HH 2.0 The Tetrarchs of Ultramar: XIIIth Legion Tactica

[Cruor Vault]

A big blob of Nemesis Destroyers is an awesome addition to any UM army, especially if you're running the Logos.

A unit or two of Veterans would be a good idea for running PotL.  Personally I think the Tartaros pattern terminators make a slightly better command Squad than the Cataphractii do because they can sweeping advance.

Suzerain are expensive but are arguably the most powerful power armor unit in the game right now.  In the interim you can build up some of the legacy units from the expanded PDF.  Locutarus Storm squads are amazingly good, and 5 Fulmentarus Terminators are hard to beat for most valuable unit in an UM list.

[WolfLogic]

Couple of questions that will help me decide how I want to expand my army. 

When is it a good idea to bring a command squad? I'm fairly new to actually playing the tabletop as I only started with 2.0 but I watched a fair amount of 1.0 battle reports on youtube. I was thinking about having a praetor on jetbike and taking a command squad with him for a cavalry themed list (no RoW), is that a good idea? 

I mainly have generic units and am thinking about getting some Invictarus Suzerains, if I were to run a 10 man squad what ratio of TH to Legatine Axe should I run, I'm thinking 4 TH 6 LA? 

On that same note, I like the idea of Nemesis Destroyers since they're pretty BA, not sure what loadout they should be given or how to play them though, any advice?

[Cruor Vault]

In a 10-man squad of Suzerains, you should have at least 2 hammers, maybe as many as 4 if you think they're going up against lots of tanks or Dreads.

 

A Jetbike command squad is a VERY pricy option, so only go with it if you're sure that you want to have it for thematic purposes.  Otherwise any other unit would be a better points investiture.  Suzerains are a fantastic unit to take as a retinue.

[Orange Knight]

I am eagerly anticipating a future plastic jump pack unit, or an upgrade sprue with jump packs.

I want to put together a unit of Locutarus, and I don't want to use the MkVII jump packs to keep the army thematic. I think the Locutarus are the unit we should be pursuing for the role of fast moving infantry.

 

In a recent game I ran a squad of Fulmentarus, with Guilliman in the unit in a Logus Lectora army. I used the Logos to grant them WS5 during a key turn, and Guilliman's Cognis Signum to keep the BS at 5. The unit did significant damage in Overwatch, and then won the combat that followed.

Edited September 15, 2022 by Orange Knight

[Captain Idaho]

Hey gang. Just a little question regarding weapon builds for those experienced with HH games... A Praetor representing Captain Orfeo should ideally have a pair of blades, which isn't ideal in the rules for HH, so without making one of the pair of them redundant I was thinking of giving him a Charnabal Sabre (his combat blade) and a power sword.

So the power sword cuts through most things and if up against 2+ saves the Charnabal Sabre becomes superior. 

But... does he really cut it in melee? (Pun intended)

He can carve through infantry handily enough but will struggle against 2+ saves unless in duels against models with lower amounts of wounds.

I'm not feeling like such an expensive model should be so vulnerable to a 2+ save though. How does anyone else feel on that? Have they found having a powerful bodyguard of AP2 compensates this in melee for us, particularly the Invictarus Suzerain?

Or should I just bite the bullet and buy him a Paragon blade and give him a pointless second weapon just for WYSIWYG?

I suppose I could "count as" the shorter blade as a Lightning Claw for optimal build since will give a +1 attack as a specialist weapon, but that does feel a little dirty as it isn't a lightning claw and there ARE weapons a smaller combat blade can match.

Edited September 28, 2022 by Captain Idaho

[WrathOfTheLion]

Could you just make the second blade a chainsword/ccw? Keep default loadout, exchange bolt pistol for paragon blade?

Last edition there wasn't really a difference between a chainsword/dedicated ccw, hence the blade in the MK IV kit, so shouldn't too much matter.

[Captain Idaho]

I could do that. Wouldn't be a too egregious faux pas for WYSIWYG after all.

Does seem like a waste eh. Like, at least the power sword and Charnabal Sabre have uses; they give +1 attack, power swords against 3+ save, sabre rending 5+ against better...

In casual games I might try both methods and see. After all, it's just fun. Sometimes the fun of a massively underpowered weapon or model is a little missing though.

Edited September 29, 2022 by Captain Idaho

[dickyelsdon]

Hello brothers in arms, how is the XIIIth fairing for you?

 

Struggling to make best use of the Logos personally, mainly through lack of punchy units (yet to buy Suzerain). Ive done well out of using +1WS when my Cataphractii or Command Retinue are in combat, and re-roll 1's shooting is always good when the situation allows for it. Usually play 2500pts and cutting back on vehicles to make sure ive got infantry to use the Logos, but still seems like I dont get a lot from it.

 

Keen to hear people experiences as I like the tactical nature of it, just never seem to have the units to take advantage of situations.

[dickyelsdon]

Had a 3K game last night against Night Lords. My naivety and night fighting meant i was out of position to make use of the Logos for shooting, but was able to drop Retribution for +1WS  at key times.  I really like using it with Terminators as its makes them increasingly more tough to kill in combat, its especially good with a retinue of Cataphractii.

 

Key take-aways:

1. I want/need a chaplain if running a big blob of tacticals

2. I dislike Legatine axes, only wounding on a 4+ just sucks. Maybe im targeting the wrong thing but it seemed if i manged to hit and actually wound the victim had an invun and passed its save. Maybe they need to just be used to blend opposing tacticals (FYI i only have these on Praetor, Centurion and Praetorian-breacher, dont have any Suzerain yet)

3. Praetorian Breachers really are garbage , ill persevere but not sure how to use them best.

4. My army needs to be more unified, one flank was in combat and the other fighting at range, this meant i stuggled to get max benefit from the Logos. I need to retreat if the opponent pushes one flank until its time to counterstrike as a whole force.

[BrotherAtrox]

I think Logos, while not an I WIN button - has potential to pop off really big when used properly and is definitely one of the more "fluff-friendly" representations of a Legion on the tabletop. It's a way to give yourself interesting tactical decisions to make every turn.

[Sparika]

Hi fellow members of Imperium Secundus.

 

I am building a Ultramarines force for which the main driving force is reading The Mark of Calth. So I have Remus Ventanus, a master of signal, 2x15 tactical marines, 1x10 praetorians breachers and a Kratos. I would like to build the force around the Logos Lectora RoW and I am missing one compulsory troop.

 

What would you select for the third compulsory troop? Another tactical blob? An assault squad? A breacher squad? A tactical unit could be versatile and fit with the rigid lectora (orders apply to everyone). A breacher squad could complement the praetorians (but FW does not sell the rectangular shields anymore ...). And an assault squad could bring mobility and versatility (but would need a plastic release ...).

For 2000pts would you bring a fourth mandatory troop choice or then shop into other slots? I am considering a rhino with a destroyer nemesis squad, tactical support, and a contemptor.

[dickyelsdon]

21 hours ago, Sparika said:

Hi fellow members of Imperium Secundus.

 

I am building a Ultramarines force for which the main driving force is reading The Mark of Calth. So I have Remus Ventanus, a master of signal, 2x15 tactical marines, 1x10 praetorians breachers and a Kratos. I would like to build the force around the Logos Lectora RoW and I am missing one compulsory troop.

 

What would you select for the third compulsory troop? Another tactical blob? An assault squad? A breacher squad? A tactical unit could be versatile and fit with the rigid lectora (orders apply to everyone). A breacher squad could complement the praetorians (but FW does not sell the rectangular shields anymore ...). And an assault squad could bring mobility and versatility (but would need a plastic release ...).

For 2000pts would you bring a fourth mandatory troop choice or then shop into other slots? I am considering a rhino with a destroyer nemesis squad, tactical support, and a contemptor.

 

Excellent theme!  2x15 is already a lot of tacticals, so id maybe add an assualt squad utilise Retribution strike. Praetorians already have Line so not sure you need even more line units. Not a lot of punch in the list so far tho, some melta or anti-tank heavy can be good with the Master of Signals. 

Edited April 12, 2023 by dickyelsdon

[Cruor Vault]

On 4/11/2023 at 8:36 AM, Sparika said:

Hi fellow members of Imperium Secundus.

 

I am building a Ultramarines force for which the main driving force is reading The Mark of Calth. So I have Remus Ventanus, a master of signal, 2x15 tactical marines, 1x10 praetorians breachers and a Kratos. I would like to build the force around the Logos Lectora RoW and I am missing one compulsory troop.

 

What would you select for the third compulsory troop? Another tactical blob? An assault squad? A breacher squad? A tactical unit could be versatile and fit with the rigid lectora (orders apply to everyone). A breacher squad could complement the praetorians (but FW does not sell the rectangular shields anymore ...). And an assault squad could bring mobility and versatility (but would need a plastic release ...).

For 2000pts would you bring a fourth mandatory troop choice or then shop into other slots? I am considering a rhino with a destroyer nemesis squad, tactical support, and a contemptor.

 

At 2K a 4th troops unit would hurt your list IMO, too many points spent there.  Especially since Praetorians are also line.   With the Logos requiring a MoS a Heavy Weapons Squad seems a perfect accompaniment.  Doubly so with the UM advanced reaction allowing them to menace anything they can see.

 

Remus has a legion standard, so he will grant line to any unit he joins, so attaching him to a veteran or terminator squad wouldn't be a bad idea.  If terminators I would suggest Tartaros as there is less overlapping of incompatible rules.

 

2 hours ago, dickyelsdon said:

 

Excellent theme!  2x15 is already a lot of tacticals, so id maybe add an assualt squad utilise Retribution strike. Praetorians already have Line so not sure you need even more line units. Not a lot of punch in the list so far tho, some melta or anti-tank heavy can be good with the Master of Signals. 

Despoilers are an excellent troop choice, especially with the Logos.  Retribution Strike bringing them to WS5 is a huge jump in their combat ability.  Tossing them in a Raider makes for a really great unit to bully opponent's line units off objectives without committing too many points.  I'm running a unit of 10 with a Fist Sergeant and two mauls in a Raider.

Edited April 12, 2023 by Cruor Vault

[Sparika]

Thank you both for the useful remarks. I overlooked the line keywords on Praetorians and the banner.

[Sparika]

Any comment on inductii ? 

 

I don’t have the book but I have read they can take two special weapons in a 10 man squad. So I was thinking nice ! 
 

But then so does a veteran squad, probably more expensive, but also probably with better rules. 

[Runefyre]

I really like the Ultramarine inductii, they trade Fury of the Legion for Inexorable, which is a good trade I think. They're basically always covered from morale (other than fear), and the added punch of a couple melta guns gives them great utility. I don't think plasma or flamers are particularly worth it, I only like plasma guns when you get volume of fire (support squads), and flamers are just not great (unless you play against militia). 

[Cruor Vault]

2 hours ago, Runefyre said:

I really like the Ultramarine inductii, they trade Fury of the Legion for Inexorable, which is a good trade I think. They're basically always covered from morale (other than fear), and the added punch of a couple melta guns gives them great utility. I don't think plasma or flamers are particularly worth it, I only like plasma guns when you get volume of fire (support squads), and flamers are just not great (unless you play against militia). 

 

Yeah, theyre great!.  The only downside to them is being support squads, which means you're running at least 4 troops choices when using the Logos.  That feels a tad punishing to me.

[dickyelsdon]

On 6/4/2023 at 12:45 AM, Cruor Vault said:

 

Yeah, theyre great!.  The only downside to them is being support squads, which means you're running at least 4 troops choices when using the Logos.  That feels a tad punishing to me.

 

Im toying with the idea of 2 assault units, unit of breachers with 2 melta guns, and 2 Inductii units with 2 melta guns. I was running a melta support unit anyway, so this spreads the threat out a bit for more survivability/flexibility and give me some space for assault units to benefit from the Logos.

[Cruor Vault]

I finally broke down and tried out Remus for the first time this week.  I've become quite impressed by him over the last 3 games I've played.  Even though he is very expensive for a single character, his combination of Master of the Legion and a Legion Standard is cheaper than a Delegatus + Herald.

 

My group pretty much only plays the goonhammer missions and having objectives in every game means his warlord trait is extremely useful.  I am also starting to think that a second movement phase reaction is more potent than a second shooting phase reaction (though with a much higher skill requirement). 

 

My current list is a Terminator Heavy Pride of the Legion which brings 6 scoring units (2x 5-man Indomitus, 2x 5-man Cataphractii in Raiders, 10-man Praetorian Breachers in a Raider, and 5-man Fulmentarius w/Remus).  Multiple games I have been able to use the Indomitus and Cataphractii units to tie up the enemy by sticking on the objectives and forcing my opponent to chew through all the terminator wounds because they can't fail leadership checks when on an objective.

 

Even the Breachers aren't awful when a Biomancy Librarian is added to them to prevent being doubled out by fists/hammers.

[El Ravager]

I like to stick Remus with a blob of 10 Cataphractii terminators with powerfists and clog up the middle.  If you aren't already scoring from Pride of the Legion, it's pretty nice to give them line. 

 

I haven't tried him with Fulmentarus yet, I'll have to try that. 

Edited September 11, 2023 by El Ravager

[Cruor Vault]

Brothers!  I think the Optae is an excellent HQ for us.

 

Because we can take an Argyrum Boarding shield on any ICs, we can turn an Optae into an 'almost' Centurion for only 5pts over the normal Centurion cost.  With the Optae's rallying ability it could be a quite good alternative HQ!

 

Optae 40pts + Artificer Armor 10pts + Argyrum Boarding Shield 15pts =65pts VS Centurion 60pts.  You're losing out on 1LD (I think) and are only I4, but if he's running an unwieldy weapon it doesn't really matter.

 

[Gorgoff]

10 hours ago, Cruor Vault said:

Brothers!  I think the Optae is an excellent HQ for us.

 

Because we can take an Argyrum Boarding shield on any ICs, we can turn an Optae into an 'almost' Centurion for only 5pts over the normal Centurion cost.  With the Optae's rallying ability it could be a quite good alternative HQ!

 

Optae 40pts + Artificer Armor 10pts + Argyrum Boarding Shield 15pts =65pts VS Centurion 60pts.  You're losing out on 1LD (I think) and are only I4, but if he's running an unwieldy weapon it doesn't really matter.

 

A, ld, I if he has a vet statline.

I wait for my copy before I make plans. 

[Cruor Vault]

1 hour ago, Gorgoff said:

A, ld, I if he has a vet statline.

I wait for my copy before I make plans. 

Yeah, I've seen his profile since I posted... 

 

Not quite as good as hoped.  He is Ld9, but strangely only A2 which is quite odd considering he's basically a Veteran Sergeant in all other respects.  He's still quite useful, but not the Centurion side-grade I was thinking.

 

Personally I was planning on running some Nemesis/Chainsword Veterans with my MoS in the Logos.  The Optae+Command Squad is only about 20pts more expensive than they were going to be, and can do exactly the same job but gain line and the Ld aura from the banner.