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New Codex and Index Combos


Cheex
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Now that some full reviews are out in the wild (in particular, Auspex Tactics gives a great summary of every non-Crusade rule in the book), I think it's time to start thinking of interesting combinations for our new rules!

To get the ball rolling, here's one that I've been calling the Flaming Gorefather.

Chaos Lord or Exalted Champion w/ Flames of Spite WLT, Gorefather Relic

Flames of Spite has been updated to not only give an extra MW on 6s to wound, but also full rerolls to wound. This means that 6s to wound with Gorefather cause a whopping 4MW on the target, and you can reroll any of your dice to wound - even successes to fish for those 6s.

The Exalted Champion gets 6A on the charge; Chaos Lord gets 7 and Terminator Lord gets 8. Wanton Slaughter (exploding 6s in melee) is statistically the same as getting +1 to hit, so if you need it you can also pop Stoke the Nails strat to guarantee exploding 6s.

On average, you can expect one or two 6s to wound with this combo, depending on which character it's on. For added spice, you could run him along with a Dark Apostle for full rerolls to hit. That's enough to down most characters just with MWs, while putting out enough other wounding hits that you'd probably finish off most others.

What other interesting combos have you come across so far?

Edited by Cheex
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Well, this week end I'll be trying a 10 man red butchers terminator squad, all Combi bolters and AW and the black rune relic, followed by two dark apostles. DA n°1 knows illusory supplication, DA n°2 has the inferno tome relic so knows benediction of darkness + warp sight plea and when he prays he smites. The idea is that the red butchers walk through the field, being super hard to kill as the have transhuman to hit and no re rolls to hit, they are wounded on -1, and have always +1 save and AOC. So a plasma gun hits in 4+ with no re rolls, wounds on 4+ (3+ if overcharged but who would with no access to re rolls) and ap-3 barely moves their save to a 3+. If the unit happens to sit on cover, DA n°2 chants WSP instead of BOD, for re rolling to hit and ignores cover on shooting, which paired with the +6" and -1ap on bolters strat it's quite a punch. And when they reach melee. DAn°2 chants dark zealotry for full re rolls to hit and with access to 6's to auto wound via strat, they are a killing machine, dropping 51 attacks per activation.

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Oof, that sounds nasty. I feel like the second DA is overkill, though - you don't desperately need the cover bonus (the unit needs to be wholly within 6" for Benediction, anyway) after you already have Illusory Supplication and the Black Rune. Can definitely see the merit in using Warp Sight Plea on them, though. Throw in Daemon Shells (against non-Marines) and you've got yourself some pretty scary shooting.

Also: holy moly, how did I miss that you could give the Black Rune to a unit champion? I think that will go on my Terminator Champ every game, now...

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26 minutes ago, Cheex said:

Also: holy moly, how did I miss that you could give the Black Rune to a unit champion? I think that will go on my Terminator Champ every game, now...

This...10X Terminators w/ Black Rune, with a Terminator Lord pushing his wounds off on the unit via LOS.

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I got to try out the new codex last night, and I have to say that I'm impressed. I tried out both the Black Rune Terminator block and the Flaming Gorefather on a Chaos Lord.

The Lord didn't do much - poor target choice and poor rolls did me no favours. I'm very keen to keep trying it out, though.

The Terminators were an intimidating brick that my opponent just didn't want to deal with. When I got a lucky long-bomb charge up the field, though, they were in the middle of the enemy. He threw one of his best melee options (Aggressors, backed by a Chaplain) and killed a few, but that -1 to wound was huge. I ended the game with only five of the 10 Terminators dead after everything.

I had run out of CPs to use Apoplectic Frenzy on them since we were playing a GT mission, but next time I'll be dropping a relic elsewhere to be able to afford it.

Next test will be a Land Raider (with its glorious new lascannons), boosted by a Warpsmith for his bonus to hit.

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Cool! let us know how the new LR runs! I'm really not sold on chaos lords, so I'm skipping them. I'll be facing black templars tomorrow at 2000pts in the scourging mission. My army will be 2 apostles with the prayers I posted a few days ago, to support a 10 man red butcher squad with the black rune all accursed wpns and 2 combi meltas (I had 10 points and nothing else to buy), 2 5man and one 8man warp talons units, 2 min squads of cultist, 4 5man berzerker squads with icons and 2 drills for the berzerkers. I'll let you know how it went haha

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7 hours ago, Butcher_of_Malakir said:

Cool! let us know how the new LR runs! I'm really not sold on chaos lords, so I'm skipping them. I'll be facing black templars tomorrow at 2000pts in the scourging mission. My army will be 2 apostles with the prayers I posted a few days ago, to support a 10 man red butcher squad with the black rune all accursed wpns and 2 combi meltas (I had 10 points and nothing else to buy), 2 5man and one 8man warp talons units, 2 min squads of cultist, 4 5man berzerker squads with icons and 2 drills for the berzerkers. I'll let you know how it went haha

 

That list sounds like a blast! Red Butchers with the black rune are gonna reap some skulls! 

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Had another game today, this time only 1000pts Tempest vs Necrons. It was very much just a casual game, so I decided to try out some Helbrutes backed by a Warpsmith instead. They were fun, not amazing at shooting (even with the Warpsmith's +1 to BS) but they were decent little bricks that held enemies up long enough for Berzerkers to arrive.

Gorefather Lord did bugger all again, literally rolled no 6s to wound across two rounds of combat with full rerolls.

But the Berzerkers...my goodness they are good. If you can set them up for a reasonably reliable charge, they will delete just about anything. I had one 8-man Berzerker squad kill nine Necron Warriors, three Skorpekhs and finished off a C'Tan shard, all over three rounds of combat. Having so many high-quality attacks in one go rather than split over two fight activations is just so good - they can inflict all their damage before being interrupted, or can interrupt with all their damage. Both of those happened this game, and it was so welcome.

Ended up with my opponent conceding at the bottom of T4; he was only five VPs behind, but had just three Warriors and three Immortals left, while I had nearly all my army left and so had plenty of opportunity to score points.

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Hi guys! I played iBT n the scourging mission today, it was insane! My 2 apostles and 10 man red butcher squad with the black rune were brutal. Those red butchers tanked a round of shooting from 2 redemptor dreads and only lost 1 guy and other lost 2W, then the redemptor charged and just managed to kill the guy with 1 wound with the butchers destroying him in return and then consolidating into a 10 man vanguard vet squad and killing 3 of them in their second activation. They then hold the middle of the board against the remaining 7 vets and helbrecht charged in turn 3, loosing 4 terminators and killing 4 vets,  turn 4 other redemptor and a judiciar charged in  making them fight last, with the redemptor barely managing to finish the remaining terminators. I missplayed my 8man warp talons units, but the other 5 man we're good harassing units that prevented his troops from performing the mission actions. 5man berzerker squads are awesome and the drills are hot with those heavy flamers, so many hits! I ended up tabling him on turn 4 as he committed too much on killing my terminators so I holder most of the board and ended up killing most of his units and maxing my secondaries.

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Posted (edited)

Glad to hear Bezerkers and Butchers are doing work. I’m eager to try them out when I get the chance.

How have you found the weapon changes for both units? 

Edited by MadEdric
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21 minutes ago, MadEdric said:

Glad to hear Bezerkers and Butchers are doing work. I’m eager to try them out when I get the chance.

How have you found the weapon changes for both units? 

They didn't really affect me. My Terminators happen to be armed legally (despite being literally picked at random - I had 20 in a box ready for paint, and picked 10 of them at random), so I got lucky on that, and Berzerkers just do so much damage themselves now that losing options on the champion hasn't hurt at all.

Tangentially, it did affect my Terminator Lord that I was planning to run. He used to have a chainfist and Berzerker Glaive, but that's no longer legal. Thankfully he's magnetised so it was easy to paint a new arm for him.

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5 hours ago, MadEdric said:

Glad to hear Bezerkers and Butchers are doing work. I’m eager to try them out when I get the chance.

How have you found the weapon changes for both units? 

Accursed weapons do the work on red butchers as you are S7 with them or S8 if you use stoke the nails, just like a power fist but with no -1, being D1 Doesn't matter when you throw so many attacks, or when fighting dreadnaughts or death guard 

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16 hours ago, Cheex said:

They didn't really affect me. My Terminators happen to be armed legally (despite being literally picked at random - I had 20 in a box ready for paint, and picked 10 of them at random), so I got lucky on that, and Berzerkers just do so much damage themselves now that losing options on the champion hasn't hurt at all.

Tangentially, it did affect my Terminator Lord that I was planning to run. He used to have a chainfist and Berzerker Glaive, but that's no longer legal. Thankfully he's magnetised so it was easy to paint a new arm for him.

Mandatory reminder: magnetize your Terminator arms.

World Eaters have a Codex coming out, 99.999% guarantee the Terminator load out will be different.

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12 minutes ago, techsoldaten said:

Mandatory reminder: magnetize your Terminator arms.

World Eaters have a Codex coming out, 99.999% guarantee the Terminator load out will be different.

Might even be an entirely new kit, now that you mention it.

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8 hours ago, techsoldaten said:

Mandatory reminder: magnetize your Terminator arms.

World Eaters have a Codex coming out, 99.999% guarantee the Terminator load out will be different.

Funnily enough, my Terminators used to be magnetised. I got sick of the arms moving around between games, so glued them down. My Terminator Lord is magnetised, though - which helped because his loadout wasn't legal (chainfist + Berzerker Glaive), so I put together a combi-melta arm and magnetised that.

But as general advice, yeah I wholly agree that magnetising is the way to go. I recommend 5mm diameter - I used 3mm previously, but they were too weak. 5mm should just fit the joint.

8 hours ago, Khornestar said:

Might even be an entirely new kit, now that you mention it.

Almost definitely. I'm not too worried, 10 more unpainted (and I'm more than willing to rip off arms if needed), plus another five of the newer design and yet another five FW Red Butchers. Not to mention a 3D printer just in case there's some fancy new weapon that I absolutely must have.

Anyway, bringing the thread back to the topic of interesting combos, has anyone come up with a use for Possessed? I love the new models (whenever they eventually come out...), but without a Master of Possession* I'm finding it hard to justify them over just using more Berzerkers.

* Though technically we can take a Master of Possession, now...

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13 hours ago, Cheex said:

Funnily enough, my Terminators used to be magnetised. I got sick of the arms moving around between games, so glued them down. My Terminator Lord is magnetised, though - which helped because his loadout wasn't legal (chainfist + Berzerker Glaive), so I put together a combi-melta arm and magnetised that.

But as general advice, yeah I wholly agree that magnetising is the way to go. I recommend 5mm diameter - I used 3mm previously, but they were too weak. 5mm should just fit the joint.

Almost definitely. I'm not too worried, 10 more unpainted (and I'm more than willing to rip off arms if needed), plus another five of the newer design and yet another five FW Red Butchers. Not to mention a 3D printer just in case there's some fancy new weapon that I absolutely must have.

Anyway, bringing the thread back to the topic of interesting combos, has anyone come up with a use for Possessed? I love the new models (whenever they eventually come out...), but without a Master of Possession* I'm finding it hard to justify them over just using more Berzerkers.

* Though technically we can take a Master of Possession, now...

How can we "Technically" take a master of possessions? All characters must be marked and psykers can't take mark of khorne

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Quote

If a unit is from the World Eaters Legion, it must be upgraded to have the Mark of Khorne (see Codex: Chaos Space Marines); if a unit already has the KHORNE keyword or it cannot have the Mark of Khorne, you must instead replace every instance of CHAOS UNDIVIDED on that unit's datasheet with KHORNE

Sorcerers, Masters of Possession and Dark Communes cannot have the Mark of Khorne and have the CHAOS UNDIVIDED keyword, therefore when you  make them from World Eaters Legion they replace CHAOS UNDIVIDED with KHORNE. I honestly can't think of anything else that has CHAOS UNDIVIDED keyword that can't take a Mark of Khorne, so it must be intentional.

I'd probably do it once for a laugh...

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1 hour ago, Cheex said:

Sorcerers, Masters of Possession and Dark Communes cannot have the Mark of Khorne and have the CHAOS UNDIVIDED keyword, therefore when you  make them from World Eaters Legion they replace CHAOS UNDIVIDED with KHORNE. I honestly can't think of anything else that has CHAOS UNDIVIDED keyword that can't take a Mark of Khorne, so it must be intentional.

I'd probably do it once for a laugh...

Well, it's actually possible RAW... And no FAQ has come up yet, so it's technically viable. It can't have a mark of khorne but as the index in WD says you can replace chaos undivided with khorne...

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Posted (edited)

Trying the new codex and WE out today for the first time with the following crazy list.

Disclaimer: this is a casual funsies list, as most of my lists are. I will also be playing with the Tempest of War card deck, which we find to be great fun.

Gonna start with a whopping 4 CP (not using the new restricted CP rules for now), so less opportunity to use in-game strats as opposed to all the upgrades.

My buddy plays an Aeldari rotating alliance of Harlequins, Craftworlds, and Drukhari. These days we pretty much only play against each other. 
 

Anyway, here it is:


++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) [103 PL, 2,000pts, 4CP] ++

+ Configuration +

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points) 

Detachment Command Cost

Gametype: 2. Chapter Approved 2021

Legion: World Eaters

+ HQ +

Chaos Lord in Terminator Armour [7 PL, 130pts, -2CP]: 1. Flames of Spite, Aspiring Lord, Combi-flamer, Exalted power axe, Gifts of Chaos, Gorefather, Mark of Khorne, Talisman of Burning Blood

Daemon Prince with Wings [11 PL, 180pts, -1CP]: 4. Violent Urgency, Gifts of Chaos, Hellforged sword, Mantle of Traitors, Mark of Khorne, Warlord, Wings

Dark Apostle [6 PL, 110pts, -1CP]: 5. Eternal Vendetta, Aspiring Lord, Illusory Supplication, Mark of Khorne
. 2x Dark Disciple: 2x Close combat weapon

+ Troops +

Cultist Mob [2 PL, 50pts]
. 9x Chaos Cultist w/ cultist firearm: 9x Cultist firearm, 9x Frag & Krak grenades
. Cultist Champion: Autopistol

Cultist Mob [2 PL, 50pts]
. 9x Chaos Cultist w/ cultist firearm: 9x Cultist firearm, 9x Frag & Krak grenades
. Cultist Champion: Autopistol

Khorne Berzerkers [5 PL, 110pts]
. Berzerker Champion: Bolt pistol
. 4x Khorne Berzerker: 4x Berzerker chainblade, 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades

Khorne Berzerkers [5 PL, 110pts]
. Berzerker Champion: Bolt pistol
. 4x Khorne Berzerker: 4x Berzerker chainblade, 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades

Khorne Berzerkers [5 PL, 110pts]
. Berzerker Champion: Bolt pistol
. 4x Khorne Berzerker: 4x Berzerker chainblade, 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades

Khorne Berzerkers [5 PL, 110pts]
. Berzerker Champion: Bolt pistol
. 4x Khorne Berzerker: 4x Berzerker chainblade, 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades

+ Elites +

Chaos Terminator Squad [19 PL, 355pts, -3CP]: Mark of Khorne, Red Butchers
. Chaos Terminator: Accursed weapon, Combi-bolter
. Chaos Terminator: Accursed weapon, Combi-bolter
. Chaos Terminator: Accursed weapon, Combi-bolter
. Chaos Terminator: Accursed weapon, Combi-bolter
. Chaos Terminator: Accursed weapon, Combi-bolter
. Chaos Terminator: Accursed weapon, Combi-bolter
. Chaos Terminator: Accursed weapon, Combi-bolter
. Chaos Terminator: Accursed weapon, Combi-bolter
. Chaos Terminator: Accursed weapon, Combi-bolter
. Terminator Champion: Black Rune of Damnation, Combi-flamer, Power fist, Trophies of the Long War

Chosen [15 PL, 285pts, -1CP]: Mark of Khorne
. Chosen: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
. Chosen: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
. Chosen: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
. Chosen: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
. Chosen: Boltgun, Plasma pistol
. Chosen: Boltgun, Plasma pistol
. Chosen: Boltgun, Plasma pistol
. Chosen: Boltgun, Plasma pistol
. Chosen: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
. Chosen Champion: Bolt pistol, Boltgun, The Black Mace, Trophies of the Long War

Master of Executions [5 PL, 80pts]: Mark of Khorne

+ Heavy Support +

Havocs [8 PL, 160pts]: Mark of Khorne
. Havoc Champion: Astartes chainsword, Astartes chainsword
. 4x Havoc w/ reaper chaincannon: 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Reaper chaincannon

Havocs [8 PL, 160pts]: Mark of Khorne
. Havoc Champion: Astartes chainsword, Astartes chainsword
. 4x Havoc w/ missile launcher: 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Missile launcher

++ Total: [103 PL, 4CP, 2,000pts] ++

Will report back on this list.

Edited by Khornestar
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Well, the World Eaters smashed and overwhelmed the Aeldari alliance of Drukhari, Harlequins, and Corsairs. Tempest of War cards again proved to be great fun. Forgot to play the mission card for a couple of turns, this game there was a warp storm going on potentially causing mortal wounds to units holding objectives. A poor berzerker did get zapped for a mortal wound, psychic energy blasting out of the purple crystals we use as objectives and causing the nails to bite deep.

I won the roll off both for being defender and going first, which was mostly responsible for me pulling ahead on points. The primary rewarded points for holding 1/2/more objectives than the opponent, which I scored every turn due to the objective placement. I did exploit this advantage in deployment zone, but offered to rearrange the objectives when the game began due to the obvious advantage. My opponent said he placed them deliberately and was thus cool with it, and intended of course to kill and sweep my World Eaters off of them. That isn’t what happened, as Khorne would have it. I got a secondary to perform an action at the end of the movement phase with an Obsec unit that I got first turn, as an added bonus.

I managed to forget my cultists at home, so after cutting the chainfist on the terminator champion and a couple of plasma pistols from the chosen, I brought a fifth unit of 5 Berzerkers. The first turn I didn’t even use any CP, and due to the upgrades and buffs in the army along with conservative use of CP the low number wasn’t a huge problem.

Terminator lord with Gorefather: Managed to not roll any 6’s to wound in 2 combat phases, wiped a couple of skyweavers and provided some rerolls aura. This game he didn’t really matter too much, I’m sure with better rolls he can really shine. 6” heroic intervention did allow him to join a combat a turn early, which he bounced off of the first combat, then ripped them apart the next turn. He had 7 attacks on the charge, and the -1 to hit from Gorefather doesn’t matter, since harlequins have -1 to hit anyway. He bumped up to 8 attacks on the charge after wiping the skyweavers, but didn’t get to fight again before the game ended.

Daemon prince utilized jump to reposition and maximize his aura. The mantle of traitors allowed me to snipe out his rerolls aura to core anywhere on the table, so he alternated between havocs and Berzerkers. He killed a shadowseer in combat, the mantle allowing him to use Skulls for the Skull Throne for free to get 2 CP back. My opponent charged and killed him out of deep strike with a solitaire. I think the mantle is a great choice for him, as he should be able to kill at least one character in a game. His aura along with the lord’s allowed the dark apostle to skip dark zealotry, as well as something in the Aeldari army that turned off auras. +1“ advance and charge aura is an autoinclude for me as a warlord trait.

Dark Apostle was outstanding. I used Wrathful Entreaty to keep the chaincannon havocs in wanton destruction, and also used illusory supplication on them while in cover. Both powers are just great. His warlord trait (eternal vendetta) was good, I marked a troupe of 8 and fragged them with the havocs turn 1 (2 lived and ran). This is a really versatile ability and will be useful every game.

Havocs were meh to badass. Meh was 4 krak missiles bouncing off a voidweaver. Better was frag missile fire turn 1 blasting a troupe apart with exploding 6's and re-roll 1's aura from the terminator lord. Badass was chaincannon havocs just blasting away with wrathful entreaty on turns 2 and 3. Turn 1 they were out of range and I didn’t want to leave cover. With illusory supplication they tanked a bunch of shooting from a couple of voidweavers and death jesters, losing just the champion. They also charged and fought, dealing a few wounds to the solitaire after he wiped the prince. It was nice to have long range with the missile launchers, as they at least had targets every turn. 

Red Butchers with the black rune were tough! I dropped them mid table turn 2 to engage multiple targets, and their combi-bolters did serious work. They blasted the enemy warlord to death, then endured most of the Aeldari shooting and charges from 2 troupes, a death jester, and a shadowseer. 8 were cut down and the last 2 fled from failed morale and combat attrition. I interrupted to fight twice, but despite decent rolls the harlequins passed the vast majority of their invuln saves. This pile of enemy units was  then immediately both shot to death and charged by multiple units. It was a rout, and pretty much signaled the end for the Aeldari alliance. Black rune autoinclude on terminators in a brick of 10, my friends. 

Berzerkers were great. So many attacks. In wanton slaughter and with fury of Khorne, even a 5 man unit puts out just a bloody fountain of hits and wounds. I’m glad I forgot my cultists at home and brought a fifth unit. Having a second wound at long last on my Berzerkers feels like such a victory in and of itself, like the Nicolas Cage Con Air hair blowing in the wind meme. They’re not hard to kill, but even 2 or 3 pose a fairly big threat to Eldar infantry. Only one unit was wiped, after chopping through a unit of wyches during my turn.

Chosen were great. I used daemon shells and relentless devastation to shred a unit of incubi escorting drazhar in turn 2, which allowed me to hang back with them those extra 6” and deny drazhar the charge during his turn. Used fury of the first to rapid fire a few more wounds off drazhar in turn 3 before charging and killing him. The black mace bounced off his invuln save but the rest of the unit just cut him to shreds. I forgot about their special rule after wiping the incubi, but it likely wouldn’t have mattered. Their 3rd wound is such a sweet bonus for them.

Really fun game against my buddy, we had a blast but things tipped in my favor fairly quickly. My opponent didn’t feel like any of my units or combos were particularly cheesy or unfun, but both the black rune and armor of contempt are effective at neutering a lot of damage. He certainly could have picked stronger abilities than he did, although most of his upgrades and combos were really good. Mortal wounds are something my army has no defense against, which really hurt the terminators in particular. Random comment - Against some targets, Exploding hits with pistols really do matter. Bolt pistols are plenty capable of gunning down an elf. @Iron Father Ferrum

The army is so fun to play. After all this time, it finally feels like chaos space marines have  arrived. Every unit felt like it pulled its weight, though I only used the master of executions to screen out his solitaire from deep striking in my deployment zone. 

I know the World Eaters codex will totally change things, but for now this is very satisfying. Also sharing units with my Word Bearers will allow me to try all sorts of things. I only wish we were earlier into this edition. Still, no complaints other than loss of jump lords. 

Edited by Khornestar
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