Ideas and hopes for the new R-U-L-E-S

[bigtrouble]

I think 3+d3 dmg is where anybody agrees.

 

Not just for the Vindicator but for Lascannons too

Yes, this. And I’d also like to see assault cannons go to AP-2, supercharged plasma to AP-4.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

 

I think 3+d3 dmg is where anybody agrees.

 

Not just for the Vindicator but for Lascannons too

Yes, this. And I’d also like to see assault cannons go to AP-2, supercharged plasma to AP-4.

do they though? Or does the lethality of everything else just need to be toned down a bit? Edited June 2, 2022 by Inquisitor_Lensoven

[DesuVult]

 

 

I think 3+d3 dmg is where anybody agrees.

 

Not just for the Vindicator but for Lascannons too

Yes, this. And I’d also like to see assault cannons go to AP-2, supercharged plasma to AP-4.

do they though? Or does the lethality of everything else just need to be toned down a bit?

With the buffed survivability a lot of low AP weapons lack relevance. Even high AP weapons like plasma struggle. Edited June 2, 2022 by DesuVult

[Captain Idaho]

 

 

I think 3+d3 dmg is where anybody agrees.

Not just for the Vindicator but for Lascannons too

Yes, this. And I’d also like to see assault cannons go to AP-2, supercharged plasma to AP-4.

do they though? Or does the lethality of everything else just need to be toned down a bit?

I think many people would like to see lethality in 40K toned down, but it's more realistic to see Space Marines get a buff than 4-6 Codex books released since getting completely rewritten.

[Captain Idaho]

On reflection in context of the new Chaos Marine Codex, I think many many people are looking at some changes with an envious eye.

Land Raiders and tanks in general getting +1 toughness if fairly big. Whether Armour of Contempt exists then is hard to say, since it's apparently not in the main Chaos Marines Codex book, but increased survivability is paramount. 

It's looking like main guns on some vehicles will receive a boost. Predators and Land Raiders with twin lascannons is an obvious comparison, but this might extend further for many choices we run such as twin lascannons on Storm Ravens, for example.

The Vindicator is likely to receive the boost to its main cannon, a well increase in effectiveness. This might see Hunters and Stalkers receiving similar treatment, though that is unlikely to happen if I'm honest.

Naturally we can't have legacy vehicles being lifted up without raising up the new Primaris vehicles. The Repulsor needs to drop that silly Lastalon nonsense and just have the boosted twin lascannons of the Chaos Land Raider. That'll go a long way to making it relevant. A 2+ save seems a must if the vehicle is going to T9, but regardless of that the save probably needs going up.

I think it's inevitable that Gladiators will receive a glow up. The Repulsor Executioner too, I imagine. Those big lasers will definitely become very powerful in the next Codex.

On a basic rules level, a slight tweak to profiles is possible with a universal additional attack being added to infantry across the board. Maybe some tweaks to the Chapter Tactics rules too, since some aren't was functional or relevant as they once were.

[phandaal]

Going to keep beating the drum for custom chapter superdoctrines. Would be a cool thing to do for people who use the main codex.

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

2 hours ago, Captain Idaho said:

Naturally we can't have legacy vehicles being lifted up without raising up the new Primaris vehicles. The Repulsor needs to drop that silly Lastalon nonsense and just have the boosted twin lascannons of the Chaos Land Raider. That'll go a long way to making it relevant. A 2+ save seems a must if the vehicle is going to T9, but regardless of that the save probably needs going up.

And how do you imagine all the people who've bought and assembled Repulsors over the last five years will take to suddenly having their models invalidated and needing to surgically remove the Las-Talon and then acquire and attach a new bit if they want to use them in an organized event? I can remember you complaining about the Dark Imperium and Plague War novels being re-released because you weren't going to be sent the new versions. A single Repulsor costs more than those two books put together and lot of players have multiples.

[Kallas]

8 minutes ago, Lord Nord said:

And how do you imagine all the people who've bought and assembled Repulsors over the last five years will take to suddenly having their models invalidated and needing to surgically remove the Las-Talon and then acquire and attach a new bit if they want to use them in an organized event

Uh, I think Idaho is talking rules: replace the Las-talon's profile on the Repulsor with a Twin Lascannon (and the newly boosted CSM Land Raider's version of d6+2 damage).

Not an actual new bit that people need to source.

[Captain Idaho]

Yep, that is exactly what I'm saying. A Lastalon just looks like a twin lascannon and does the same at 24". I actually think that's an easy buff for Repulsors too.

Let's not have a knee-jerk reaction to anything 

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

33 minutes ago, Kallas said:

Uh, I think Idaho is talking rules: replace the Las-talon's profile on the Repulsor with a Twin Lascannon (and the newly boosted CSM Land Raider's version of d6+2 damage).

Not an actual new bit that people need to source.

That wouldn't be "dropping" the Las-Talon. It would merely be changing the statline.

2 minutes ago, Captain Idaho said:

Yep, that is exactly what I'm saying. A Lastalon just looks like a twin lascannon and does the same at 24". I actually think that's an easy buff for Repulsors too.

Let's not have a knee-jerk reaction to anything 

A Las-Talon "looks like a *twin* lascannon?"

It's a SINGLE-barreled weapon. It doesn't look like a TWIN anything.

Edited June 29, 2022 by Lord Nord
doesn't doesn't

[Captain Idaho]

 OK, I'll clarify further... a lastalon looks like a lascannon, twin Lastalon looks like a twin lascannon.

I'm suggesting GW can drop Las Talons and just call them Lascannons/Twin Lascannons as necessary. Following the rules in Chaos Marines Codex, this should see a boost for units such as the Repulsor alongside (hopefully) a stat change.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

On 6/2/2022 at 12:06 AM, DesuVult said:

With the buffed survivability a lot of low AP weapons lack relevance. Even high AP weapons like plasma struggle.

Buffing assault cannon to -2 to won’t effect those survivability buffs

not to mention the simple fact some small survivability buffs don’t justify making more weapons even more deadly.

this edition is extremely lethal, so no regardless of small buffs to survivability there’s no reason to make already deadly weapons more deadly.

 

both weapons currently fill their niche quite well.

if one wasn’t doing  well in its niche as a result of the buffs you’d be 100% right they’d need a buff, but that’s not the case

Edited June 30, 2022 by Inquisitor_Lensoven

[Sword Brother Adelard]

I think there's some confusion as to what weapons a Repulsor carries which is causing the disagreement here.

The single barreled laser weapon you can put in the turret of a Repulsor is a Las-Talon.

The twin barrelled laser weapon you can put in the hull mount, is, despite this being a newer Primaris vehicle, still a Twin Lascannon. Not a Twin Las-Talon.

Now, with that cleared up, let's play nice.

 

[CCE1981]

With Nephilim vastly reducing CPs, effectively by 8, the Chapter Master upgrade should grant 1-2 CPs.  This would be in line with named Chapter Masters getting CPs whole still giving those Characters a little more like free relics.

Edited July 1, 2022 by CCE1981
Typo

[Medjugorje]

After the CP are dropped down I would like to see some Stratagems for free with Chapter Master, MoS ...

[TheNewman]

Considering what just happened the CSM I'm a lot more worried about all the jump pack characters we stand to lose.

[Captain Idaho]

The fear of everything Firstborn going to Legends is so present this just adds to it.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

18 hours ago, CCE1981 said:

With Nephilim vastly reducing CPs, effectively by 8, the Chapter Master upgrade should grant 1-2 CPs.  This would be in line with named Chapter Masters getting CPs whole still giving those Characters a little more like free relics.

I wouldn’t expect codex rules to be based off of nephilim’s rules in any way.

In a few months there will be a new book with new rules. Some of those rules may be reducing starting CP even more, or they may increase starting CP.

I expect our next codex in 10th, and don’t expect many of nephilim’s rules to last that long. Heck nephilim’s rules don’t even effect all game modes now.

[Guest Triszin]

drop the command point charge for forgeworld/Horus heresy units.

[The Emperors Champion22]

I would like to see marines get shock assault built into their datasheet like chaos marines did.

Veterans should have an extra wound to be a bridge between standard troops and full characters, and gain a rule like 6s to hit generate extra hits.

Also i think they should remove the differences between basic power weapons and standardize the stats like the new accursed weapons in chaos space marines, either the same statline as accursed weapons or make them +2 str, -2 ap, 1 damage baseline since its just taking the middle ground of the maul, axe, and sword respectively.

[Captain Idaho]

That's a very good point... cutting down on rules to keep track of aside, balancing the best power weapon choices is difficult simply because it's normally power swords or fists/Thunder Hammers, or Lighning Claws.

Swords, Mauls or Axes could be rolled into "power weapons" and I don't think we'd miss anything special. In fact, we might see choices of weapons we don't normally just for modelling. 

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Also vets should be three base attacks across the board.

[brother_b]

For the OP: As a Scars player I don’t want to be the “bike” army, I want that to be a facet of a multi-faceted army.

My hope going forward is … less rules and less bloat. Not sure how to get there but it must be tried. The game is getting out of control and hard to follow.

 

[Captain Idaho]

That'll be 10th edition at best due to the any new Codex being a pale shadow compared to what we have released (look at a less bloat, less rules potential release and compare it to other armies currently at the top now - it'll be so under powered GW may as well not bother!)

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

10 hours ago, Gr4pist22 said:

I would like to see marines get shock assault built into their datasheet like chaos marines did.

Veterans should have an extra wound to be a bridge between standard troops and full characters, and gain a rule like 6s to hit generate extra hits.

Also i think they should remove the differences between basic power weapons and standardize the stats like the new accursed weapons in chaos space marines, either the same statline as accursed weapons or make them +2 str, -2 ap, 1 damage baseline since its just taking the middle ground of the maul, axe, and sword respectively.

You mean power weapons should go back to just being generic power weapons again?