Do gal vorbak have eternal warrior?

[Misterduch]

Played 2 games against a WB player who was using Gal vorbak at 1000pt. He said they have instant death immunity ( from eternal warrior ) and I bought it without asking to check his liber, but after getting troughoutly rofl stomped I checked the pre release imgur leaks and I can't find anything about it. If anything it even says that Force or Psychic Focus weapons gain Instant death against Corrupted units ( such as gal vorbak )

Can anyone more familiar the the traitors liber confirm or deny their immunity? ATM I am under the assumption he got eternal warrior and chosen warriors mixed up?

( He was running a preator with them if that matters )

 

EDIT:

Upon reading further I have the feeling the guy mixed up ALOT of rules.

For starters Gal vorbak don't have a 5+ without Argel Tal as a warlord, and the only instant death immunity I can find in the word bearers imgur section is Dark fire on their special dread, but even then it still deals D3 wounds...so yeah. 

My champion and Terminators with L.Claws would have done pretty well into them, and my the math for my firedrakes with the +1S/Hatred warlord trait or a BIomancer went from "this sucks" to "Oh, he is boned"

Edited August 5, 2022 by Misterduch

[SkimaskMohawk]

Gal Vorbak certainly don't have eternal warrior, though their toughness 5 makes them immune to a lot of common sources of instant death, and their built in 5+ feel no pain basically replicates the invulnerable save stuff that doesn't inflict instant death.

Note that the rules say that multipliers come before +X to characteristics, so the firedrakes would only be at STR 9 with either the warlord trait or biomancy. You'd need the murderous strike from the champions Paragon blade to cut through the feel no pain and instant kill them.

[Misterduch]

9 hours ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

Gal Vorbak certainly don't have eternal warrior, though their toughness 5 makes them immune to a lot of common sources of instant death, and their built in 5+ feel no pain basically replicates the invulnerable save stuff that doesn't inflict instant death.

Note that the rules say that multipliers come before +X to characteristics, so the firedrakes would only be at STR 9 with either the warlord trait or biomancy. You'd need the murderous strike from the champions Paragon blade to cut through the feel no pain and instant kill them.

Oh but see, he was rolling both the 5++ and 5+++ for each wound that got trough while also stating to have complete immunity to instant death.

It honestly made me question theb sanity of the rules writers for making a unit like that cost 275 points for 5 models with 3W

 

Regarding the strenght

Yeah that's what I tought. I remember that sequence order from 40k but I couldn't find it yesterday in the book and went on with the assumption that the multiplication of the weapon came after the characteristic bonus.

I can still get S10 on them, just with more investment and at that point a 10 man squad, with a spartan, Primus medicea in cataphractii, Biomancer and a warlord trait gets hella expensive . At that point it may also be better to just have the biomancer there to give extra toughness as a priority ( he does both but the goal is different ) and punch with his own force sword for instadeath while the drakes tank damage

[SkimaskMohawk]

Oh ya, stacking both 5++ and calling total immunity is beyond what you should usually have to deal with lol.

Even without confusing all the rules, gal Vorbak are definitely quite tanky and can grind down a surprising amount of units, so watch out for a squad with more support given to it. Though if he has invested in a big ol' death star, remember that any force or psychic focus weapon inflicts instant death on corrupted units.

Edited August 6, 2022 by SkimaskMohawk

[Misterduch]

3 hours ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

Oh ya, stacking both 5++ and calling total immunity is beyond what you should usually have to deal with lol.

Even without confusing all the rules, gal Vorbak are definitely quite tanky and can grind down a surprising amount of units, so watch out for a squad with more support given to it. Though if he has invested in a big ol' death star, remember that any force or psychic focus weapon inflicts instant death on corrupted units.

I talked with him today and apperently he meant to say they were immune to S8/9 Instant death while he was using the telekinetic dicplipine for a 5++

( should be 4++ but he shouldn't be able to move with the character so that is another can of worms )

without the native 5++ and eternal warrior they are atleast manageable to deal with at 275 points

Unlike Sekhmet terminators he plays with his second army as atm, RAW, they can just stack buff after buff to the point they have S8 power axes  pr Toughness 7......

 

Trust me, such a terminator squad moving upwards of 20" without advancing is something to behold.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Fair enough, and good to know it was just poorly communicated on how the stuff was getting applied, rather than massively getting the rules wrong.

Haven't looked at the thousand rules too much, but that does sound terrifying lol.

[Misterduch]

20 hours ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

Fair enough, and good to know it was just poorly communicated on how the stuff was getting applied, rather than massively getting the rules wrong.

Haven't looked at the thousand rules too much, but that does sound terrifying lol.

Take 10 sekhmet, upgrade them for 25pt irrc to be psykers.

Take a chaplain, upgrade him to psyker for extra 15.

Take a apothecary/Primus medicae, upgrade him for extra 15

Take a centurion for 60, upgrade...

and so on.

Each psyker can cast biomancy buffs instead of shooting ( +1S and T ). Warlord trait allows the unit to roll extra dice for checks for the warlords unit and discord the highest.

In the movement phase you can cast the cult power to get +3" move.

You can shoot your unit across. Charge something ( +2 bonus ). Your centurions fight at I5 with S10, Rending 4+ weapons ( for more points you could have them with thunderhammers or something to hit at higher S ).

That alone can wipe elite units, but after your guys are done punching the wall of WS5+, T7+ terminators with a 2+/4++/5+++, you can enjoy S8 or better power axes

Edited August 7, 2022 by Misterduch

[GodEmperorOfMankind]

Sounds to me like you need to find an opponent that wants to play fun narrative games, rather than one that's all out to find the cheesiest combi in order to suck all the joy out of the game

[SkimaskMohawk]

Eh, it's something I think would be FAQ'd... whenever they get around to it.

In 7th/1st, both psychic powers and special rules said that multiple instances of the same power/rule didn't stack. The psychic power limits were baked into the blessings/malediction subsections....but that part of the rules got deleted when they reworked the types of psychic powers, so the restrictions got tossed too.

The restrictions on special rule stacking is still there in 2nd. I doubt the intention is to give psychic powers an exemption, as the psychic weapons use special rules and are limited by them.

[Dont-Be-Haten]

22 hours ago, Misterduch said:

Take 10 sekhmet, upgrade them for 25pt irrc to be psykers.

Take a chaplain, upgrade him to psyker for extra 15.

Take a apothecary/Primus medicae, upgrade him for extra 15

Take a centurion for 60, upgrade...

and so on.

Each psyker can cast biomancy buffs instead of shooting ( +1S and T ). Warlord trait allows the unit to roll extra dice for checks for the warlords unit and discord the highest.

In the movement phase you can cast the cult power to get +3" move.

You can shoot your unit across. Charge something ( +2 bonus ). Your centurions fight at I5 with S10, Rending 4+ weapons ( for more points you could have them with thunderhammers or something to hit at higher S ).

That alone can wipe elite units, but after your guys are done punching the wall of WS5+, T7+ terminators with a 2+/4++/5+++, you can enjoy S8 or better power axes

RAI I don't think that's how it should be played. But unless you guys agree on throttling lists I think I would make suggestions and ask why he thinks he can do this. Obviously events will dictate how lists are made and rules are followed. I would probably just invest in snipers and lots of pinning options and hero hunt against the k sons. If a couple battle psykers with Santic powers can't eat Kha'Banda, they can eat Gal Vorbak too.

[Misterduch]

RAW it sort of works as even if special rules don't stack, the +1 S/T isn't a special rule but a straight up buff.

RAI it will almost certainly be FAQ'ed and it cannot come soon enough

 

As for I play with the guy? he is relatively new in the area and poeple don't really want to play with him as he has a rep from having played in alot of tournaments for 40k/AoS that some of my local guys attended and got curbstomped by him.

Besides, I've managed to get him to consider more fluffy casual lists already so hey...progress.

Since this thread is gone off topic I will just mark the first relevant response as the solution.

Edited August 7, 2022 by Misterduch

[Xenith]

16 hours ago, Misterduch said:

As for I play with the guy? he is relatively new in the area and poeple don't really want to play with him as he has a rep from having played in alot of tournaments for 40k/AoS that some of my local guys attended and got curbstomped by him.

Good on you for having a word with him to try and tone down the lists. I'm sure he'd rather get some games in with less crazy lists than have no games at all. The WAAC nature doesn't help with his patchy remembering of the rules...not a way to win friends and influence people. 

[Mandragola]

I think it’s reasonable for everyone to make a few mistakes with rules but this looks more like wishful thinking to me - where he’s taking the interpretation most favourable to himself and not checking. A better approach is to consider that things that seem too good to be true often are. 

It sounds like future games against this person are going to require very close rules checking. You might direct him to this forum to check his interpretations before games, rather than curbstomping people due to incorrect interpretations.