extended time period to bring them up to speed as an army, but tell that to the wider community that sits there waiting on releases for years at a time.

 

Ultimately I think you've missed my point and I'm not sure why. The context of my post is quite clear but you're now itemising each part of my comments to pull them apart. I hope I've made it clearer for you if you didn't understand the first post anyway.

[Magos Takatus]

I must admit the showing was quite underwhelming for me but I'm no much of a Chaos guy. There is so much in the way of Chaos releases for either AoS or 40k that it feels like we are permanently on the cusp of new Chaos releases arriving. That's not really fair since it's like being fed up of seeing too many Imperium releases or Xenos releases but for me the Chaos fatigue is real. I like the Chaos Knights but space marine and daemon releases really aren't for me. It will hopefully make someone else's day. 

[Bryan Blaire]

Captain Idaho, since you brought it up - what does a “wave release with something for each faction” look like to you?  One model per faction, one squad per faction, one book per faction, etc., released every 3 months, 6 months, a year, etc.  What does it connect to - a specific theme, a certain Org slot, etc.?  How would it be incorporated into an army book/Codex?

 

I’m trying to figure out exactly what you mean for the discussion, because to me it sounds a lot like “GW should release a squad for each army every X arbitrary time (weeks, months, ?)”, but I’d really like to know what you are thinking about it when you say that.

 

Would they do a stream for each release wave and show off the new models only then?  How far ahead would be expected to see new units?

 

I’m still trying to wrap my head around what people’s expectations for a stream even are, if something like what has been done is lackluster?  How much do they have to show you?  Or is it just the amount of time taken - should GW do a “model vomit” every 3 months re: the next 3 months releases in like 20 minutes?

 

My expectation at this point is to just miss the live presentations.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

You're setting up a strawman - I never said anything about releases not having attachment to a Codex. You're misrepresenting my position.

 

Yes I'm ignoring AoS for the argument, simply because I have less experience with it. But no, releasing some 38 kits (your claim) over 6+ years, in 2 different gaming systems doesn't count as GW releasing products for each faction in waves with any consistency or regularity.

 

GW doesn't release waves of releases for each faction with any regular or predictable basis. When did they do that last for 40k? What's your definition of regularity or predictable, since GW keeps such things to themselves and it literally doesn't happen often or even recently. A few releases, such as Adeptus Mechanicus, got support over an extended time period to bring them up to speed as an army, but tell that to the wider community that sits there waiting on releases for years at a time.

 

Ultimately I think you've missed my point and I'm not sure why. The context of my post is quite clear but you're now itemising each part of my comments to pull them apart. I hope I've made it clearer for you if you didn't understand the first post anyway.

i read your post the same way he did.

Maybe he’s not misrepresenting your point, but you did not clearly state your point.

[gaurdian31]

I must admit the showing was quite underwhelming for me but I'm no much of a Chaos guy. There is so much in the way of Chaos releases for either AoS or 40k that it feels like we are permanently on the cusp of new Chaos releases arriving. That's not really fair since it's like being fed up of seeing too many Imperium releases or Xenos releases but for me the Chaos fatigue is real. I like the Chaos Knights but space marine and daemon releases really aren't for me. It will hopefully make someone else's day. 

 

I appreciate this post. I am not experiencing the Chaos fatigue, but I am glad that you appreciate that it will make someone's day as it certainly made mine. Hopefully they will be releasing something soon that makes yours. As long as it isn't more Space Marines. 

[Captain Idaho]

Wave releases like what we see from other companies, such as X wing. There's plenty of other examples we can look to. The context of the post is fairly obvious if you're familiar with video games that release updates or DLC, or other wargames. When a release comes out we see something for everyone. Regularly and openly for us all to enjoy.

 

Sure folk might not have such other experiences, but I somehow doubt that in a community such as this in this day and age.

 

So the idea that some Frater are unhappy with the 40K reveal stream isn't without merit. Which, as I led with my first words was my point.

 

I actually was ok with the Stream, personally, but I totally understand that the "wait your turn" approach isn't consumer friendly.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

Wave releases like what we see from other companies, such as X wing. There's plenty of other examples we can look to. The context of the post is fairly obvious if you're familiar with video games that release updates or DLC, or other wargames. When a release comes out we see something for everyone. Regularly and openly for us all to enjoy.

 

Sure folk might not have such other experiences, but I somehow doubt that in a community such as this in this day and age.

 

So the idea that some Frater are unhappy with the 40K reveal stream isn't without merit. Which, as I led with my first words was my point.

 

I actually was ok with the Stream, personally, but I totally understand that the "wait your turn" approach isn't consumer friendly.

just curious if you can reference a game that does releases the way you want, that has any where near the number of factions 40k has

 

If I’m not mistaken X-wing only has what? 4 factions? 6 at most? There’s what? 5 imperial factions alone in 40k?

 

A wave release with ‘something for everyone’ would either leave the rest of the year empty with nothing to look forward to, or each faction would get 1 unit released, a unit which would in some cases be a niche character unit that many in that factions may not even be interested in.

 

So limited releases focusing on one faction with a few other teases or reveals from a few other factions makes perfect sense.

 

Video game DLC is also a completely different situation from physical models…

[Captain Idaho]

The work that goes into video games is arguably greater than tabletop games, though they have much more sparse release schedules over a year as a result.

 

The amount of factions GW has in 40K is an argument for a more even spread of releases, not against. The amount of time you have to wait "for your turn" is crazy from a business perspective!

 

As for each faction getting 1 unit a year... does GW really have that poor a design studio? Likely a completely new, fresh policy would bring impetus and motivation to their release schedule and it could be easily done if the will was there, for an industry giant like GW.

 

Sure an army might only get 3-4 releases a year, but that works out better than 10 new releases every 4 years (and it's less than that usually)

 

I mean, what is there to contest in my posts? That GW is doing fine releasing everything in faction specific, 4 year cycles (except Primaris)? Some armies wait longer than 4 years!

 

I've already pointed out the examples where they've released models for a faction "outside their turn" are rare exceptions rather than the rule. Just ask Tyranid, Orks, Eldar or Necrons players how long they wait between releases.

Edited May 5, 2022 by Captain Idaho