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The Phantoms of the Rift.


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Hello all.

I made a homebrew chapter called The Phantoms of the Rift and I was wondering if you would take a look at the lore of it and let me know what you think.

I was thinking of painting them the Dusk Raiders colors and use those symbols.

 

The Phantoms of the Rift

The Phantoms of the Rift is an unknown founding chapter that comes from several chapters that were rumored to be dead when the great rift opened and consumed several systems.

Several ships of these dead chapters found each other in the Noctis Imperialis. 

 

Because they are proud of their lineage and also embraced the blood brother honor vows. They decided to change their colors and symbols to best represent what they became to be known as. These marines isolated inside the cicatrix banded together and to fight for the Emperor rather than give in to chaos, leading to a formation of an off brand mixed chapter forgetting what chapter they came from thus causing them to be unknown founding.

 

Upon receiving the primaris technology. All of the firstborn marines crossed the rubicon and developed their tactics according to their new abilities. In the future any new loyal astartes that joined the ranks would also cross the rubicon.

 

Time in the warp was not kind for the chapter. Several decades in the rift translated into several centuries have passed for them inside the rift, forcing them to take more and more drastic measures until discovered by Robutes crusade after breaking out of the rift. Robute Guilliman  gifted Primaris tech to bolster their numbers. Their gene seed turned out to be a chimeric gene seed due to the amalgamation of the different parent chapters.

 

They are a fleet based chapter. They would be an amalgamation of different ships. Due to homeworlds lost when the rift was opened.  They had to resort to scavenging wreckage they found using the experience of the techmarines and tech priest that they rescued to make it work. They would be resourceful and find some forgeworlds and help purge the enemy and the mechanicus would repair in payment.

 

Recruitment involves "killing" the aspirants, having them be buried alive, and then dug up again before being taken away by the chapter. Burying of the aspirant and him surviving to dig himself out, symbolizes the deaths and rebirths of the chapters. As if taking upon them the knowledge that it shall mark them, one way or another but they make that sacrifice for He On Terra, in full knowledge that from where they go they will not escape pure.

 

That's the start of a dispossessed flotilla of warriors of various stripes taking to patrolling the Rift, hunting Chaos. Astartes, Knights, maybe even Inquisitors, Guard, and Rogue Traders. With the blessing of the Primarch they were allowed to build their forces in this way. Sometimes recruiting from the guard and accepting into the fold the various other chapters they come across.

 

Number of marines is unknown even with the inquisition in the fleet. Guilliman has allowed this to happen.

 

Ranks:

Chapter Master: Crypt Keeper

Captain: Revenant

Lieutenant: Spectre

Chaplain: Banshee

Librarian: Lich

Apothecary: Reanimator

Sergeants: Wraiths

 

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On 7/10/2022 at 4:29 AM, USAFGrimRaptor said:

Hello all.

I made a homebrew chapter called The Phantoms of the Rift and I was wondering if you would take a look at the lore of it and let me know what you think.

Welcome to the Liber! Seems your topic was teleported to the best place to develop homebrew Chapters.

Overall, I like the concept of a group of marines from different Chapter banding together in a new 'Chapter' to survive the warp. However some of the ideas go a bit too far for what I would consider believable within the 40k universe. Hopefully my comments are useful to you.

 

On 7/10/2022 at 4:29 AM, USAFGrimRaptor said:

I was thinking of painting them the Dusk Raiders colors and use those symbols.

In-universe, people might raise an eyebrow to this. Maybe do some slight modifications to the symbol and call it a coincidence that it is so close to the Dusk Raiders?

 

On 7/10/2022 at 4:29 AM, USAFGrimRaptor said:

 

The Phantoms of the Rift

The Phantoms of the Rift is an unknown founding chapter that comes from several chapters that were rumored to be dead when the great rift opened and consumed several systems.

From our perspective, I would say the founding is either n/a (non applicable) or the 27th (Ultima founding) since the "Chapter" was formalized sometime during Guilliman's crusade.  Of course, the founding of each marines' former Chapter might be unknown, but you get what I mean.

 

On 7/10/2022 at 4:29 AM, USAFGrimRaptor said:

Because they are proud of their lineage and also embraced the blood brother honor vows. They decided to change their colors and symbols to best represent what they became to be known as. These marines isolated inside the cicatrix banded together and to fight for the Emperor rather than give in to chaos, leading to a formation of an off brand mixed chapter forgetting what chapter they came from thus causing them to be unknown founding.

We know of other people in the 40k universe who temporarily get lost in the warp and get affected by Chaos with no problem remembering their pasts. So if forgetting their former Chapters (and not forgetting almost anything else?) is something that you still want to keep, I'd suggest implying it was some specific effect, maybe created by Tzeentch, effecting specific memories.? If not, then I would just drop the momory-loss aspect and justify their rebranding in other ways.

Perhaps the warp mutated them, not so much that they could not continue fighting, but corrupting their geneseed enough so they are unable to rejoin their old Chapters.

On 7/10/2022 at 4:29 AM, USAFGrimRaptor said:

 

Upon receiving the primaris technology. All of the firstborn marines crossed the rubicon and developed their tactics according to their new abilities. In the future any new loyal astartes that joined the ranks would also cross the rubicon.

This one seems unlikely. If the Phantoms were a single Chapter lost in the Warp that resurfaced with no mutations to their geneseed, then maybe they would be allowed to continue fighting . They may have received some equipment though, more on that below.

 

On 7/10/2022 at 4:29 AM, USAFGrimRaptor said:

Time in the warp was not kind for the chapter. Several decades in the rift translated into several centuries have passed for them inside the rift, forcing them to take more and more drastic measures until discovered by Robutes crusade after breaking out of the rift. Robute Guilliman  gifted Primaris tech to bolster their numbers. Their gene seed turned out to be a chimeric gene seed due to the amalgamation of the different parent chapters.

This one is even more unlikely for the same reasons as above. 

 

On 7/10/2022 at 4:29 AM, USAFGrimRaptor said:

Recruitment involves "killing" the aspirants, having them be buried alive, and then dug up again before being taken away by the chapter. Burying of the aspirant and him surviving to dig himself out, symbolizes the deaths and rebirths of the chapters. As if taking upon them the knowledge that it shall mark them, one way or another but they make that sacrifice for He On Terra, in full knowledge that from where they go they will not escape pure.

The ritual is fine, but for the same reasons above, I don't think they would be allowed to take new recruits. It is also unlikely that they would know haw to work with warped chimeric geneseed in a consistent way.

 

On 7/10/2022 at 4:29 AM, USAFGrimRaptor said:

Guilliman has allowed this to happen.

Why? I think if you can justify this question then you have a good basis for the "Chapter" to continue fighting and maybe even get some new tech (but not geneseed related). Otherwise, I think they would most likely be put to death or at the least be allowed to fight alongside Guilliman's crusade or other newly created Chapters, until they die and their equipment can be salvaged. An honourable death, so to speak. But only if their mutations were within reason and if they have somehow proven their worjht to Guilliman or something.

So if I was making these guys, I would make them a Guilliman sanctioned 'Death Chapter', allowed to fight to the last man in honor of their efforts, to live out their last painful days in service to the Imperium. Since they can't return to their former Chapters, they re-brand with a new name and colors, but maybe retain some small tokens and memorabilia to remember their past. This would be recent enough in the timeline that there would still be a good number of the Phantoms left in the 'current times.'

 

On 7/10/2022 at 4:29 AM, USAFGrimRaptor said:

Ranks:

Chapter Master: Crypt Keeper

Captain: Revenant

Lieutenant: Spectre

Chaplain: Banshee

Librarian: Lich

Apothecary: Reanimator

Sergeants: Wraiths

Some of these are okay, but mostly a bit on the nose, imo. And I don't really see why they would re-brand their ranks this way even though you like it, you know what I mean?

 

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Having to dig your way out of being buried as an initiation rite is a good idea: It's grim, it fits the death and rebirth theme you're going for, and it's so unhinged it suggests these guys are probably quite nuts, which makes sense if they're survivors who've been stuck in the Noctis Aeterna for ages due to warp time dilation.

The primaris thing is an issue, though. The failure rate for crossing the rubicon is very high, and a Torchbearer fleet is unlikely to hand over Greyshield reinforcements to a rag-tag bunch of desperados who've abandoned their old chapter identities.

One possible solution might be to have a primary chapter that most of your survivors come from. You could explain some of their stranger traditions as relating to their lost planet's culture - if you want Crypt Keeper as an officer rank, maybe they were wardens of a funerary world before the fall of Cadia?
This way, even if they've changed their name and incorporated some amnesiac survivors they rescued along the way, they should still be able to prove that they're a legitimate chapter. If there was a fleet sent to bring them primaris reinforcements, you've got the basis for a story there about how those guys had to integrate into a chapter that's totally different from the one they expected to meet, which could be pretty interesting.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Welcome to the B&C Brother, and the ranks of THE LIBER:woot:

Nice work here on your home brewed chapter:thumbsup: It has some very unique flavor and an edginess that fits well into the grim darkness of our universe of favor. Both Codex Grey and Urauloth bring valid concerns and good workable solutions to the table. Some of the details as written make your chapter problematic for full sanction by the Imperium as an official new chapter as well as receiving Primaris geneseed and associated technology. If you wish to proceed without change, Grey Codex presented a fine solution in being recognized by the Primarch as a Death Chapter in honor to their demonstrated loyalty and dedication to the Imperium.

If you are determined to go the Primaris course and have your chapter officially recognized one possible solution is to ditch the Chimeric gene-seed idea for an amalgam. Starting as a loose alliance of isolated units of different chapters, over time setting aside their differences and uniting to create a more effective fighting force and creating a new brotherhood based on shared adversity. Such an alliance without the mutated gene-seed controversy would be more palatable as a new but still unique chapter. Given the logistics problems of the Noctis Imperialis, the chapter could scavenge gene-seeds and other needed supplies after battle or from the grave sites of other battles. This would create some accounting challenges and hard feelings from chapters that might find out about these unsavory practices, but it's not unheard of.

Amongst all of our critiques and suggestions, keep in mind that this is your chapter, and you alone hold its destiny in hand. So, proceed as you see fit. On the whole, you've made a good solid start:yes: I'm looking forward to more details.

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What BL said :)

Also, reading BL's response brought another idea to mind. What if the Rift Phantoms were' allowed to lead and train a freshly made Chapter from the Ultima Founding, thereby continuing the Phantoms Chapter in most ways, including colors, symbols and customs, but with the Chapter's geneseed reset to a single line, like Ultramarines or something.

Edited by Codex Grey
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I see that the gene seed is a big issue with this chapter. What if this chapter had either been a part of the results of Cawl using traitor geneseed and Guiliman allowed the chapter to form for some sort of redemption. 

 

I also saw that the memory loss was an issue. I honestly don't know what else to do because this has been in the works for about year. So you see i am a little discouraged. 

 

The ranks I wanted to represent something unique. As I mentioned above I dunno what to do.

 

I accept your criticism but I obviously don't know how to do lore. So if you guys want to offer more changes please do. 

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Please don't be discouraged (I know that's easier said than done). Writing can be a painful process, but the satisfaction when you find ways to improve is usually worth it IMO. I spent 3 years finishing my first Chapter concept, and have recently come back after over 10 years to further improve it :smile:

Also I don't think it's right to say you don't know how to do lore. Firstly, no-one does at first, and secondly, what you have written so far shows great promise.

Quote

I see that the gene seed is a big issue with this chapter. What if this chapter had either been a part of the results of Cawl using traitor geneseed and Guiliman allowed the chapter to form for some sort of redemption. 

You could do this, though I don't think Cawl would let anyone know. There has been hints in the lore about Cawl using Traitor geneseed, but nothing has been stated outright (as far as I know), so I don't think Guilliman would know.

To be clear, my issue was primarily with the combination of having mutated chimera geneseed AND Primaris upgrades, as I don't personally see them being allowed get the Primaris upgrade if their geneseed has gone all wonky. So you could still go for a Chapter with chimeric geneseed OR a lost Chapter that gets Primaris upgrades. But this and all my other comments are of course just my opinion.

 

Perhaps I some questions can help.

What are the core aspects of your original post/concept you want to preserve?

What is it about the changes we have suggested that you don't like, or doesn't fit with what you want with this Chapter?

Edited by Codex Grey
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So with the traitor geneseed only known to cawl would they qualify as an unknown founding?

 

My main concept is to be able to use any ones tactics and relics in game instead of focusing on one chapter origin.

The idea of a bunch of survivors working together sounded like it would work.

But I'm leaning more towards loyalist "traitor" geneseed. 

 

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I second Brother Codex's sentiments of developing lore:yes: Don't get discouraged:no: It can very much be an evolutionary process that requires research, critical self-review and lots of editing. 

If you want to go the traitor gene-seed route, Iron Warriors are one of my favorites. Here and there are a couple of links to get you started if you are interested. If you want to go the chimera route, that's fine too. Either way, don't forget the how's and why's. Why were they created this way, how do they keep their secrets, etc. When developing your lore figure out in your head how you are going to justify it within the broad spectrum of the official lore. Don't hesitate to throw stuff out that doesn't work, but don't be afraid to stretch the official lore to its limits either.

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3 hours ago, Brother Lunkhead said:

Sure, Night Lords could work. Any gene-seed could work. The trick is being able to sell it in your lore.

I'm not sure how to word it. So any suggestions would be appreciated. 

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20 hours ago, USAFGrimRaptor said:

I'm not sure how to word it. So any suggestions would be appreciated. 

First off, are you set on using Night Lords gene-seed in your setting and if so, how familiar are you with their background and lore?

 

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Commenting from the top as I read stuff, which means that I might say stuff already said by others:

On 7/10/2022 at 4:29 AM, USAFGrimRaptor said:

The Phantoms of the Rift is an unknown founding chapter that comes from several chapters that were rumored to be dead when the great rift opened and consumed several systems.

Suggest instead of "is an unkown founding" have "is a chapter of nominaly Ultima Founding" 

Suggest instead of "that comes from several chapters that were rumored to be dead" have "that was created from the remains of serveral chapters belived lost"

 

On 7/10/2022 at 4:29 AM, USAFGrimRaptor said:

Upon receiving the primaris technology. All of the firstborn marines crossed the rubicon and developed their tactics according to their new abilities. In the future any new loyal astartes that joined the ranks would also cross the rubicon.

Unless they did get the technology very late so did the primaris technology STC not have the information about the Rubicon Primaris process. That was spread out later.

 

On 7/10/2022 at 4:29 AM, USAFGrimRaptor said:

They would be an amalgamation of different ships. Due to homeworlds lost when the rift was opened.  They had to resort to scavenging wreckage they found using the experience of the techmarines and tech priest that they rescued to make it work.

Maybe something about them using ships that the Codex say Astartes should not command, and/or that their fleet is partly made up by navy, merchant, Rogue Trader and similar ships. 

 

On 7/10/2022 at 4:29 AM, USAFGrimRaptor said:

Recruitment involves "killing" the aspirants, having them be buried alive, and then dug up again before being taken away by the chapter. Burying of the aspirant and him surviving to dig himself out, symbolizes the deaths and rebirths of the chapters. As if taking upon them the knowledge that it shall mark them, one way or another but they make that sacrifice for He On Terra, in full knowledge that from where they go they will not escape pure.

Like this, but since they are a fleet based Chapter, maybe have something more fitting with how voidborn take care of their dead? Unless their ships have large areas with earth on them, which is not that unlikley since gardens (for the extra oxygen, food, and/or possibly beauty) is something many ships likley have.

 

On 7/10/2022 at 4:29 AM, USAFGrimRaptor said:

Their gene seed turned out to be a chimeric gene seed due to the amalgamation of the different parent chapters.

Think there should be some kind of downside because of this, either during the process of becoming a Astartes - notable number of failures (to death or unforseen mutations), hard to find aspirants that are good gene-matches, the Astartes creation process take a very long time (comparably speaking), etc. - or afterward - physical and/or mental flaws among the full Astartes (don't need to have any game-play effect but could be in the background), lack of fully functional implants, berserk tendency, some of the gene-seed impants begin to fail after a time, etc. 

A possebility could be that the genetic downsides (physical and/or mental) of the chapters that united to become tha Phantoms appears all (more or less) among the battle-brothers. If this sound interesting could I give some list with canon downsides.

 

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On 7/24/2022 at 4:05 PM, Codex Grey said:

 

On 7/10/2022 at 4:29 AM, USAFGrimRaptor said:

I was thinking of painting them the Dusk Raiders colors and use those symbols.

In-universe, people might raise an eyebrow to this. Maybe do some slight modifications to the symbol and call it a coincidence that it is so close to the Dusk Raiders?

I don't think there would be any problem, the Dusk Raiders colours and symbol is something that was forsaken when they become the Death Guard, and that was before the Horus Heresy, even if a few know that the DG were ones the Dusk Raiders is it likley that even few among them know of the Raiders colours or symbol. And we have canon chapter that have colours similar to traitor Legions or using symbols similar to their old ones. 

 

On 7/24/2022 at 4:05 PM, Codex Grey said:

 

On 7/10/2022 at 4:29 AM, USAFGrimRaptor said:

Ranks:

Chapter Master: Crypt Keeper

Captain: Revenant

Lieutenant: Spectre

Chaplain: Banshee

Librarian: Lich

Apothecary: Reanimator

Sergeants: Wraiths

Some of these are okay, but mostly a bit on the nose, imo. And I don't really see why they would re-brand their ranks this way even though you like it, you know what I mean?

I don't see any problem with the fully rebranding. Likley each of the different chapters they ones was made up of had their own nomenclature so they did need to do that in eaither cause, another reason could be (or combined with the former) is that they feelt a need to rebrand themselves now when they have been reborn not as a aliance of broken chapters but as a new united chapter.

 

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On 8/4/2022 at 9:07 AM, USAFGrimRaptor said:

I accept your criticism but I obviously don't know how to do lore. So if you guys want to offer more changes please do. 

Don't discurage. And remember this is your lore, we are only comming with suggestions that you don't need to follow if you don't want to.

 

--------------------------------

 

On 8/4/2022 at 10:18 AM, Codex Grey said:

To be clear, my issue was primarily with the combination of having mutated chimera geneseed AND Primaris upgrades, as I don't personally see them being allowed get the Primaris upgrade if their geneseed has gone all wonky.

Based on the short story about how the Blood Ravens got their primaris tech so is it likly that many chapters don't really get any more than a Custodes ship appearing, making clear that they are still loyal to the Emperor, followed by handing over STC:s of the technology and maybe some tech-priests to help out in the begining. I can easily see a Custodes ship appearing, identifying one of the Phantoms' ships as belonging to the Chapter they were suposed to hand over primaris tech to, demands to know if the Phantoms are survivors of that chapter, gets a yes-ish answer, folowed by them handing over the tech and then jumping on to try to find the next chapter on their list.

 

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On 8/4/2022 at 3:48 PM, USAFGrimRaptor said:

So with the traitor geneseed only known to cawl would they qualify as an unknown founding?

 

My main concept is to be able to use any ones tactics and relics in game instead of focusing on one chapter origin.

The idea of a bunch of survivors working together sounded like it would work.

But I'm leaning more towards loyalist "traitor" geneseed. 

I say keep to chimeric gene-seed, it fits with your concept of survivors of different lines that have banded togheter. 

Having them as of traitor gene-seed would not fit with what you have already written.

Personally I think traitor gene-seed is one of those things that can be fun to hint at in the lore but should never be stated as something known or suspected IU (since that would be something unthinkable). And even if a chapter is of traitor gene-seed don't mean that they need to be similar to "daddy", just like the Ultramarines have successors like the Mortifactors and the Steel Serpents. The former who are fully a codex chapter and followers the same military organisation as the Um but culturally are caniballistic night worlders, with lots of morbide traditions and rituals, while the later don't follow the Codex at all and have thier own ritualistic ways based on snakes and water. Some of the traitor Legions had things that made them stand out - some Night Lords suffering from sudden visions of the future, the World Eaters berserk problem, the Thousand Sons high amount of psyker and flesh-change problem - but most of them would not really stand out from their cusins notably if their gene-seed was used for a fully new chapter.

 

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@USAFGrimRaptor based on what you have written do it feel like you should have a bit of a gothic horror/undead theme with your Chapter, combined with them being based on a scavanger fleet. If you want to lean into the the gothic theme do I suggest taking a look at Age of Sigmars' Soulblight Gravelords and Nighthaunt for gothic horror bits and bling. The Unmade could also work.

The scavanger fleet feeling (to me) could be created by having the battle-brothers wearing armour and equipment that looks scavanged or often reused, the Chaos Space Marines is good for shoulderpads, and backpacks that are of older marks, and many of them are not that Chaos-y that they can't be used as normal firstborn space marines, even if there is the need for som knife/greenstuff work on some bodies/weapons to take away Chaos symbols. Giving them wepons that they should not use (Firstborn ones, and from the AdMech, IG and SoB range, maybe even xeno things - there are also blackpowder weapons from the AoS' Cities of Sigmar range), also shows that they are undersupplied. Those kitbashes don't need to have any game effect if you don't want to. White Dwarf #464 have an article about the Fallen, including how to make them, if you can do I suggest reading it for inspiration. 

Also, scavenger birds or scavenger bird bling - as can be found in the Corvus Cabal box - fit with both the gothic horror and scavanger theme, even if that don't really fit the whole void fleet theme. 

Have you read Spear of the Emperor? If not could it be of interest since it describes a Chapter stationed in Noctis Imperialis that is barly holding on and have to disregard many of the rules of the Codex and make do with what they have. Even if they have a homeworld.

 

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