Post Nephilim Black Templars - State of the Chapter 2022

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

The list is a total grinder.

[Tokugawa]

Interesting. With AoC and Uphold, 5pts shields on VV just upgraded 5++isv to 4++. So we may not need it any longer. 

 

 

[Emperor Ming]

Ah ofc vanguard vets

Serve lack of anti tank

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

It’s an Aggro list… doesn’t need big guns.

[Palmu]

If you kill everything with Objectice Secured, they can't contest objectives. Very simple! And assumably if there's a big enough vehicle/monster problem, the Termies could teleport in, get Canticle of Hate'd and kill it by chainfist application.

[Tokugawa]

43 minutes ago, Palmu said:

If you kill everything with Objectice Secured, they can't contest objectives. Very simple! And assumably if there's a big enough vehicle/monster problem, the Termies could teleport in, get Canticle of Hate'd and kill it by chainfist application.

BT is not in lack of Obsec. Rite of war always have high priority when picking WLTs, and BT can pay CP to make one core unit Obsec when urgent.

[Palmu]

5 hours ago, Tokugawa said:

BT is not in lack of Obsec. Rite of war always have high priority when picking WLTs, and BT can pay CP to make one core unit Obsec when urgent.

What I was trying to say that you don't need anti-tank if you just remove everything else from the board. Their vehicles can then kill as much stuff from you as they want but it won't win them the game.

[Medjugorje]

3 hours ago, Palmu said:

What I was trying to say that you don't need anti-tank if you just remove everything else from the board. Their vehicles can then kill as much stuff from you as they want but it won't win them the game.

But some units are too dangerous. A bit of anti-tank should be in each list because you dont want to be shot 5 rounds by heavy hitters. 3 Impulsors with MM + Eliminators with Las Fusils - OR 3 Macro Plasmacannons on Dreads is enough to kill the worst of your enemies. Later in the game your sentence is correct then but you should kill at least the biggest threat

 

Edited July 12, 2022 by Medjugorje

[Medjugorje]

On 7/11/2022 at 1:24 PM, Black Blow Fly said:

 

Edited July 12, 2022 by Medjugorje

[SirJyo]

Sigh, gone are the times of BT devout pushing into flyers. 
They couldn't attack the flyer, but by the emperor it would stop them from shooting.

Also funny to imagine a flyer rolling to try and shake a screaming squad of templars off. Of whom hurl themselves high into the air with and presumably gripping onto a speeding jet through sheer spite.

[Palmu]

On 7/12/2022 at 7:06 PM, Medjugorje said:

But some units are too dangerous. A bit of anti-tank should be in each list because you dont want to be shot 5 rounds by heavy hitters. 3 Impulsors with MM + Eliminators with Las Fusils - OR 3 Macro Plasmacannons on Dreads is enough to kill the worst of your enemies. Later in the game your sentence is correct then but you should kill at least the biggest threat

 

Which the list does have, tbh. Not the ranged sort sure, but both termies AND the Vanguards can in fact kill a lot of vehicles on the charge, Vanguards through pure weight of dice and Terminators by judicious chainfist application. 

Like, it's not ideal but it can be done, reliably too. The list still seems like a pretty typical 'roll the dice' tourney list where you just pray you don't get a terrible matchup OR the owner had enough meta-knowledge about the local scene to know what to focus in. Either way their roll of the dice clearly worked 

[Emperor Ming]

Is the single inq in the posted list for psychic interrogation? one inq with no buffs to cast seems rather risky

I thought redemptor dreads were popular with templars, maybe that was last chapter approved

[Tokugawa]

1 hour ago, Emperor Ming said:

Is the single inq in the posted list for psychic interrogation? one inq with no buffs to cast seems rather risky

I thought redemptor dreads were popular with templars, maybe that was last chapter approved

Usually for psychic interrogation secondary, and some deny if needed. Its psychic power don't really matter. 

 

Personally I won't use a nameless inquisitor, spend CP to upgrade him is too luxury today, and if this squishy VIP boy dies by accident, you can no longer score VP on that secondary. At least Rex/Coteaz has much more raw power and survivability.

[Emperor Ming]

I totally agree, the inquisition on a whole need looking at

I wouldn't be spending cp on them either

Rex is rather tanky for a human, shame you would be wasting a cast to use him for PI

But at least you would never spend any cp on him

100pts is a lot thou

[The Emperors Champion22]

On 6/24/2022 at 10:24 PM, Medjugorje said:

I dont know if that would be the best solution for sword brethren because everybody who build them with chainwords would be .... you know.

 

I think they should give them additional rules. 

I wish that they wouldve just jacked up the points and made them honor guard equivalents, im talking 2+ WS, 3 Wounds, 4 Attacks, 9 Ld, 2+ save, and damage 2 weapons like the sanguinary guard. and make their stratagem part of their datasheet so 6s to hit generate an extra hit. just jack the points up i dont care, make them good. 

[The Emperors Champion22]

On 6/25/2022 at 5:27 PM, Medjugorje said:

but a better weapon should be more expensive. How should people feel when they build chainswords on them but they have no benefit. Not even that they are cheaper.

 

SB should cost 19 points. They trade their specialrule + 1 attack + weapon options VS Troopchoice + Obsec

SB should not be 19 points, they would still be overcosted. 

Chaos Legionaries are 18 PPM with an extra attack and the option to take a ton of different weapons, icons, and other upgrades.

SB should be 15PPM

[Medjugorje]

na... I think they need 2 out of them 3 to be really REALLY worth it:

 

+1 wound

+1 to hit

advance + charge

[Tokugawa]

Just use the models as BGV. Problem solved. If strictly WYSWYG required, buy some shields bits and glue to the backpacks.

[Tokugawa]

New problem popped: BT has ~0 ways of dealing damage outside of shooting and fight phase. So BT can't deal with Abbaddon/Ghaz/CTan effectively, but they are becoming more popular…

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

If you are really worried take an Inquisitor for Smite.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

There are a few ways to deal wounds in the charge phase, but they're pretty niche. 

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I like PCS better since you can take two pyre blasters - they do work.

[Tokugawa]

If you want a 10 men unit then primaris crusader is the choice. Assault intercessor is more flexible for taking 7 or 8 models in one unit. It also have ability to fight-twice when desperately needed.

[Medjugorje]

9 hours ago, EnsignJoker said:

Do you think the Primaris crusader squad is better at replacing an assault Intercessor or regular Intercessor squad? I like taking an objective camping bolt rifle Intercessor squad for the extra AP and range over the auto bolters the crusaders have. The Primaris assault squads are cheaper than a melee Primaris crusader squad though so there is that to consider too. 

depends on your list I would say. But I am not convinced by CS. Normal Intercessors can shoot twice if its immportant and assault intercessors can fight twice. Because AoC the Neophytes are not superior to normal marines anymore.

I come home from a competitve training session and in my gaming club. What I learned is that CS just work when you have enough other units which have enough fire support. You need the storm speeders and stuff like that. I always more into the flamer. Very sad that the 2dmg never gone threw the playsting phase. I dont know if 15 points for the relic variant is really worth it but in tactical phase S6 -4AP with autohits sounds not that bad.

 

BTW... I did loose against the drukhari again... and again it was very painful although it was not that painful. But I made 12 points even I was tabled in last round with the new secoundary. Assault squad is fine but 90 points for the cheapest unit we have is a tax. Marines have a big problem in competitve games right now. 

Edited July 31, 2022 by Medjugorje

[Tokugawa]

2 hours ago, Medjugorje said:

depends on your list I would say. But I am not convinced by CS. Normal Intercessors can shoot twice if its immportant and assault intercessors can fight twice. Because AoC the Neophytes are not superior to normal marines anymore.

I come home from a competitve training session and in my gaming club. What I learned is that CS just work when you have enough other units which have enough fire support. You need the storm speeders and stuff like that. I always more into the flamer. Very sad that the 2dmg never gone threw the playsting phase. I dont know if 15 points for the relic variant is really worth it but in tactical phase S6 -4AP with autohits sounds not that bad.

 

BTW... I did loose against the drukhari again... and again it was very painful although it was not that painful. But I made 12 points even I was tabled in last round with the new secoundary. Assault squad is fine but 90 points for the cheapest unit we have is a tax. Marines have a big problem in competitve games right now. 

After all, PCS are troops and are just troops. If opponent throw an elite unit which cost ~180pts, clash with your PCS and you usually win, then his codex is under seriously balance problem.

I think on events stage, (one of) the baddest thing for a faction, is not "your staple unit X is overpriced now" or "faction Y hard counter your army". It is "army Z do the similar thing as you, but they are better". Which means competitive players who favor this playstyle will abbandon your faction and turn to Z. Once the best players gone, the win% of the faction will fall quickly, and only hardcore true-love fans playing this faction means few innovative ideas could be created for other players to improve the performance. We already seen IF be "overwritten" by UM, and UM "overwritten" by IH in 9th. Now our IF brothers are the most miserable faction in 9th. I feel new CSM has potential of "overwrite" us...