Dark Angels Successor questions

[Valkyrion]

I quite like the idea of doing a successor chapter that is just utterly meh about the fallen. 

Like these guys https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Prime_Absolvers but even less bothered. 

 

Rather than keep it a secret, they tell all of their recruits up front and have it out in the open in the entire chapter.

The whole identity of the DA is the fallen, so does having my guys spit on that idea become their identity, or does it just ruin the DA's whole appeal?

 

If I was going to go down the route of fallen ambivalence, would my chapter still need Interrogators and an Inner Circle? 

 

 

And finally, what's the justification for every DA successor getting Darkshrouds? I thought there was only 10.

[Jings]

they tell all of their recruits up front and have it out in the open in the entire chapter.

 

 

Yeah that wouldn't fly. That gets out and every Unforgiven chapter in the Segmentum is gonna be working to make them disappear. 

 

Ambivalence is the way to go. Could do the Angels of Absolution thing where they feel they've 'earned' forgiveness through some act. Everyone in the Chapter knowing? That's a bridge too far. 

[phandaal]

Your fluff can be whatever you want it to be. Azrael and the other Chapter Masters would probably not allow that Chapter to be a part of the Unforgiven.

 

Dark Angels without the identity of their hunt for the Fallen are Star Phantoms, basically.

 

There would be no need for Interrogator-Chaplains unless they interrogate someone besides the Fallen, but Dark Angels have always had Circles even before the Fallen.

 

As for Darkshrouds - real-world gameplay.

[Chaplain Lucifer]

If a DA chapter is Meh about the fallen, there's little reason for it to be a DA Sucessor IMHO.

[jbaeza94]

I thought the disciples of caliban where a purpose made fallen/cypher hunting chapter. I assume a greater number of marines know the truth in that chapter

[Gamiel]

I think they still would keep thing secret and have a kind of Freemason/secret society thing going one since the Unforgiven, no matter their attitude to their secrets, is that it's not something you are told about until you are ready. So battle-brothers would not find out about it untill they have been found out to be ready.

 

Their "meh about the fallen"-attitude is likely something that more affects their interaction with the other Unforgiven, with at likely many of the others thinking that the chapter have their priorities wrong, with some being socially hostile (at least) toward them. 

 

Since the Fallen are still traitors and heretics would they likely partake in the hunt and information gathering, but it would not be given the same priority as it does for other Unforgiven, meaning that they would not drop everything because things point toward there being a Fallen or something that could lead them to one at a known place.

 

I can see them not having any interrogator-chaplains and instead just hand over any Fallen they do have captured (likely few) to the DA for that.

 

Maybe a history of marines other Unforgiven Chapters, that are hot headed and/or see the hunt as a high duty, challenging the meh-chapter’s members for honour dules. There can also be times when other Unforgiven chapters have ignored calls for aid from the meh-chapter since they see it that the mehs don’t aid with the hunt so why should we come to their aid. 

 

If a DA chapter is Meh about the fallen, there's little reason for it to be a DA Sucessor IMHO.

The interaction with other Unforgiven and similar are reasons enough  I would say, and so is also that somebody wants to do it.

Edited May 12, 2022 by Gamiel

[Cactus]

Dark Angels without the identity of their hunt for the Fallen are Star Phantoms Astral Claws, basically.

I fixed this for you.  

[phandaal]

 

 

Dark Angels without the identity of their hunt for the Fallen are Star Phantoms Astral Claws, basically.

I fixed this for you.

Are the Astral Claws supposed to be a Dark Angels successor too?

[Cactus]

 

 

Dark Angels without the identity of their hunt for the Fallen are Star Phantoms Astral Claws, basically.

I fixed this for you.

Are the Astral Claws supposed to be a Dark Angels successor too?

 

It's one possible interpretation / wild speculation. The Astral Claws' 6th edition chapter rules were:

 

 

Reckless Courage: Any model with Chapter Tactics (Astral

Claws) has the Stubborn special rule and may never choose to

automatically fail a Morale check.

Rapid Attack and Encirclement: Models with this special rule

with the unit type Bike gain the Skilled Rider special rule.

Vehicles in the same detachment that are Fast Skimmers gain

the Scout special rule.

 

Stubborn and Skilled Rider. Does that sound like anyone we know?

[Brother Tyler]

I recall at least one DIY that explored the idea of an Unforgiven Successor Chapter falling out of step with the rest of the Unforgiven. I sat here for a while looking for it ... found it in one of the Brotherhood of the Angels challenges (which is why I remembered it - because I was working on my version of the Angels of Vigilance for that challenge and there was some banter going on) ... here.

 

I think that concept is interesting, but it definitely sets up strong potential for conflict. Much depends upon how it is executed, not to mention whether or not other Chapters know (and how much they know). If it comes across as, "We don't talk about Fight Club," a Chapter might get away with it. As the old saying goes, however, "loose lips sink ships" and one incautious revelation might invoke the wrath of the Unforgiven.

[Galron]

There are known successors(supposedly) who do not only hunt the Fallen, they arent interested in talking about it. Star Phantoms are a great example, they dont consider themselves Unforgiven. They took part in the Heresy for the loyalists, that half of their legion sided with the other team isnt their concern, they did the right thing so they have nothing to be forgiven for. Dark Angels will change the subject, try telling the Star Phantoms they are part of the Dark Angels and they will fight you. 

[Gamiel]

On 5/26/2022 at 3:30 PM, Galron said:

Star Phantoms are a great example, 

They are not. Since we don't actually know if they are DA successors or (in the case they are) that they know about the fallen. Yes, they have as their symbol one of the old DA Legion symbols, but by that logic so should Covenant of Fire be of Word Bearers stock, or Red Wolves and Shaow Wolves be of Space Wolves stock.

Edited September 18, 2023 by Gamiel

[Galron]

I think the fact that they will fight at the mere suggestion of DA ancestry and the Dark Angels will quickly change the subject says that there is in fact a connection. We know that some of the more modern chapters do have ancestry in traitor legions as well. True that its only hinted at, GW is likely to never flat out say "Minotaurs are Iron warrior and World Eater stock" or Carcharodons are Raven guard  and Night Lord gene scions but never the less, there is enough there to speculate and assume until they officially say they are or arent.

[BoldKill]

I have always toyed around with the idea of making a DIY unforgiven DA successor chapter that hunts for the fallen, but also wages a shadow war against The Inner Circle because they have been lead to believe that the Lion did in-fact turn traitor.  Not only would this Chapter seek to keep the secret of the 1st Legion in the dark, but they would also be in a race against other unforgiven Chapters in seeking out Fallen.  For me it is the ambiguity of 10,000 years of secrets being the appeal, and GW actually answering the question in HH novels or bringing back Primarchs kills the fun for for me.  I had the idea that this Chapter followed the same structure as a DA successor would, with most of the Chapter not knowing the secret.               

[Interrogator Stobz]

On 5/10/2022 at 12:13 AM, Valkyrion said:

I quite like the idea of doing a successor chapter that is just utterly meh about the fallen.

 

I doubt any Astates anywhere has a Meh bone in his body. Dark Angels are certainly not Meh, especially about Traitors of any kind.

+Please head directly to Cell 42 for a reconstructive mind probing session+

 

[LionLibrarian117]

The angels of absolution believe that the emperor has already forgiven them for the fallen but they still hunt them down. They still believe that the fallen should be punished. I reckon that's probs the closest to meh you're going to get regarding dark Angels attitudes toward the fallen. 

[Harleqvin]

Isn’t there that one new Primaris Successor that is like “screw the fallen crap”?

I need to look at the supplement. I think it was in there.

 

Edit - Prime Absolvers

Edited March 8, 2023 by Harleqvin
Found the chapter and added info.

[Gamiel]

5 minutes ago, Harleqvin said:

Isn’t there that one new Primaris Successor that is like “screw the fallen crap”?

I need to look at the supplement. I think it was in there.

Yes. In a way. The Prime Absolvers don't see the Fallen as no different to other traitors and don't priritise them but they have established an Inner Circle and specialized companies, so they are still keeping the secret and I guess handing over Fallen to the Rock when they capture them.

[Harleqvin]

Hadn’t refreshed and didn’t see your post before editing mine with the info