What if gravis ignored PF debuff?

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

I was just thinking that it would be a unique thing for gravis to ignore the -1 to hit penalty powerfists have.

Imagine the gravis captain 2 fists 6 attacks, hitting on 2+

[Lord_Ikka]

That would make Aggressors much nastier in combat, as long as their gauntlets counted as powerfists.

[CCE1981]

I would prefer if the Boltstorm Gauntlets for the Captain and Aggressor Squad were combined.  Make it an assault 3 weapon, that can be fired as a pistol against a unit within melee.

Edited July 31, 2022 by CCE1981

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

14 minutes ago, Lord_Ikka said:

That would make Aggressors much nastier in combat, as long as their gauntlets counted as powerfists.

Yeah I feel like that would be a given lol.

 

a gravis captain stomping up the field with aggressors would be a beat stick combined unit.

Edited July 31, 2022 by Inquisitor_Lensoven

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

14 minutes ago, CCE1981 said:

I would prefer if the Boltstorm Gauntlets for the Captain and Aggressor Squad were combined.  Make it an assault 3 weapon, that can be fired as a pistol against a unit within melee.

I think they would probably just make them all pistol3 at that point.

[CCE1981]

The problem with making the boltstorm gauntlets pistol is that you can’t shoot them if you Advance.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

20 minutes ago, CCE1981 said:

The problem with making the boltstorm gauntlets pistol is that you can’t shoot them if you Advance.

You’re just not going get the rules for both assault and pistol weapons 

 

 

[CCE1981]

Didn’t think we would get the rules for vehicles to shoot into melee.  I would still like to see it.  It would mean they aren’t getting bogged down in combat.  Removing -1 to hot is easy enough to get around with Chaplain or Chapter Master re-rolls anyway.  I really don’t think that removing it is going to really do too much.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I’d rather see terminators ignore unwieldy. Aggressors it just seems like a wasted opportunity to me.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

6 hours ago, CCE1981 said:

Didn’t think we would get the rules for vehicles to shoot into melee.  I would still like to see it.  It would mean they aren’t getting bogged down in combat.  Removing -1 to hot is easy enough to get around with Chaplain or Chapter Master re-rolls anyway.  I really don’t think that removing it is going to really do too much.

Hitting on a 3+ is quite a bit better than 4+

And a 2+ for the captain is awesome

[phandaal]

4 hours ago, Black Blow Fly said:

I’d rather see terminators ignore unwieldy. Aggressors it just seems like a wasted opportunity to me.

Same for Heavy weapons.

[Blindhamster]

4 hours ago, Black Blow Fly said:

I’d rather see terminators ignore unwieldy. Aggressors it just seems like a wasted opportunity to me.

or it would be a way to further differentiate the two armour types.

[UnkyHamHam]

If Aggressors could ignore the -1 to hit, it could at least represent an advance in tech for the Primaris and all that. Plus, Terminators already have Fury of the First. 

Also, Aggressors should be able to take frag Launchers with boltstorms and flamers.  Dumb how the frags are locked to the bolters. 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

1 hour ago, UnkyHamHam said:

If Aggressors could ignore the -1 to hit, it could at least represent an advance in tech for the Primaris and all that. Plus, Terminators already have Fury of the First. 

Also, Aggressors should be able to take frag Launchers with boltstorms and flamers.  Dumb how the frags are locked to the bolters. 

First part is what I was thinking.

I think it’s to balance the two options a bit.

flame and frag gets up to a possible 18 shots I think. 
flame only 12

bolt and frag likewise max 12 shots.

bolt and frag you’re guaranteed 7 shots,  but I think your average with flamestorm is higher.

[UnkyHamHam]

6 minutes ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

First part is what I was thinking.

I think it’s to balance the two options a bit.

flame and frag gets up to a possible 18 shots I think. 
flame only 12

bolt and frag likewise max 12 shots.

bolt and frag you’re guaranteed 7 shots,  but I think your average with flamestorm is higher.

Just need to pay a few extra points for it then. Balance is only needed if they are going to be equal cost. Cheaper and weaker vs pricey and powerful has always been a thing. It's ok to to have options. 

[Toldavf]

The -1 to hit balances the hitting power of power fists. Nothing broken there, nothing to fix. 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

1 hour ago, Toldavf said:

The -1 to hit balances the hitting power of power fists. Nothing broken there, nothing to fix. 

No one said anything was broken.

 

[Karhedron]

9 hours ago, Toldavf said:

The -1 to hit balances the hitting power of power fists. Nothing broken there, nothing to fix. 

It is not that power fists are broken, it is Aggressors that are suffering. A Special rule to ignore the penalty for Fists (or simply make it so boltstorm/flamestorm gauntlets do not have that rule) would be a good way to improve them.

[Toldavf]

At the end of the day they are a hybrid unit and will pay a premium for it. Marines are an army with so much choice that they can pick a unit for a key task If one of you elite slots is underperforming well it's not like you have centurions or terminators that do the same job, tough, some str 4 shooting and high strength melee. If aggressors are just shunted into being the BIS out of the 3 where does that leave the other 2 units? On this forum asking for a buff they don't honestly need.  

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

9 hours ago, Toldavf said:

At the end of the day they are a hybrid unit and will pay a premium for it. Marines are an army with so much choice that they can pick a unit for a key task If one of you elite slots is underperforming well it's not like you have centurions or terminators that do the same job, tough, some str 4 shooting and high strength melee. If aggressors are just shunted into being the BIS out of the 3 where does that leave the other 2 units? On this forum asking for a buff they don't honestly need.  

So many people here saying that aggressors are underwhelming, and no one takes them for competitive lists, and heck I don’t even see people putting them into their casual friendly lists, so clearly they need a buff of some sort. Especially since everyone has been crying about them losing the ability to shoot twice.

[Toldavf]

I've seen them in lists for casual. If they get any adustment it's more likely to be a points charge rather than a rules change. Imagine them In wolves with the proposed buff Power fists that hit on 2+ yaaaay...

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Seriously any unit will be better with +1 to hit lol !

[Blindhamster]

Honestly just think they need to regain their move, run and shoot without penalties rule. I’d be happy with that lol

[Dracos]

On 8/2/2022 at 3:37 PM, Toldavf said:

I've seen them in lists for casual. If they get any adustment it's more likely to be a points charge rather than a rules change. Imagine them In wolves with the proposed buff Power fists that hit on 2+ yaaaay...

Personal experiences swing wildly, tournament data on the other hand is fair for analysis of a units competitiveness within its own codex. Terminators are taken over Aggressors significantly. point for point cmpetitive players prefer Terminators. Aggressors could use a buff but honestly the whole Codex is a mess that needs that fat trimmed - which would set off a crap storm - or imo seperate the Firstborn and Primaris units with a rule that allows a mixture akin to the Eldar mixing Dark, Craft and ... that new one I'm too old to look up right now :)

[Beta galactosidase]

Craftworlds as Asuryani is easy to remember because of the IRL god Ashur from Assyria and the eldar’s father god Asuryan.

it’s not pleasant to remember because of the way it sounds like Yoni Egg, which is awful.

but there is no new Eldar codex beyond the usual dark and craftworlder ones.

 

luckily while GW had been doing a few exception-to-an-exception rules recently, I don’t think they or any house rulers are going to go for this one.