Sanguinius the Great Angel

[nagashnee]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/05/25/the-next-novel-in-the-primarchs-series-descends-on-angels-wings/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=black-library&utm_content=sanguiniusthegreatangel&fbclid=IwAR1WDO7ijEv1atyndFHe_hHJBJxwO6MfcwMi8OY-zqHZBXRW-oan_7W6f6c

 

Its Here and its not James Swallow people! Its Chris Wraith and i cant wipe the smile off my face give me it GW give it to me right now! 

 

 

Plot sounds fantastic too which is a plus, but Wraith my man, my dude, my boi you did it you utter mad lad you saved it. 

 

Even the cover is better then i expected just inject the words into my eyes. 

Edited May 25, 2022 by nagashnee

[Roomsky]

I don't know what gods to thank for Wraight getting this book, but they're getting whatever burnt offerings they want. This is honestly such a relief, and between this and Echoes of Eternity it looks like wingboy is finally going to get decent coverage.

[nagashnee]

I don't know what gods to thank for Wraight getting this book, but they're getting whatever burnt offerings they want. This is honestly such a relief, and between this and Echoes of Eternity it looks like wingboy is finally going to get decent coverage.

 

Is it sanguinalia cause it bloody well feels like it is. 

[Indefragable]

Wow. My Intel was wrong. I was sure James Swallow was handling the Sanguinius novel. I spoke with Jim in person about it at an event and got the distinct impression he was doing it. Maybe he was just talking about his pitch for the book?

 

Regardless I am pumped for Chris Wraight’s take on them. What little we saw of Sangy and Co in the Khan novel was some of the best stuff yet on him (kind of like how the Lion’s showing in the Russ novel was one of his best showings as well…must be a Wraight thing)

Edited May 25, 2022 by Indefragable

[cheywood]

This is fantastic news! Given Swallow’s relative absence from BL and Wraight having a BA profile picture on Twitter I’m not entirely surprised.

[lansalt]

Call me a contrarian, but I think Sanguinius has been already well depicted in the stories. The primarch who really needs Chris Wraight’s care for world building is the much underdeveloped Horus.

[Scribe]

Have I sung Wraights praises enough?

 

No, I do not believe that I have. As one of the holy trinity of BL authors, this makes for a welcome surprise.

 

Been a fan for a LONG time, very happy to see what he does with this.

[DarkChaplain]

I'm flabberghasted that they ditched Swallow - and it's a wonderful feeling!

 

As for Sanguinius being well-depicted... I'm torn. Some of it was strong, but overall, Sanguinius suffered from Fear to Tread being tosh, then being on the cover for Unremembered Empire while not really being in it, and then sitting around or taking the occasional flight on Macragge, while Guilliman and the Lion did the heavy lifting in the arc. What few showings he received there were for the most part focused on his visions of death - and that's been his primary theme ever since, for better or worse. He's learned to cope with it, or to use it as a weapon, but thematically, I'm seriously over it already.

 

On the flipside, there has been very little coverage of Sanguinius pre-Heresy, outside of some bits in Fear to Tread (the prologue with Horus) or short sections in Horus Rising, for example, and the occasional short story (though the bulk of those is also about Azkaellon, Amit and the Sanguinor).

 

So a Great Crusade novel about what they were like before Khorne breaks their back? Yes, please. Even though the cover is pretty meh.

[Sothalor]

*Cue Handel's Messiah chorus*

 

Chris Wraight is one of the best arrows in BL's quiver when it comes to fleshing out Imperial cultures, institutions, and worldviews.

 

He's also one of the best at writing Primarchs simultaneously as mythic transhuman demigods and as people, with all the uncertainty, insecurity, and heartbreak that entails.

 

Eagerly looking forward to what he does here.

[nagashnee]

Call me a contrarian, but I think Sanguinius has been already well depicted in the stories. The primarch who really needs Chris Wraight’s care for world building is the much underdeveloped Horus.

Out of curiosity which book would you say achieved this? 

 

So far all they have done i feel is tie him to the red thirst and his death. But i want Sanguinius as a father, who came to a legion of cannibal ghoul men and taught them art, nobility, sacrifice. Who cared for them and argued for them and fought for them. The man who turned the monsters INTO the angels and did so by leading by example and humility. Whose actions caused the Imperium to love him and the army to cheer loudest for him on the day of days that was ullanor. 

 

I want the Sanguinius whose death still plagues Roboute 10k years latter and who drove the church of utter fanatics to find a way to dial it up too 11 during space jesus christmass and causes even the administratum to get the day off. 

 

And by heck this is the first real chance we have of getting him. 

Edited May 25, 2022 by nagashnee

[DukeLeto69]

Have I sung Wraights praises enough?

 

No, I do not believe that I have. As one of the holy trinity of BL authors, this makes for a welcome surprise.

 

Been a fan for a LONG time, very happy to see what he does with this.

I can guess two:

 

Wraight

ADB

 

Who is YOUR third?

[Fire Golem]

Great news.

[DukeLeto69]

I'm flabberghasted that they ditched Swallow - and it's a wonderful feeling!.

I doubt very much BL ditched Swallow. More likely Swallow didn’t have space (or inclination) in his schedule to take this on. His original fiction Marc Dane novels have really taken off and are not only doing great sales numbers but I believe someone has optioned them for a potential movie/TV series. I’d say that all pays better than BL.

 

Saying all that, Wraight is one of the best BL authors so this could end up being the first Primarch novel I actually buy.

 

Although sadly that probably explains the lack of WH Crime Bloodlines 2 and WotT3. Wraight has at least confirmed VoT3 is written.

Edited May 25, 2022 by DukeLeto69

[Scribe]

 

Have I sung Wraights praises enough?

 

No, I do not believe that I have. As one of the holy trinity of BL authors, this makes for a welcome surprise.

 

Been a fan for a LONG time, very happy to see what he does with this.

I can guess two:

 

Wraight

ADB

 

Who is YOUR third?

THE third is French. ;)

[DukeLeto69]

 

 

Have I sung Wraights praises enough?

 

No, I do not believe that I have. As one of the holy trinity of BL authors, this makes for a welcome surprise.

 

Been a fan for a LONG time, very happy to see what he does with this.

I can guess two:

 

Wraight

ADB

 

Who is YOUR third?

THE third is French. ;)

Hmmm interesting. I have a love/hate relationship with his books. Some are amongst my favs but others feel almost impenetrable and overly dense.

[Indefragable]

I'm flabberghasted that they ditched Swallow - and it's a wonderful feeling!

 

As for Sanguinius being well-depicted... I'm torn. Some of it was strong, but overall, Sanguinius suffered from Fear to Tread being tosh, then being on the cover for Unremembered Empire while not really being in it, and then sitting around or taking the occasional flight on Macragge, while Guilliman and the Lion did the heavy lifting in the arc. What few showings he received there were for the most part focused on his visions of death - and that's been his primary theme ever since, for better or worse. He's learned to cope with it, or to use it as a weapon, but thematically, I'm seriously over it already.

 

On the flipside, there has been very little coverage of Sanguinius pre-Heresy, outside of some bits in Fear to Tread (the prologue with Horus) or short sections in Horus Rising, for example, and the occasional short story (though the bulk of those is also about Azkaellon, Amit and the Sanguinor).

 

So a Great Crusade novel about what they were like before Khorne breaks their back? Yes, please. Even though the cover is pretty meh.

Quite fair. Sanguinius gets a number of scenes in the HH novel series, but they are hard to remember for the most part because as you say…..he’s literally on screen and that’s about it.

 

I get the feeling that many authors wanted to write about him (a Dan Abnett interview from like 2010 has him saying that as an author, the one character he is most excited to write about in any way is Sanguinius…explains the cameo in Unremembered Empire?) and just wanted to get a scene with him in, but weren’t sure what to do beyond that and/or we’re worried about stealing thunder from later episodes. Guy Haley having him do a whole lot of nothing in imperium Secundus stuff and then go to doing EVERYTHING in Titandeath and such. It’s a bit :cusszo and symbolic of his depiction overall throughout the series.

 

To wit, all the depictions of him in the series to the best of my memory:

-very interesting brotherly conversation with Horus in *Horus Rising*.

-*Fear to Tread*

-shows up in literally the last few pages of *The Unremembered Empire* despite being on the cover. Legendary in not a good way.

-a few scenes of doing not much of anything in *Pharos*

-a few scenes here and there in *Angels of Caliban*, features heavily in the plot but doesn’t get a whole lot of (quality?) screentime

NOTE: there is a scene in either Pharos or AoC where Sanguinius is ambushed by Kurze

-*Ruinstorm* has him as one of the three protagonists, 2nd most screentime outside of *Fear to Tread*

-brief cameo in *Wolfsbane*

-shows up for a couple scenes in *Titandeath*

-a few short scenes in *Solar War*

-shows up quite a bit in *The Lost and Damned*

-a few scenes/mentions in *The First Wall*

-features a good amount in *Saturnine*

-I haven’t finished *Mortis* or *Warhawk* yet so unknown there

 

TL;DR: I think opinions on his depictions directly correlate to opinions on the books he appears in, for better and worse (duh?). In contrast, I think he has a good showing in *Titandeath* despite having mixed feelings on that book overall.

Edited May 25, 2022 by Indefragable

[Indefragable]

 

 

Call me a contrarian, but I think Sanguinius has been already well depicted in the stories. The primarch who really needs Chris Wraight’s care for world building is the much underdeveloped Horus.

Out of curiosity which book would you say achieved this?

 

So far all they have done i feel is tie him to the red thirst and his death. But i want Sanguinius as a father, who came to a legion of cannibal ghoul men and taught them art, nobility, sacrifice. Who cared for them and argued for them and fought for them. The man who turned the monsters INTO the angels and did so by leading by example and humility. Whose actions caused the Imperium to love him and the army to cheer loudest for him on the day of days that was ullanor.

 

I want the Sanguinius whose death still plagues Roboute 10k years latter and who drove the church of utter fanatics to find a way to dial it up too 11 during space jesus christmass and causes even the administratum to get the day off.

 

And by heck this is the first real chance we have of getting him.

Very well said.

 

IMHO, Sanguinius’ best depictions are:

-*Horus Rising*: despite Abnett saying he has black hair (lol) it really sets the tone as Sangy as the most trusted advisor Horus has. The brother Horus looks up to.

 

-*Khan* Primarchs novel: we see the charm that Sangy is supposed to be renowned for. Really fun interactions between Sangy and Khan as well as an interesting dynamic between Sangy, Khan, and Magnus.

 

-*Saturnine* despite pulling off the anti-Titan trick yet again, Sanguinius’ presence on the battlefield is depicted so well here. The way the Traitor Warhound Titans hesitate when they first see him is just such a well done scene and there’s this dynamic of everyone looking to him as an inspiring general and overall badass, yet he literally almost passes out when his foresight randomly afflicts him. It creates a character that is even more inspiring because of how he wrestles his own internal daemons while getting his body and the troops around him to literally wrestle daemons on the battlefield.

 

 

Call me a contrarian, but I think Sanguinius has been already well depicted in the stories. The primarch who really needs Chris Wraight’s care for world building is the much underdeveloped Horus.

Out of curiosity which book would you say achieved this?

 

So far all they have done i feel is tie him to the red thirst and his death. But i want Sanguinius as a father, who came to a legion of cannibal ghoul men and taught them art, nobility, sacrifice. Who cared for them and argued for them and fought for them. The man who turned the monsters INTO the angels and did so by leading by example and humility. Whose actions caused the Imperium to love him and the army to cheer loudest for him on the day of days that was ullanor.

 

I want the Sanguinius whose death still plagues Roboute 10k years latter and who drove the church of utter fanatics to find a way to dial it up too 11 during space jesus christmass and causes even the administratum to get the day off.

 

And by heck this is the first real chance we have of getting him.

Very well said.

 

IMHO, Sanguinius’ best depictions are:

-*Horus Rising*: despite Abnett saying he has black hair (lol) it really sets the tone as Sangy as the most trusted advisor Horus has. The brother Horus looks up to.

 

-*Khan* Primarchs novel: we see the charm that Sangy is supposed to be renowned for. Really fun interactions between Sangy and Khan as well as an interesting dynamic between Sangy, Khan, and Magnus.

 

-*Saturnine* despite pulling off the anti-Titan trick yet again, Sanguinius’ presence on the battlefield is depicted so well here. The way the Traitor Warhound Titans hesitate when they first see him is just such a well done scene and there’s this dynamic of everyone looking to him as an inspiring general and overall badass, yet he literally almost passes out when his foresight randomly afflicts him. It creates a character that is even more inspiring because of how he wrestles his own internal daemons while getting his body and the troops around him to literally wrestle daemons on the battlefield.

[lansalt]

 

Call me a contrarian, but I think Sanguinius has been already well depicted in the stories. The primarch who really needs Chris Wraight’s care for world building is the much underdeveloped Horus.

Out of curiosity which book would you say achieved this? 

I wasn't thinking about any single book and I don't dislike Fear To Tread like many other people, It seems decent to me. I just think that between all the stories where Sanguinius is featured, including the Black Books or even BA's visions in 40k, we have a pretty good idea about his character, legion and what happened to him. We have also yet to see the events at the end of the siege and the Vengeful Spirit, that leave plenty of room to explore him further.

 

I'm sure this will be a great book, as Chris Wraight is also my favourite BL author, but I'm a bit worried about the titular bad guy of the series being a side character for most of it. Horus and the SoH really need more love.

[Indefragable]

I'm sure this will be a great book, as Chris Wraight is also my favourite BL author, but I'm a bit worried about the titular bad guy of the series being a side character for most of it. Horus and the SoH really need more love.

Quite true.

 

But they don’t have to be mutually exclusive. Just because I want more and better Sanguinius depictions doesn’t mean I don’t always want (way) more Horus as well. I think he’s criminally underrepresented and unexplored.

 

I want all the Primarchs to have depth and exploration and their moment in the limelight, something I think they have not done as good of a job as they should have <cough> Ferrus Manus <cough>

[Sothalor]

 

I wasn't thinking about any single book and I don't dislike Fear To Tread like many other people, It seems decent to me. I just think that between all the stories where Sanguinius is featured, including the Black Books or even BA's visions in 40k, we have a pretty good idea about his character, legion and what happened to him. We have also yet to see the events at the end of the siege and the Vengeful Spirit, that leave plenty of room to explore him further.

 

I'm sure this will be a great book, as Chris Wraight is also my favourite BL author, but I'm a bit worried about the titular bad guy of the series being a side character for most of it. Horus and the SoH really need more love.

 

 

I don't really get this perspective; each Primarch has or will have a titular character novel entry. It's not like the existence of the Sanguinius Primarch novel means there won't be a Horus Primarch novel.

 

It was pretty much guaranteed that at some point BL would commission a Sanguinius novel, as well as a Horus novel. People in this thread are reacting positively to the announced author of the Sanguinius novel. This has nothing to do with the Horus novel.

[lansalt]

I don't really get this perspective; each Primarch has or will have a titular character novel entry. It's not like the existence of the Sanguinius Primarch novel means there won't be a Horus Primarch novel.

 

It was pretty much guaranteed that at some point BL would commission a Sanguinius novel, as well as a Horus novel. People in this thread are reacting positively to the announced author of the Sanguinius novel. This has nothing to do with the Horus novel.

My point is that Wraight doing Sanguinius' novel makes sure he won't do the one about Horus, and I would prefer him rather than another author.

 

That said, I'm looking forward to read this book.

[Ubiquitous1984]

Any speculation on the themes or plots that the book might tackle?

 

I know it’s incredibly unlikely, but the famous interaction between Sangunius and the Necrons would be great to see.  

Edited May 25, 2022 by Ubiquitous1984

[Scribe]

Any speculation on the themes or plots that the book might tackle?

 

I know it’s incredibly unlikely, but the famous interaction between Sangunius and the Necrons would be great to see.  

 

Please no. Please.

 

Its one of the pieces I'd rather ignore in the setting.

[aa.logan]

His Twitter avatar which has been a pretty reliable indicator of what he’s been working on changed from White Scars to Blood Angels ages ago, so it’s not a massive surprise- but it is currently the Blanche BFG art which could lead all kinds of places…

[cheywood]

His Twitter avatar which has been a pretty reliable indicator of what he’s been working on changed from White Scars to Blood Angels ages ago, so it’s not a massive surprise- but it is currently the Blanche BFG art which could lead all kinds of places…

I’ve been wondering that too. A Rogue Trader or Imperial Navy novel would be wonderful, but I think DOF 5 is the likeliest candidate.