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Scouts and their role in primaris chapters


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Traditionally scouts have been a chapter’s light infantry and recon arm.

Primaris already have lighter infantry and recon units that are full blown battle brothers, so what is the role of the brothers who aren’t yet fully through their transformation?

 

I think they could almost fill the role of the tactical squad in primaris chapters.

 

A single unit that can take standard small arms, and a heavy weapon and a special weapon, or even take a more melee based loadout.

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Posted (edited)

Same as before, it’s the marines who don’t have black carapace yet but are advanced enough to be useful battlefield assets.

 

Mechanically if they were 2 wounds 4+ and cheaper than an infiltrator/incursor and had options for bolt sniper rifles, shotguns or combat knives and heavy bolt pistols they’d probably see use.

Edited by Blindhamster
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I don’t really see them having much of any role other than snipers.

primaris already have full battle brothers for snipers
Three shots max whoopy doo .
it becomes more pointless redundancy.

Hopefully GW has taken our complaints about bloat and redundant units to heart and won’t do that.

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I'm not sure we'll see Scouts added to Marine squads like Black Templars. In fact, I'd be confident to bet against it if Paddy Power were taking odds.

 

A new and relevant Scouts squad? I imagine GW are kinda stuck really. They've wrote themselves into a corner with Phobos armour basically fulfilling the role of Scouts as Troops choices. When Scouts were Troops, they were prioritised over other choices due to being cheaper.

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Honestly I never saw the point/logic in having your youngins', i.e. the future of your chapter in the recon role, where they would be expected to operate far from support. To me that's just begging to lose them.

 

I think it would be better to have them in a more auxiliary role. They would be the ones to secure objectives after the rest of the marines have moved on, or supporting the rest of them from slightly behind the front lines.  This way they get experience and training, but are also in a somewhat safer position. Leave the recon for the veterans

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I'm not sure we'll see Scouts added to Marine squads like Black Templars. In fact, I'd be confident to bet against it if Paddy Power were taking odds.

I don't think anyone was suggesting they'd be added to squads like BT neophytes.

 

What we're saying we want them to scale with said BT neophytes. That means as tall as them, having the same armor details etc as them. Just presumably missing the tabard

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Oh any new models GW produces are going to be bigger. That's a given but the topic was about their implementation so I was looking at it from that context of course. I totally agree with you on that in that case.
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As far as the fluff goes, there is no difference in how Primaris-only and Firstborn Chapters utilize their neophyte/initiate Space Marines- they are still used as Scouts, not having the black carapace and using carapace armor rather than full-fledged power armor. The Vanguard Primaris (the Phobos armored marines) are an addition to the 10th Company, they are not a replacement for the trainee Scouts. Gulliman specifically allotted that there would be 10 additional squads in the 10th Company to fulfil specialist reconnaissance and shadow warfare that Phobos-armored marines can accomplish. Vanguard marines aren't trainees or initiates or "Scouts" in the traditional manner; they are fully trained and inducted marines that specialize in sneaky stuff- more akin to Space Wolves Scouts than anything else. 

 

New Scout models would be nice though- I can't imagine running my Primaris Chapter with the current Scouts, they are too out of proportion and old. 

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Will be interesting to see if they make new scouts because if they do, they’ll either be the first legit mainline firstborn 40K kit in a long time, or they’ll be primaris. Personally I’d love a primaris scout squad like the BT primaris neophytes, but I’m really not sure what their purpose would be.

 

Honestly I’d like to see:

- primaris scouts as troops, 4+ save and 2 wounds with shotguns, combat blades and heavy bolt pistols or bolt sniper rifles.

- rework Phobos to be an elite choice called “Phobos strike team” based on kill team, mix and match the various Phobos unit options and make Phobos get +1 movement, ignore difficult terrain and 4+ save.

 

So then you have:

- Carapace gives 4+ save

- Phobos gives 4+ save, ignore difficult terrain and +1 mov

- Tacticus gives 3+ save

- Gravis gives 3+ save, +1 wound and toughness but -1 mov

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Posted (edited)

Do the Black Templar "Scouts" have different stats to the ordinary Scouts? I don't remember?

 

It's a difficult balancing trick. Maybe those new Scouts rules need M7 since they're in lighter armour?

Edited by Captain Idaho
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Do the Black Templar "Scouts" have different stats to the ordinary Scouts? I don't remember?

I believe they have two wounds and the Primaris keyword. I'm not sure about their wargear, however.

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Posted (edited)

 

Do the Black Templar "Scouts" have different stats to the ordinary Scouts? I don't remember?

I believe they have two wounds and the Primaris keyword. I'm not sure about their wargear, however.

 

Black Templars have two versions of their Neophytes, a Primaris Neophyte that can be taken in the Primaris Crusader squad (who has two wounds and the Primaris keyword like Orange Knight said) and a regular Neophyte that can be taken in the Crusader squad (only one wound and the whole squad are Firstborn). 

 

The Primaris neophyte can take a bolt pistol and chainsword/shotgun/bolt carbine, while the Firstborn neophyte can take a bolt pistol and combat knife/shotgun/boltgun. Only real difference in wargear is the chainsword vs combat knife (-1 AP on the chainsword) and the bolt carbine vs bolter (assault 2 vs rapid fire 1). 

Edited by Lord_Ikka
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Anyone ever compared the models of the new neophytes vs older scouts? Wheres the main bulk difference come in? Lower body? Was wondering if it'd work to just slap the upper body of a neophyte on to a scouts lower body...
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I'm not sure we'll see Scouts added to Marine squads like Black Templars. In fact, I'd be confident to bet against it if Paddy Power were taking odds.

 

A new and relevant Scouts squad? I imagine GW are kinda stuck really. They've wrote themselves into a corner with Phobos armour basically fulfilling the role of Scouts as Troops choices. When Scouts were Troops, they were prioritised over other choices due to being cheaper.

 

Yeah, I can't imagine scouts being mixed into other marine squads. That design space really should be reserved for BT.

 

I think your second point is great as well. In my mind the 3 worst marine infantry units are scouts, reivers, and assault marines. All 3 of them would be fine as troop choices, and because of that they aren't worth a premium slot. I think moving scouts and reivers to fast attack, and all 3 gaining objective secured would help a little bit. That said in this edition with all the crazy options, it's really hard to take more units that rely on str 4 attacks then you have to. That isn't an issue for just marines either, a lot of armies have units that really should just be troops.

 

It will be interesting to see if they do update scouts how they handle it. With the new kill team just released I doubt we'd see it any time soon because that would be the ideal spot to redo them.  

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