Lackluster reveal stream again

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

The work that goes into video games is arguably greater than tabletop games, though they have much more sparse release schedules over a year as a result.

 

The amount of factions GW has in 40K is an argument for a more even spread of releases, not against. The amount of time you have to wait "for your turn" is crazy from a business perspective!

 

As for each faction getting 1 unit a year... does GW really have that poor a design studio? Likely a completely new, fresh policy would bring impetus and motivation to their release schedule and it could be easily done if the will was there, for an industry giant like GW.

 

Sure an army might only get 3-4 releases a year, but that works out better than 10 new releases every 4 years (and it's less than that usually)

 

I mean, what is there to contest in my posts? That GW is doing fine releasing everything in faction specific, 4 year cycles (except Primaris)? Some armies wait longer than 4 years!

 

I've already pointed out the examples where they've released models for a faction "outside their turn" are rare exceptions rather than the rule. Just ask Tyranid, Orks, Eldar or Necrons players how long they wait between releases.

so you can’t cite a game with a similar number of factions that does releases in the manner you want?

[Captain Idaho]

Your attempt to deflect my position aside hence why I ignored it initially and stuck to the subject at hand, but Mantic Games do so with their releases, at least pre-Covid times (I haven't followed them recently). I believe Infinity did but again it's been a while since I've followed them (didn't enjoy the mechanics) and it's worth pointing out that GW is massive compared to those companies, so proportionally they should be able to make more release for more factions.

 

But then maybe answer my points; do you think it's OK that GW leaves factions for years at a time with your preferred release schedule then?

 

Do you think think GW couldn't move to a business model that produces 4 or so Waves a year that have something for everyone in the game? If not, why not?

Edited May 5, 2022 by Captain Idaho

[jarms48]

I had incredibly low expectations. I knew it'd all be CSM and Squat related. Was not surprised it was disappointing. 

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

I personally don't watch the streams anymore. I actually like the presenters, but they don't give them a lot to work with. They basically can talk about the pictures, and maybe hint at a rule. It's basically a lot of hype without substance, and that is a shame because I think they would be pretty entertaining if they could tell us more. I probably would start watching them again if they cut it down to 30-45 minutes or gave them more to tell us. As is though I'm a lot happier just checking warhammer community the next day. 

 

I think wave releases are interesting subject, but someone should probably make separate topic for it.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

Your attempt to deflect my position aside hence why I ignored it initially and stuck to the subject at hand, but Mantic Games do so with their releases, at least pre-Covid times (I haven't followed them recently). I believe Infinity did but again it's been a while since I've followed them (didn't enjoy the mechanics) and it's worth pointing out that GW is massive compared to those companies, so proportionally they should be able to make more release for more factions.

 

But then maybe answer my points; do you think it's OK that GW leaves factions for years at a time with your preferred release schedule then?

 

Do you think think GW couldn't move to a business model that produces 4 or so Waves a year that have something for everyone in the game? If not, why not?

im not the one complaining, and saying things could be done better. Examples of someone doing it better is all I am asking for

 

I count 32 factions listed by GW on their website for 40k

And only 18 for mantic’s kings of war…that’s not even really close

Edited May 5, 2022 by Inquisitor_Lensoven

[Bryan Blaire]

X-wing isn’t a good comparison at all - their waves were like 2-6 ships at most, and that was for all factions, and it was every six months (not every three) - I played all the way through Xwing 1.0 and have collected some 2.0 ships as well.  FFG developed a total of 48 unique star fighter models and five Huge ships.  There were 73 total products for the game and they were released from 2012 to 2018.  That’s one product a month over the six year life of X-wing 1.0.

 

That would be like GW releasing the Dark Imperium starter models individually, along with some reprints in different sprue colors, along with the Plagueburst Crawler, Impulsor, Repulsor, Lord of Skulls, and Eldar Falcon over a period of six years.

 

There are 16 or so main factions in 40K, with probably another 15+ subfactions - even a single squad release for each faction every 6 months would be 32 squad boxes a year - with the attendant bitching if the only thing you got at the 6 month mark was a single HQ. And then you have to print rules for each of them and get those to sale as well (because you know that GW isn’t going to give the rules away free).

 

It may be doable for a bit during a switch over, but for full sustain that way, it would likely require a complete restructure of their business pacing.  It would also likely end any army boxes (because that would throw off the releases/require larger than single squad releases at a time for factions).

 

It’s hard to say whether that would actually be beneficial for GW in any way.

 

A faster release pace would be better, sure - maybe they could do something more along the lines of a single HQ or squad a year per faction, but if you think about it, if GW has moved to a 3 year edition cycle, there are enough basic factions to cover a release every month for a single faction at a time, and there would only be 4 months without a release (which could be devoted to a subfaction).  Then each faction would get two release months in an edition cycle - if they did a total of eight squads per faction split between those two months, you would actually have more squads released in a single edition than if they did a single squad per faction every six months (it would take four years to get the same eight squads).

 

The fact that they haven’t changed to it is likely indicative of both massive business inertia and the likelihood that they have explored something like the idea and written it off as not beneficial in some way - no matter what people think, GW’s business folks are hardly stupid and much of their business is likely the result of thorough analysis - we just don’t understand everything about their business to get exactly why they do things the way they do.  We know that they are working on model projects 3-5 years out, so there’s probably a backlog of materials waiting to be released, so there’s got to be the ideas there - so why haven’t they switched to some faster release pace - there’s got to be something in their pipeline that acts like a bottleneck on it.  I doubt that they are just withholding releases to piss off their potential consumers, there are business reasons for it, and for any proposal of switching to a new release pacing, you have to ask “Why couldn’t they do this?”  Some of it may be down to printing schedules on contracts for things like packaging and rule books, and probably many other things that business people could analyze, but there’s a reason I am in a biological field for lab stuff, not business management…

[Special Officer Doofy]

I count 32 factions listed by GW on their website for 40k

And only 18 for mantic’s kings of war…that’s not even really close

And if you only count death watch and Grey knights separately from space marines its only 22, and that's counting inquisition and assassins as a faction which they are a few models a peice. You better not be counting all the space marine supplements as separate factions. They are separate sub factions with the same main codex. And mantics is not a billion dollar company that does 100's of millions in sales...

 

The reveal streams have been crap for years. I just don't watch and just look at the articles after or go on here.

[Cpt_Reaper]

I regret making this thread. I am sorry everyone.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

 

I count 32 factions listed by GW on their website for 40k

And only 18 for mantic’s kings of war…that’s not even really close

And if you only count death watch and Grey knights separately from space marines its only 22, and that's counting inquisition and assassins as a faction which they are a few models a peice. You better not be counting all the space marine supplements as separate factions. They are separate sub factions with the same main codex. And mantics is not a billion dollar company that does 100's of millions in sales...

 

The reveal streams have been crap for years. I just don't watch and just look at the articles after or go on here.

each marine faction is a separate faction that gets its own releases so counting them is 100% valid because a release for BA does not mean that DA don’t need a release.

Even removing assassins and inquisition from the count GW still has 30 factions, making that game still no where close.

[Special Officer Doofy]

 

 

I count 32 factions listed by GW on their website for 40k

And only 18 for mantic’s kings of war…that’s not even really close

And if you only count death watch and Grey knights separately from space marines its only 22, and that's counting inquisition and assassins as a faction which they are a few models a peice. You better not be counting all the space marine supplements as separate factions. They are separate sub factions with the same main codex. And mantics is not a billion dollar company that does 100's of millions in sales...

 

The reveal streams have been crap for years. I just don't watch and just look at the articles after or go on here.

each marine faction is a separate faction that gets its own releases so counting them is 100% valid because a release for BA does not mean that DA don’t need a release.

Even removing assassins and inquisition from the count GW still has 30 factions, making that game still no where close.

No. They share a vast majority of the same releases. Short of characters/upgrade sprues and the few black templars units all the releases for years have been for all of them. And they share the same codex. Same faction, different subfactions. But this is getting all off topic.

Edited May 6, 2022 by Putrid Choir

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

 

 

 

I count 32 factions listed by GW on their website for 40k

And only 18 for mantic’s kings of war…that’s not even really close

And if you only count death watch and Grey knights separately from space marines its only 22, and that's counting inquisition and assassins as a faction which they are a few models a peice. You better not be counting all the space marine supplements as separate factions. They are separate sub factions with the same main codex. And mantics is not a billion dollar company that does 100's of millions in sales...

 

The reveal streams have been crap for years. I just don't watch and just look at the articles after or go on here.

each marine faction is a separate faction that gets its own releases so counting them is 100% valid because a release for BA does not mean that DA don’t need a release.

Even removing assassins and inquisition from the count GW still has 30 factions, making that game still no where close.

No. They share a vast majority of the same releases. Short of characters/upgrade sprues and the few black templars units all the releases for years have been for all of them. And they share the same codex. Same faction, different subfactions. But this is getting all off topic.

yet GW considers them separate enough to list them separately.

They get special rules, and I’d bet serious money 10th sees unique individual kits for them, with BT being the forerunner of that.

That’s irrelevant any way because general kits with upgrade sprues are still a faction specific release.

 

You’re just trying to artificially limit things to make your own point.

[Special Officer Doofy]

 

 

 

 

I count 32 factions listed by GW on their website for 40k

And only 18 for mantic’s kings of war…that’s not even really close

And if you only count death watch and Grey knights separately from space marines its only 22, and that's counting inquisition and assassins as a faction which they are a few models a peice. You better not be counting all the space marine supplements as separate factions. They are separate sub factions with the same main codex. And mantics is not a billion dollar company that does 100's of millions in sales...

 

The reveal streams have been crap for years. I just don't watch and just look at the articles after or go on here.

each marine faction is a separate faction that gets its own releases so counting them is 100% valid because a release for BA does not mean that DA don’t need a release.

Even removing assassins and inquisition from the count GW still has 30 factions, making that game still no where close.

No. They share a vast majority of the same releases. Short of characters/upgrade sprues and the few black templars units all the releases for years have been for all of them. And they share the same codex. Same faction, different subfactions. But this is getting all off topic.

yet GW considers them separate enough to list them separately.

They get special rules, and I’d bet serious money 10th sees unique individual kits for them, with BT being the forerunner of that.

That’s irrelevant any way because general kits with upgrade sprues are still a faction specific release.

 

You’re just trying to artificially limit things to make your own point.

Is that why right under the space marine tab the first one is just "space marine" and has the 94 purchaseable things shared between them? Which is about 50% more than any other faction? GW lists them separately because of the amount of players that play space marines. Ravenguard have 1 character, 1 supplement, 1 upgrade sprue, and dice/cards. Same with ironhands. That's it. Does not need its own tab. Not artificially limiting anything, just using the website layout that you brought up...

Edited May 6, 2022 by Putrid Choir

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

 

 

 

 

 

I count 32 factions listed by GW on their website for 40k

And only 18 for mantic’s kings of war…that’s not even really close

And if you only count death watch and Grey knights separately from space marines its only 22, and that's counting inquisition and assassins as a faction which they are a few models a peice. You better not be counting all the space marine supplements as separate factions. They are separate sub factions with the same main codex. And mantics is not a billion dollar company that does 100's of millions in sales...

 

The reveal streams have been crap for years. I just don't watch and just look at the articles after or go on here.

each marine faction is a separate faction that gets its own releases so counting them is 100% valid because a release for BA does not mean that DA don’t need a release.

Even removing assassins and inquisition from the count GW still has 30 factions, making that game still no where close.

No. They share a vast majority of the same releases. Short of characters/upgrade sprues and the few black templars units all the releases for years have been for all of them. And they share the same codex. Same faction, different subfactions. But this is getting all off topic.

yet GW considers them separate enough to list them separately.

They get special rules, and I’d bet serious money 10th sees unique individual kits for them, with BT being the forerunner of that.

That’s irrelevant any way because general kits with upgrade sprues are still a faction specific release.

 

You’re just trying to artificially limit things to make your own point.

Is that why right under the space marine tab the first one is just "space marine" and has the 94 purchaseable things shared between them? Which is about 50% more than any other faction? GW lists them separately because of the amount of players that play space marines. Ravenguard have 1 character, 1 supplement, 1 upgrade sprue, and dice/cards. Same with ironhands. That's it. Does not need its own tab. Not artificially limiting anything, just using the website layout that you brought up...

yes the lay out which lists those chapters as individual factions.

Even if we limit the space marines to chapters with multiple unique kits/units you’re still looking at significantly more factions than mantic’s games.

[Grand_Master_Alpharius]

Would have been nice to know when the CSM codex was going to be released, even if it was just having the month confirmed. But, other than that, I was pretty ok with it. Better scripting would be nice though, to be honest, really not keen on the banter from the presenters.

Edited May 6, 2022 by Grand_Master_Alpharius

[Captain Idaho]

im not the one complaining, and saying things could be done better.

 

Examples of someone doing it better is all I am asking for

I count 32 factions listed by GW on their website for 40k

And only 18 for mantic’s kings of war…that’s not even really close

 

Oh good, because I've given you examples of things GW could do differently.

 

But it seems you want only a business model that is like for like 100% the same as GW as a precedent, which isn't going to ever happen if you put the bar that high for any changes.

 

But not answering those crucial questions is the telling part of your reply ;)

 

*Super snip*

 

 

I'd say you can take other business models, adjust them and make them work for you. Or be innovative and make your own. X-wing isn't a perfect match, but then that doesn't mean what they do isn't relevant. And there are other companies, all of which operate in similar ways.

 

Ultimately I don't think GW are malicious, just a little hide bound and incompetent. The cynic in me would point out how GW business practices take advantage of "whales" as Discourse might put it, but that's going off topic.

 

GW have always done things this way and that's a tough thing to change in house. Large companies often get complacent and don't move with the times as shown by GW's removal of electronic Codex books, an example seen as anti-consumer and a step backwards.

 

They don't always get things right and if the community just accepts everything they do as good faith, things will never improve. It's the difference between being a savvy consumer and being a hostage.

 

But sales are down and stockprice is down, so maybe GW business experts will look at ways to get the consumer base all involved in things more often, get us all buying at once which is the logical best practice for them as well as us.

 

Just not our wallets.

Edited May 6, 2022 by Captain Idaho

[Magos Takatus]

 

I must admit the showing was quite underwhelming for me but I'm no much of a Chaos guy. There is so much in the way of Chaos releases for either AoS or 40k that it feels like we are permanently on the cusp of new Chaos releases arriving. That's not really fair since it's like being fed up of seeing too many Imperium releases or Xenos releases but for me the Chaos fatigue is real. I like the Chaos Knights but space marine and daemon releases really aren't for me. It will hopefully make someone else's day. 

 

I appreciate this post. I am not experiencing the Chaos fatigue, but I am glad that you appreciate that it will make someone's day as it certainly made mine. Hopefully they will be releasing something soon that makes yours. As long as it isn't more Space Marines. 

 

Oh, I am happy with recent releases. I am interested in Adeptus Mechanicus, Craftworld Eldar and Orks so I've already been rewarded for my patience. That's probably why I'm happy that there were people pleased to see the Chaos releases. Being a Craftworld Eldar fan I know what it feels like to have models that desperately need updates. 

[Bryan Blaire]

X-wing is definitely not a perfect match, since FFG was bought and the game was stripped away by their overlord corporation and given to a new company to helm, which has basically done nothing with it since they took over - I don’t think that’s what we want to see with 40K…  X-wing’s wave stuff left you knowing that a ship and upgrades you wanted was coming for six months from announcement, similar to how GW’s process works - it definitely wasn’t perfect either.

 

At the end of the day, I don’t carry a hate hard-on for GW’s release methods, even when factions I play don’t get anything for years - I’ve definitely already got enough overpriced army men in my backlog, and even when that is done, I can play games with everything I own instead of dwelling on what new overpriced plastic they might come out with for a faction that I play/want to play.  The act of purchasing new GW toys doesn’t give me enough joy for me to want to see it come out any faster to keep that chemical release stimulated in my head.

 

Sorry Idaho, I don’t think that your release wave concept would substantially change the somewhat disappointing nature of GW’s reveal streams (the topic of this thread).  Instead of “It’s only for these factions!?” and the like that we get now, we would instead get outcries that this three months/six months/month, people weren’t getting the HQ they wanted, or the squad type they wanted, or the Org slot that they needed filled (because a wave release could easily not include an alternate Troop kit for 6-9 months, leaving faction X stuck with just one selection to build armies with for half a year or more), etc.

[Captain Idaho]

Maybe people would still be disappointed, such is the nature of the beast. I mean, I was quite impressed with it but I guess folk might not be happy unless it's focused on their faction.

[WARMASTER_]

It's not the content that annoys me, it's the lack of it. For the dedicated 40k day for Warhammer Fest I expected, nay, demand to see more than we got. More of the Leagues, also seeing the upcoming Imperial Guard.

I’m sorry but this the MOST entitled opinion I’ve seen on this site

Edited May 6, 2022 by BladeOfVengeance

[Cleon]

I'd be upset if it was a ticketed 'in person' event and that was all we got, but as one of three build up streams to an event, where the event is for the bigger release at the end, then that was fine, if very Chaos focussed.

[jaxom]

I wonder if part of it is giving the skirmish games their own day. From a system perspective, it makes sense. If one only plays Kill-Team than new codex-only models are not interesting. Yet, if one is watching for faction-specific or genre-specific models then one may prefer 40k and Kill-Team releases be the same stream. Like a double cheeseburger, rather than two cheeseburgers, I suppose?

[ThePenitentOne]

I regret making this thread. I am sorry everyone.

 

Hey man, you gotta speak your truth. It's awesome that you care about your community enough to rethink what you've posted, but you don't owe us apologies.

 

And just some food for thought- anything revealed for KT is also a reveal for 40k. Any reveal for Necromunda is fodder for 40k conversion (at least) and hopefully for mainstream use too. I want a 40k datacard for the Cargo 8! Could you see one of those suckers chaosified and crawling with new cultists?

 

Personally, I'm hoping we get a look at the next KT vs. box. And I'm excited about the idea that we might see both new KT's, but also terrain for that- I'd really like to see new terrain in the box. Trying to manage expectations though- when they previewed the Nachmund KT box, they only showed one army.

 

Necromunda is the real wild card- there have been a great many Votann hints and references, and I still wouldn't be surprised to get a Squat Miner Ash Waste team. I'm convinced they're going to re-release the GSC Tectonic Frag drill as either Ash Wastes terrain or a Votann Datacard.

 

Finally, keep in mind that some HH reveals are ALSO 40k reveals- I think so far the Contemptor and the Spartan have official 40k rules? Not sure about the Kratos and Sicarian... FW, for the most part is totally alien to me.

Edited May 6, 2022 by ThePenitentOne

[Antarius]

I don’t really care for the streams, so I don’t watch them, preferring to read the WHC articles that sum them up. I do think they showed a lot of content though and I think expecting more is probably unrealistic (whether more would be good is probably quite subjective, I think I prefer not beijg shown everything that will be out this year but that’s just a personal thing). Demanding more honestly comes off as rather silly.

[Rik Lightstar]

Funnily enough I think we are actually on our way to having more "Wave Releases" that feature multiple Factions, but these have been happening through Kill Teams and they've said that's the concept they're going to carry on for that, plus the campaign releases already mentioned where it is often a Character model. So we'll have:

• Quarterly Kill Teams giving us at least 8 Units a year.
• Campaigns giving us new Characters  or Units that are featured in the campaign.
• Codex releases with a bunch of other stuff for that Faction.

Now we can ALL be happy, there are Splashes and Waves and we can all drown in unpainted models.

 

Rik

 

edit; AND I just realised we hear about our Splashes and Waves through Streams, it's all VERY aquatic

Edited May 6, 2022 by Rik Lightstar

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

 

im not the one complaining, and saying things could be done better.

 

Examples of someone doing it better is all I am asking for

I count 32 factions listed by GW on their website for 40k

And only 18 for mantic’s kings of war…that’s not even really close

 

Oh good, because I've given you examples of things GW could do differently.

 

But it seems you want only a business model that is like for like 100% the same as GW as a precedent, which isn't going to ever happen if you put the bar that high for any changes.

 

But not answering those crucial questions is the telling part of your reply ;)

 

*Super snip*

 

 

I'd say you can take other business models, adjust them and make them work for you. Or be innovative and make your own. X-wing isn't a perfect match, but then that doesn't mean what they do isn't relevant. And there are other companies, all of which operate in similar ways.

 

Ultimately I don't think GW are malicious, just a little hide bound and incompetent. The cynic in me would point out how GW business practices take advantage of "whales" as Discourse might put it, but that's going off topic.

 

GW have always done things this way and that's a tough thing to change in house. Large companies often get complacent and don't move with the times as shown by GW's removal of electronic Codex books, an example seen as anti-consumer and a step backwards.

 

They don't always get things right and if the community just accepts everything they do as good faith, things will never improve. It's the difference between being a savvy consumer and being a hostage.

 

But sales are down and stockprice is down, so maybe GW business experts will look at ways to get the consumer base all involved in things more often, get us all buying at once which is the logical best practice for them as well as us.

 

Just not our wallets.

size and scale of game effects the feasibility of how you do something.

The larger the game with the more factions the more factions the harder it is to release or reveal ‘something for everyone’