[3k] Iron Hands Fury of the Ancients - New list!

[oldhat]

HQ:
Venerable Ancient Contemptor Dreadnought
Melta Cannon, 1x Fist w/ Combi
From Hel’s Heart WLT
[210]

Troops:
(3) Contemptor Dreadnought Talon
2x Volkite Dual-culverin, HTA
[645]

(3) Contemptor Dreadnought Talon (LINE)
1x Gravis Lascannon, 1x Fist w/ Combi
[585]

(3) Contemptor Dreadnought Talon (LINE)
1x Meltacannons, 1x Fist w/ Combi
[540]

Heavy:
Leviathan
Storm Cannon, Claw, Phosphex
[300]

Leviathan
Storm Cannon, Claw, Phosphex
[300]

(2) Deredeo Dreadnought
AACs, Aiolos
[420]

[3000]

Simple, spammy and straight-forward. After looking at the cost of using Drop Pods for the Leviathans, I figured they could hoof it. Storm Cannons with Rending and Sunder just seem solid. Being T8 with the Legion perks - reducing incoming fire strength by 1 - they should make it to eventually engage in CC and toss phosphex around. The dual Volkites with HTAs are there for volume of fire, including via skyfire to help against flyers, and the interceptor reaction perk is just gravy - though, I am torn here as Kheres seem potentially good too with Rending and volume of shots. I figured since they are least capable of fighting in CC, they'd be a liability so they aren't one of the Line troop choices. The Las/Fist ones shoot armor at long range, while the MC/Fist ones cover the mid- and close-range. I figure they can overlap to cover one another making it very bad to get in closer to them as a vehicle. Once you are in close they can start beating down with the Fists. The Deredeo have some nasty weapons and add ranged fire support and pinning.

With 72 T7 and 14 T8 wounds on the table with the Legion perks, it just seems durable enough to work. Not sure the list is optimized enough for competitive play, but I think it would do fine to not get steamrolled while still not being so insurmountable as to make pick-up games too miserable.

Thoughts? Ideas? Did I miss anything obvious rules wise?

Edited July 19, 2022 by oldhat
Updated list

[oldhat]

Any thoughts? 

 

I've considered dropping a Levi for a Deredeo or two maybe with some tweaks.  

Edited July 17, 2022 by oldhat

[Chronotonic]

if they have enough anti-tank you are on the backend...but everyone just started up so most of the squads are built for the random rhinos...

 

if you play this I would heavily hint on how to stop it...and just run it for fun at best...

[oldhat]

Updated to Iron Hands, took out a Leviathan - squeezed in some Deredeo for variety/firepower.

I would love some feedback on the list as a whole and also on the potential optimal Contemptor loadouts. I think gun/fist is good, so you always have the CC weapon - it is the guns that have me overthinking.

Volkite vs Kheres? Are Melta Cannons even worth it?

[xxxjtmxxx]

First this row is nasty as hell. when u want to play with your friends think about it.  when u want competetive, than go.

i would split the talons that you have more units in generell. than 2 or 3 with double shooting could be good. Double lasca or double gravis melter for anti tank should work well. 

then maybe 2 with only ccw, to go straight to objektives. melter or grav inbuilt.

i would play 1 Levi with melter array.

total of 9 contemptor, 2 Levi and 1 deredeo and Rest in special troops. maybe techpriests. maybe something to pinn troops like sicaran punisher. than you have a solid roundet list i think.

and dont forget the iwnd upgrade for everyone. 

[oldhat]

9 minutes ago, xxxjtmxxx said:

First this row is nasty as hell. when u want to play with your friends think about it.  when u want competetive, than go.

i would split the talons that you have more units in generell. than 2 or 3 with double shooting could be good. Double lasca or double gravis melter for anti tank should work well. 

then maybe 2 with only ccw, to go straight to objektives. melter or grav inbuilt.

i would play 1 Levi with melter array.

total of 9 contemptor, 2 Levi and 1 deredeo and Rest in special troops. maybe techpriests. maybe something to pinn troops like sicaran punisher. than you have a solid roundet list i think.

and dont forget the iwnd upgrade for everyone. 

IWND only goes on Vehicles, sadly. Also, Talons split after deployment - they operate as three separate Dreads. Unless you mean splitting the units into mixed weapons profiles to maximize coverage on deployment?

The only perk I can see to dual CCWs is an extra attack at the loss of firepower and then on the dual ranged ones they just lose the fist CCW profile on their attacks, meaning they can't fight back in CC as well. Is that one extra attack worth the loss of flexibility across the army? I could get two smaller weapons give it some ranged shooting but the price is steep for Melta and Grav and both seem underwhelming.

Not trying to branch out from Dreads - really seeking the optimal options with the theme. I do have the Aiolos for pinning. Not sure how reliable that will wind up being. I did at one point consider using the Stoic Defender WLT to make my Warlords shooting pinning, but struggled to find a weapon that was optimal for that and I ran into cost issues. Kheres seemed good but I just couldn't find the points unless I stripped out a Lascannon maybe, which I am hesitant to do as I only have three for long-range anti-tank.

[GodEmperorOfMankind]

34 minutes ago, oldhat said:

IWND only goes on Vehicles, sadly. Also, Talons split after deployment - they operate as three separate Dreads. Unless you mean splitting the units into mixed weapons profiles to maximize coverage on deployment?

The only perk I can see to dual CCWs is an extra attack at the loss of firepower and then on the dual ranged ones they just lose the fist CCW profile on their attacks, meaning they can't fight back in CC as well. Is that one extra attack worth the loss of flexibility across the army? I could get two smaller weapons give it some ranged shooting but the price is steep for Melta and Grav and both seem underwhelming.

Not trying to branch out from Dreads - really seeking the optimal options with the theme. I do have the Aiolos for pinning. Not sure how reliable that will wind up being. I did at one point consider using the Stoic Defender WLT to make my Warlords shooting pinning, but struggled to find a weapon that was optimal for that and I ran into cost issues. Kheres seemed good but I just couldn't find the points unless I stripped out a Lascannon maybe, which I am hesitant to do as I only have three for long-range anti-tank.

With regards to dual ccw. If you have only 1,whats it gonna be, pfist or chain fist? Chain fist wrecks armour, but the PFist has brutal 3, which means it'll smash those heavy infantry better 

If you have both, you can maximise the carnage whatever you're charging. 

[oldhat]

59 minutes ago, Altis said:

With regards to dual ccw. If you have only 1,whats it gonna be, pfist or chain fist? Chain fist wrecks armour, but the PFist has brutal 3, which means it'll smash those heavy infantry better 

If you have both, you can maximise the carnage whatever you're charging. 

I have pretty much only Fists right now. I feel like with all the melta, las, and S9 CC attacks, that can put a hurt on armor. I'd love Chainfists though. Murderous Strike 5+ and Armorbane are just nuts. They really would mulch just about anything. Might be something to tinker with once I get some games in to see if it is a problem that needs addressing. I could in theory put one per Talon over to Fist/Chainfist w/ Dual Melta for the express purpose of having that option.

[Heresy.EXE]

this list is the reason I never want to participate in a HH tourney :D

[xxxjtmxxx]

10 hours ago, oldhat said:

IWND only goes on Vehicles, sadly. Also, Talons split after deployment - they operate as three separate Dreads. Unless you mean splitting the units into mixed weapons profiles to maximize coverage on deployment?

The only perk I can see to dual CCWs is an extra attack at the loss of firepower and then on the dual ranged ones they just lose the fist CCW profile on their attacks, meaning they can't fight back in CC as well. Is that one extra attack worth the loss of flexibility across the army? I could get two smaller weapons give it some ranged shooting but the price is steep for Melta and Grav and both seem underwhelming.

Not trying to branch out from Dreads - really seeking the optimal options with the theme. I do have the Aiolos for pinning. Not sure how reliable that will wind up being. I did at one point consider using the Stoic Defender WLT to make my Warlords shooting pinning, but struggled to find a weapon that was optimal for that and I ran into cost issues. Kheres seemed good but I just couldn't find the points unless I stripped out a Lascannon maybe, which I am hesitant to do as I only have three for long-range anti-tank.

dont know the rule for splitting after deployment, thanks. and itwd was my fault, sorry. 

yeah than it is good to max out both line troops to get 6 line contemptor. 

but realy i do like double lasca contemptor over lasca with fist. u have so much offensive Potential, u dont need 11 or more contemptor with fists.

 

[GodEmperorOfMankind]

14 hours ago, oldhat said:

I have pretty much only Fists right now. I feel like with all the melta, las, and S9 CC attacks, that can put a hurt on armor. I'd love Chainfists though. Murderous Strike 5+ and Armorbane are just nuts. They really would mulch just about anything. Might be something to tinker with once I get some games in to see if it is a problem that needs addressing. I could in theory put one per Talon over to Fist/Chainfist w/ Dual Melta for the express purpose of having that option.

Chain fists are easy to kitbash if you wanted, take your contemptor fist, minus fingers, grab some of those spare chain bayonets from the mkvi tacs, and replace! 

 

[GodEmperorOfMankind]

Str14 with armourbane just destroys armour

[oldhat]

3 hours ago, Altis said:

Str14 with armourbane just destroys armour

Yeah, I wish I could more easily find the points in this current iteration, but unless I drop down to single Volkites, I don't really have the wiggle room for them. Which may wind up being the route I go depending on how the double Volkite dreads do overall. It may be that they are underwhelming and I swap them over to Kheres/CCW, giving me some mid-ranged rending firepower and more CC ability, or maybe even single Lascannons depending on how the meta shifts. But because Volkite are the coolest looking guns, I am loathe to swap them until they disappoint me.

EDIT:
You got me thinking!

Here is an alternate list with potentially more strategic flexibility and options, even if it has no choom which makes me very sad!

HQ:
Venerable Ancient Contemptor Dreadnought
Melta Cannon & Chainfist w/ Combi (or Kheres w/ Stoic Defender)
From Hel’s Heart WLT
[220]

Troops:
Contemptor Dreadnought Talon
Twin Lascannon, HTA
[225]

(3) Contemptor Dreadnought Talon (LINE)
1x Melta Cannon, Chainfiist w/ Combi
1x Kheres & Fist w/ Combi
1x Lascannon & Fist w/ Combi
[575]

(3) Contemptor Dreadnought Talon (LINE)
1x Melta Cannon, Chainfiist w/ Combi
1x Kheres & Fist w/ Combi
1x Lascannon & Fist w/ Combi
[575]

(2) Contemptor Dreadnought Talon
1x Melta Cannon & Chainfiist w/ Combi
1x Lascannon & Fist w/ Combi
[385]

Heavy:
Leviathan
Storm Cannon, Claw, Phosphex
[300]

Leviathan
Storm Cannon, Claw, Phosphex
[300]

(2) Deredeo Dreadnought
AACs, Aiolos
[420]

Big changes on this list. The solo double Las likely gets placed nearly last, with hopes of good LoS to a tank that must die. Since Talons can split off once deployed, this means I have basically tiny support teams - MC & Fist for close-range anti-tank supporting long-range anti-tank and mid- to short-range anti-infantry. I can basically hot swap MC/CF for Kheres, too, since the points equal out. So if I run into needing more anti-infantry firepower, I could do that. This list has Chainfists! Just no Volkite which again, very sad. I think Kheres seems overall better than the Volkite option, but those are also an arm swap as the points are the same there too. I am going to need SO MANY magnets.

Edited July 19, 2022 by oldhat

[GodEmperorOfMankind]

Great list! 

Honestly I have no gaming feedback to give as I haven't played enough, but I wanna know how it turns out. 

Have you got the minis or are you waiting on the plastics releases to get going? When do you think you'll get to play? 

I'm also now doing my own dread list now thanks mate! 

Imperial fists and boxnaughts! 

Have you thought of sticking a levi in a pod? 

[oldhat]

58 minutes ago, Altis said:

Great list! 

Honestly I have no gaming feedback to give as I haven't played enough, but I wanna know how it turns out. 

Have you got the minis or are you waiting on the plastics releases to get going? When do you think you'll get to play? 

I'm also now doing my own dread list now thanks mate! 

Imperial fists and boxnaughts! 

Have you thought of sticking a levi in a pod? 

Still in the purchasing phase. I am waiting for the weapon packs from GW for the Contemptors so I can just buy a bunch of those and have all the options all at once. No idea when those are due out. One thing I am doing in the meantime is doing some junk casts of dead Legionnaires to pile at the bases of my Dreadnoughts for their display board. Despite this being a potentially nasty list, at my core I am a huge fan of the lore and the hobby. Very excited to paint up this army - black, silver, red accents! Going to look sharp!

I contemplated Pods, but with the changes to them, I just felt like it wasn't worth it. Coming in on T2 (maybe) and not being able to charge until T3 (if you land in the right spot) just didn't seem worthwhile.

I had thought about Boxnaughts, but wanted the even T7+ across the board. Renders S4 and S5 weapons ineffective and that is a nice perk (as Iron Hands).

[Brother Dallo]

I guess just to reiterate what has been said above.

This looks like it has the potential to be incredibly unfun to play against if you’re not prepared for it. A relatively balanced list will likely struggle to interact with this list in a meaningful way with a lot of their units.  For instance a couple of big 20 man Tactical squads will struggle to kill even a single Dreadnought.

I’ll admit that this is all theoretical as I haven’t played HH2 yet and only had a handful of HH1 games, but I thought it was worth flagging and you can decide what to do with the opinion (if anything).

I guess it depends what you’re aiming for here. If you’re looking purely to win games, then I think it will do well. If you’re looking a casual list to have a roughly 50:50 win rate, I suspect it’s not that.

 

I’d be interested to get the feedback if you do get some games in with this. 
 

Dallo

[oldhat]

27 minutes ago, Brother Dallo said:

I guess just to reiterate what has been said above.

This looks like it has the potential to be incredibly unfun to play against if you’re not prepared for it. A relatively balanced list will likely struggle to interact with this list in a meaningful way with a lot of their units.  For instance a couple of big 20 man Tactical squads will struggle to kill even a single Dreadnought.

I’ll admit that this is all theoretical as I haven’t played HH2 yet and only had a handful of HH1 games, but I thought it was worth flagging and you can decide what to do with the opinion (if anything).

I guess it depends what you’re aiming for here. If you’re looking purely to win games, then I think it will do well. If you’re looking a casual list to have a roughly 50:50 win rate, I suspect it’s not that.

 

I’d be interested to get the feedback if you do get some games in with this. 
 

Dallo

To be wholly honest, the main root was that many many years ago I wanted to do an all-Dread army but they were just not really viable. As pricey as this army is, I wasn't going to invest in it if I was going to be steamrolled. Now, it is looking like this is totally viable and I get the fun of painting a super cool army as well as playing it without worrying about getting too thoroughly beat. I know it has potential to be unfun for some lists, but outside of folks running just Tactical spam, it shouldn't be too awful. This list is for games that are more about winning than the narrative format. For narrative games, I will swap arms out to more "fun" configurations. Especially since I can then paint up more neat stuff like Conversion Beamers and Plasma Cannons, etc.

As a rule, I won't play an unpainted army, so it may be a while before I have this list ready to go, but when I do I will post pics and lore in the hobby section along with any BatReps.

[Brother Dallo]

Sounds like you’re coming at this from the right place then.

Fire away with your themed, all conquering Robot army. 

Dallo

[TheTrans]

This list looks heinous mate in all honesty, slotting it over to Iron Hands and now trying to wring every iota of effectiveness out of it doesn't bode well for your mates in all honesty.

I honesty don't think any 'normal' army, even if competetively built could deal well with such a skew list, that and the fact Contemptors are either a fair whack under costed, or a bit too resilent doesn't help. 

If they where all box-naughts, then I could certianly get more around it, but as it stands, I wouldn't be happy copping that at an event or as a freindly pick up.

But each to their own mate! We all enjoy different things! 

[Marshal Mittens]

Looks very strong, but probably not very fun to play against, if you want my honest opinion. I think most armies will lack a meaningful way of dealing with this list at 3k points, and will probably not want to play against it more than once. 

Once knights come out, I could see it being more fun to play against knight households. 

[GodEmperorOfMankind]

As long as he gives fair warning at pickup games. 

I would be all for it, I'd want to see if I could beat it with a "regular" army. 

And then when I don't, I'd want to beat it with my own dreadnought list. 

Tourney, people will be bringing their A game I assume, so alls fair. It's not like he's come up with a sneaky way of fielding them, it's a specific RoW , and if it turns out it's all stomping, everyone will run them and RoW will get banned or nerfed etc 

[GodEmperorOfMankind]

I played an all dread list with my csm back in 7th. There was a formation you could take that ran 5 helbrutes. I picked that and a warpsmith and a decimator (can't remember how I got it legal, but it was) in a ZM game. Absolutely stomped my mate who was playing guard. 

Was fun for a 1 off, but it's not something I would regularly take. And if I did my mate would respond in kind

[oldhat]

Trying to find more fun alternatives to the main list:

HQ:
Venerable Ancient Contemptor Dreadnought
Twin Conversion Beamers, Havoc
Stoic Defender WLT
[255]

Troops:
Contemptor Dreadnought Talon
Chainfist & Fist w/ Meltaguns
Drop Pod
[315]

(3) Contemptor Dreadnought Talon (LINE)
1x Melta Cannon, Chainfiist w/ Combi
1x Dual Volkite w/ HTA
1x Lascannon & Fist w/ Combi
[600]

(3) Contemptor Dreadnought Talon (LINE)
1x Melta Cannon, Chainfiist w/ Combi
1x Dual Volkite w/ HTA
1x Lascannon & Fist w/ Combi
[600]

Heavy:
Leviathan
Drill & Claw, Phosphex, Dual Volkite
Drop Pod
[405]

Leviathan
CML, Drill, Phosphex
Drop Pod
[405]

(2) Deredeo Dreadnought
AACs, Aiolos
[420]

[3000]

 

Beamers and Volkite are some of my favorite weapons to paint, so squeezed those in. Got Pods, which are not so reliable anymore, but also lets me have some fun shenanigans. Tempted to swap the Las over to Beamers as well, but that is getting pricey unless they wind up cheap bits from the new box set of arm options due out eventually.

Thoughts? Does this look more fun than the slog list?

[Lord Krungharr]

I love Fury of the Ancients!  Mine is IW and has only 3 Contemptors, and 5 box-noughts, (plus Dreadclaw and Kharybdis and a Forgelord) but can't wait to run it.  I think the Hands will do it better though.  Sounds like the Deredeo is a great option, forgot about those.

[oldhat]

2 hours ago, Lord Krungharr said:

I love Fury of the Ancients!  Mine is IW and has only 3 Contemptors, and 5 box-noughts, (plus Dreadclaw and Kharybdis and a Forgelord) but can't wait to run it.  I think the Hands will do it better though.  Sounds like the Deredeo is a great option, forgot about those.

I really thought about Box dreads but just think they look too out of place next to all the supple, round Heresy dreads.

IW Fury list will look so dope! All those hazard stripes / chevrons and the right glow effects will be real sick. And the metallic base makes for such fun weathering.