How are you finding the performance of your Kratos?

[Casual Heresy]

I played a new Ultramarines list a couple of weeks ago that involved Guilliman, a Techmarine, a Repulsor Executioner, and an all Volkite Kratos. I lost the game but the Kratos was the undisputed MVP responsible for eliminating four units including a forgefied and obliterators and holding my left flank objective all game. Even when I had to move Guilliman away to contest the centre of the field, it performed really well. 

 

Currently the Executioner is the same points as the Kratos. If that stays the same in the next points review I would consider swapping it for a 2nd Kratos, with a more anti-tank loadout, probably the melta cannon and lascannons. Feel it could be the more competitive option for the list (but really wanted to find away to make the Repulsor work in a list, which I feel it did). I love the Volkite as it can sweep away infantry but can be turned to anti tank thanks to the mortal wound potential and weight of D2 fire, its easy for it to have a duff volley if you don't roll sixes and your opponent makes the saves.

[Captain Idaho]

Yeah the additional things you've listed are the main benefits. Rerolls of 1s is 12" radius, which is essentially a whopping 24" diameter coverage. With a Master of the Forge nearby healing a tank for 3 wounds a turn and providing a 2+ to hit the killing potential of a Kratos can be considered to be suitably elevated by Guilliman. 

 

I think the counter charge part is massive here too. Guilliman is still a melee powerhouse even if he's under powered for his points cost.

[Captain Idaho]

I think sheer potential the Volkite option will scare folk. Roll plenty of 6s and your toughest targets will crumble.

 

[Karhedron]

Plus the Volkites get AP-1 in the Devastator Doctrine which will certainly help force a bit more regular damage through on Turn 1.

[Casual Heresy]

I'd be tempted to give a Techmarine babysitting a Kratos or two Storm of Fire as a Warlord trait as well. Would keep that Devestator Doctrine bonus going through the majority of the game. Of course keeping two large vehicles bunched up to benefit from a six inch aura isn't practical (hence why Guilliman is such an asset in these lists), so in my case it would be a better benefit to the Volkite one.

[Captain Idaho]

Storm of Fire is Core only unfortunately.

 

Being an Ultramarines player I can always use Martial Precision and Avenge the Fallen to benefit the Kratos as well, but these aren't necessarily always going to work.

 

Maybe multiple Techmarines is the way forward too.

[Casual Heresy]

Ignore me then. I’ve only ever used storm of fire with Dreadnoughts so forgot and assumed. 
 

In my list I’d struggle to fit a 2nd Techmarine so he’ll just have to babysit whichever one is more useful to the mission/opponent at hand. 
 

I shouldn’t buy another Kratos! This topic isn’t helping my resolve! 

[Captain Idaho]

Oh no, I should either... but I might anyway!

 

I'm liking an army with 2 of these beasts and a bunch of Dreadnoughts. That kind of hardware puts a smile on my face whilst I play with them on the tabletop. 

 

I think there might be merit to a pair of them.

Edited December 2, 2022 by Captain Idaho

[Karhedron]

Guilliman should be coming cheap in Imperium in a couple of months time. It is almost like it was meant to be. 

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Aside from the durability bonuses and first-turn Calculated Fury, the Iron Hands can run a Kratos or two decently well but it's CP-intensive especially in a Nephilim format.  There's the Target Protocols WLT, Feirros' Signum Array, Blessing of the Machine God, Mercy is Weakness, Wrathful Machine Spirit, and Engine Purge that can all add to a Kratos' lethality.  If you want to buff durability too, there's the Adept of the Omnissiah WLT, Psysteel, Reforge, the Ironstone, Fortis-pattern Data Spike, and Machine Empathy.  That being said, all of the same benefits can be applied to any other tank and I've used many of these on Land Raiders before (just one example).

 

If I had to focus on one thing as the best Medusan buff for a Kratos, I'd say either Target Protocols or Wrathful Machine Spirit.  Protocols cost you 1CP in Nephilim and can be applied for free turn after turn, and grants one each reroll for hits, wounds, and damage per phase.  Wrathful Machine Spirit carries a hefty 2CP price tag per use, but it grants full rerolls to the vehicle. . . . and the Kratos has a lot of guns.

[Karhedron]

1 hour ago, Iron Father Ferrum said:

 Wrathful Machine Spirit carries a hefty 2CP price tag per use, but it grants full rerolls to the vehicle. . . . and the Kratos has a lot of guns.

 

Ironically, WMS actually provides its best value once the profile starts to degrade. BS5+ with full rerolls is better than BS4+ and only slightly behind BS3+. This makes it one to save since it will take up all the CPs you generate in a turn.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Iron Hands double the wound count for determining bracket, so that doesn't become an issue until the tank is almost dead anyway.

[Casual Heresy]

10 hours ago, Karhedron said:

Guilliman should be coming cheap in Imperium in a couple of months time. It is almost like it was meant to be. 

You and @Captain Idaho are terrible influences and I’m here for it. 
 

I may have caved so merry Christmas to me!

 

@Iron Father Ferrum from what you’ve said the Iron Hands are probably one of the better chapters to take multiple Kratos’s with. I’d be interested to see what list you’d write for that. 

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

One Kratos is enough.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

@Casual Heresy

 

To be honest, I probably wouldn't take multiples.  Even with Iron Hand buffs, Marine tanks tend to be overpriced and the Kratos is big enough that it's already chewing into your points by itself, let alone if it brings a friend.  Plus in a Nephilim setting you just won't have the CP to buff two of them really well.

 

If I did run a pair, the only way to do it is in a Spearhead Detachment where you'll have fewer infantry to buff and plenty of other tanks to pick up any slack or run interference.  And without infantry you're losing anyway because you can't hold objectives.

[Karhedron]

10 hours ago, BLACK BLΠFLY said:

One Kratos is enough.

 

This is 40K, there is no such thing as overkill! 

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Well if you like shooting enemy units engaged with your big tanks then go ahead and knock yourself out.

[Casual Heresy]

6 hours ago, Karhedron said:

 

This is 40K, there is no such thing as overkill! 

“There is no such thing as an obscene amount of firepower.” - Antaro Chronus

 

And to address @BLACK BLŒ FLY’s point. In the case of the Ultramarine versions of a dual Kratos/tank heavy list, you’ve got Guillman sandwiched between those tanks dishing out re-rolls and counter charging anything stupid enough to get close. In my own case, the rest of my list is quite assault focussed partially to save some points, but also to protect the tanks from assault (plus deep striking hammernators as a surprise). 
 

Yes getting your big shinies blown up is a risk, but it’s the same for any list. Half the challenge (and fun of this game) is figuring out how to counter opponents, learning to cover your own list’s weaknesses, and win games fielding models you actually want to play with. 

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

You will struggle to score both primaries and secondaries but at least your big guns will get to shoot… mostly versus engaged enemy units… fun times for sure.

[Captain Idaho]

Got my first run out with my painted Krato Sunday... was delicious to use! With a Master of the Forge and other armoured threats on the board, it generally wasn't fired at and I got some good damage done with it against an enemy list that wasn't particularly well suited to it. I look forward to it nuking plenty of vehicles and monsters in the future.

[Galron]

Im actually looking at one of these for my first born marine army that I am chugging away at one or two models at a time. I have yet to paint up a Howling Griffen vehicle so I want to see how ridiculously obnoxious the end product looks like before I invest. So what are the most useful weapons? In my list I have vindicators(hoping they get a glow up like their chaos ones did in 6 months), terminators, razorbacks with ass-cannons, assault marines for objectives. Im thinking either the volkite death version or the melta version. I have never seen one on the table to even gauge their usefulness.

Edited January 24, 2023 by Galron

[Karhedron]

Personally I would be tempted to load up with as much Volkite as possible. Melta is good but there are plenty of decent melta platforms in the Marine codex (Attack Bikes, ATVs, Eradicators etc) but Volkite is rarer. At maximum loadout you can get 20 Volkite shots per turn so you should be looking at a minimum of 3MWs on top of regular damage per turn which can be a useful counter to certain targets. 

[Captain Idaho]

It's definitely a vehicle that can play to a strength. For me for example, I actually find the long ranged aspect of a vehicle more useful. Being able to put 4 lascannons and a super cannon (Kratos cannon) on a target at range is very useful for me, since the kind of targets it's firing at are generally those that provide troubles for the rest of my army.

 

Melta is a destroyer. It is there for hitting something hard and killing it. Not as utilitarian as the Kratos cannon for nuking units, particularly at range, but great for it.

 

Volkite as a full on phaser boat is a wild card. Smashing infantry and threats to lighter vehicles, but people can't discount the Mortal Wounds aspect of it.

 

@Galron I think Melta would help your list with anti-tank there, as you would really benefit from the direct killing power of one.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

What are your tactics to deal with the threat of rail guns out there such as IG, Tau and LoV ?

[Captain Idaho]

Target saturation is the key thing. Include a Kratos in an army with Vindicator Laser Destroyers and Dreadnoughts and ensure those are threatening.  That's the strategy. 

 

The tactical application of the unit would be pushing units forward to threaten objectives and opponents etc to split focus, then ensure we select the correct targets on our own turns.

Edited January 24, 2023 by Captain Idaho