Post Nephilim Black Templars - State of the Chapter 2022

[Blade of Sigismund]

22 hours ago, BayOkuz said:

So I played 6 games since Nephilim and I got tabled to eldar and Custodes.

Lack Deployment skills. And Do you think we should field 2x Eliminator 2x redemptor and 1x Eradicator to fully function with Range support?

Because I have a List that basicaly have 20 vang Vet with chainsw and Claw with 10x TH SS Terminator. But as the slowness takes me, I cannot even manage to sit on midrange as starting second. Eldar just hit me hard. Tabled at the end of 4th

I need some insight. It seems I forgot what was our strong side. And I need to learn deployment

 

PS: What is the NEW assault squad rules?

 

1. Are you stating you have been tabled 6 times? What are the particulars?

2.a. Lacking deployment skills is very broad. I tend to follow a couple key principles

     - Hide anything you can. Many armies will laugh at a cover save; the only way to be safe is to not be a valid target

     - Plan assault tempo - key units should be kept in reserve until they can be decisive. Anything with a native reserve deployment is key for this reason (terminators/drop pods/jump packs). By keeping key units in reserve, you remove the enemies ability to attack them before they can be of use.

     - Identify key terrain and objectives, and deploy units in accordance with their ability to capture those points. It sounds simple, but most frustration is caused because units can not realistically get where you want them due to insufficient movement, weight of enemy fire, or inability to get over an obstacle (terrain or blocking unit)

2.b. I do not agree with that. For various reasons, I avoid several of the listed units. I do not use eliminators because they do not fit my chosen theme. I only own one redemptor, and I find eradicators to be a bit of a trap. When I look for fire support, I look at several things: does it have sufficient firepower to be decisive?  Is it mobile enough to provide fires where needed? Will it survive long enough to have significant effects?

Many units can fit these ideas, but my personal favorites at the moment have been hellblasters and gladiator valiant. The first are simple and apply numbers; 30 plasma shots at ap4 will ruin most everyone's day. They will wreck infantry and up to medium armor. The down side is cost, as you will need a marshal or dreadnought to re-roll ones, and potentially transport to keep them alive. The gladiator valiant provides 10 s8-9 shots with d6 or d6+2 damage for 220 points. It punches hard on a reasonably mobile platform, and can also be placed in reserve to ensure you get those heavy weapons where they will do the most damage. I frequently take two.

3. I may be missing something here, but you seem to be describing deep striking to the center of the table with dedicated close combat units, and allowing the enemy to direct all fire at you at their will. If this is the case, you will take heavy losses while trying to chase them with slower units. Using tempo would be ensuring you are targeting their hardest hitting units as you come on to the table, removing the opportunity for them to fire.

     - I recommend using a terminator chaplain with your terminators if you are not already. This will allow you to deep strike, and recite a litany to add 2" to your charge roll. This will give the unit a re-rollable 7" charge, which should come out to roughly a 75% success rate. That way you can hit a priority target the turn you drop. I would also consider the Seal of Sigismund on them to ensure you kill what you hit.

     - Placing firing units in reserve will allow them to target units before being depleted, and give you an opportunity to react to the enemies' battle plan.

     

[Marshal Mattias]

26 minutes ago, Blade of Sigismund said:

This will allow you to deep strike, and recite a litany to add 2" to your charge roll.

Can we do this? It used to be that the chaplain had to be on the board to use a litany, as reserves were too late in the turn order. Apologies if my fuzzy rules knowledge is two editions out of date 

[Sword Brother Adelard]

3 minutes ago, Marshal Mattias said:

Can we do this? It used to be that the chaplain had to be on the board to use a litany, as reserves were too late in the turn order. Apologies if my fuzzy rules knowledge is two editions out of date 

Yeah, there's a strat to recite litanies in any phase, so you drop in, play the strat litany and only need to go 7".

[Marshal Mattias]

Ooh nice. Can't wait to get back home and try that one out 

[Tokugawa]

Canticle of hate is an aura once recited; you can simply recite it with any chaplain then move the chaplain forward to give the buff to your deep striking units. Terminator chaplain don't really do it better than other choice. 

Edited September 2, 2022 by Tokugawa

[Sword Brother Adelard]

But Blade was referring to deep striking the chaplain as well. Teleporting it in with some regular terminators and auto-reciting the canticle.

[Emperor Ming]

Thou if you deepstrike a chaplin who is a master of sanctity, don't you loose a prayer on the turn you deepstrike as the strat only allows one prayer?

Bit of a waste, esp if said chaplin is left in the lurch after the unit you buff charge off and leave the chaplin unguarded

[Sword Brother Adelard]

Maybe, but in this case, if I deep strike in some combat terminators, I am really going to want them to land that charge off the drop, they don't have ranged weapons so will just sit there like lemons if they aren't in combat, so I think in that instance it's worth losing one other litany for.
Maybe take another chaplain who can be the MoS? 

[Sir Clausel]

1 hour ago, Emperor Ming said:

Thou if you deepstrike a chaplin who is a master of sanctity, don't you loose a prayer on the turn you deepstrike as the strat only allows one prayer?

Bit of a waste, esp if said chaplin is left in the lurch after the unit you buff charge off and leave the chaplin unguarded

Canticle of hate is an aura that hits both core and characters so he can charge with them.

[Blade of Sigismund]

5 hours ago, Tokugawa said:

Canticle of hate is an aura once recited; you can simply recite it with any chaplain then move the chaplain forward to give the buff to your deep striking units. Terminator chaplain don't really do it better than other choice. 

They do it better because they have a deep strike option that does not require CP. You can deep strike him anywhere the terminators can go. 

Foot or bike chaplains may need to fight their way to the objective.

Jump packs do the same thing but have a worse armor save. That choice comes down to preference; both do the same thing.

4 hours ago, Emperor Ming said:

Thou if you deepstrike a chaplin who is a master of sanctity, don't you loose a prayer on the turn you deepstrike as the strat only allows one prayer?

Bit of a waste, esp if said chaplin is left in the lurch after the unit you buff charge off and leave the chaplin unguarded

Black Templar have a strat to auto recite one and roll for a second.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

The charge from deep strike is very effective - I used this a lot in the last league I played, it’s also highly reliable. Remember also enemy units in a terrain feature are now even easier to charge - only need 6" with the litany.

[Blade of Sigismund]

28 minutes ago, Black Blow Fly said:

The charge from deep strike is very effective - I used this a lot in the last league I played, it’s also highly reliable. Remember also enemy units in a terrain feature are now even easier to charge - only need 6" with the litany.

Have a reference for that one?

 

My go to is 10 relic terminators with chainfists deep striking in with chaplain support. I give them the seal, and point them at the biggest threat on the table that doesn't have a phase cap (can only take 3-4 wounds per phase, ie Abaddon, C'tan, Ghazgul, etc). They have one-shot everything they have touched.

It's important that you have shooting available to you if you are using this tactic, as the main way to prevent deep striking is with screening units. This is part of why I like hellblasters despite the cost: they can clear even elite infantry screens.

[Sir Clausel]

What about Relic termies with a chainfist and a lightning claw? Seems like a hard melee punch vs both hordes and elite units.
I know you give up shooting with the bolters but you get an even harder punch in melee. Might not be worth it but sounds fun :P

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

37 minutes ago, Blade of Sigismund said:

Have a reference for that one?

 

My go to is 10 relic terminators with chainfists deep striking in with chaplain support. I give them the seal, and point them at the biggest threat on the table that doesn't have a phase cap (can only take 3-4 wounds per phase, ie Abaddon, C'tan, Ghazgul, etc). They have one-shot everything they have touched.

It's important that you have shooting available to you if you are using this tactic, as the main way to prevent deep striking is with screening units. This is part of why I like hellblasters despite the cost: they can clear even elite infantry screens.

Here you go:

 

[Blade of Sigismund]

17 minutes ago, Sir Clausel said:

What about Relic termies with a chainfist and a lightning claw? Seems like a hard melee punch vs both hordes and elite units.
I know you give up shooting with the bolters but you get an even harder punch in melee. Might not be worth it but sounds fun :P

 

I value having the firepower for when they are not in combat or to clear things on their way to the target. It allows them to fight in two phases as opposed to one, to decisively effect targets the chainfists aren't suited for, and gives them 7 attacks over two phases as opposed to 4 in one phase with a lightening claw. In addition, they have killed everything they have hit so far, so I don't feel like I need more melee power.

That said, when building a unit, the right choice of equipment depends on your list. What's important is that they are equipped to synergize with the rest of your force and complete the task you have in mind for them.

[Blade of Sigismund]

5 minutes ago, Black Blow Fly said:

Here you go:

 

 

Interesting. I usually use my terminators to assault armor, which mitigates this somewhat, but that definitely increases the reliability if the scenario comes up.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I think in my last league I only ever failed one charge out of deep strike… lucky I guess.

[Khornestar]

Re-roll advance and charge has proven super useful in every game, as one would expect. Made some long-bomb charges last game, I don't think I failed a single one... atypical but goes to show how much the re-rolls matter.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

It’s huge for a melee army and saves a lot of CP too.

[Blade of Sigismund]

Someone earlier stated they did not understand what Black Templar were good at. To me, it's this. They are extremely efficient at achieving mass and using it without requiring a ton of CP.

Crusaders are a steal at 178 for 10. They get upgrades from vows, chaplains, and relics all without requiring CP.

Every unit gets vows, and everything is better at charging or advancing.

Every basic unit gets improvement from BT rules from minor points cost or for free. This may not matter much on a single big unit, as stacking strategems can overshadow the effect, but the more models you have on the table, the more pronounced the effect becomes.

There's also a compounding effect; because your troops are better, it's possible to balance your specialist units for other tasks. 

[Medjugorje]

if you want to take something special what BT are better or what BT can do what others cant:

to create a very very durable unit with Gravis / Termis which can have a 5++ and 4+++ for one round in addition to a model in this squad with +1W and -1dmg ability which can be healed again and again. You can play the marker game far better then most other chapters and and least as good as others.

 

And create a horror list against each psyker related army.

Edited September 3, 2022 by Medjugorje