HH 2.0 The Knightly Fiefdoms: Knight Household Tactica

[oldhat]

I have a Lancer, Porphyrion, Styrix, Magaera, Moirox, and like a half dozen Questoris Knights...

And four Armigers - 2/2 split. 

So yeah, I'm right there with you. I need to buy at least two more Armigers... Eventually. I'm so unexcited by this huge change.

[Dont-Be-Haten]

Good news @oldhat the new Christmas box is going to help you field more Questoris Knights! I think 2 boxes should allow you to legally bring all your toys now yeah? It was 8 that you needed right? I'll have to scroll back up.

 

Still exciting!

[oldhat]

5 hours ago, Dont-Be-Haten said:

Good news @oldhat the new Christmas box is going to help you field more Questoris Knights! I think 2 boxes should allow you to legally bring all your toys now yeah? It was 8 that you needed right? I'll have to scroll back up.

 

Still exciting!

I don't want Armigers though. That's the rub. I am not a fan of the models and they eat up 1200pt of my list meaning I can't bring my big boy Knights. I have yet to find a list I'm excited to play. I keep hoping we'll get an errata freeing up another LoW slot, so I can at least do a half and half split. It isn't like Knights look particularly OP in the new edition.

[Dont-Be-Haten]

35 minutes ago, oldhat said:

I don't want Armigers though. That's the rub. I am not a fan of the models and they eat up 1200pt of my list meaning I can't bring my big boy Knights. I have yet to find a list I'm excited to play. I keep hoping we'll get an errata freeing up another LoW slot, so I can at least do a half and half split. It isn't like Knights look particularly OP in the new edition.

Try them out. They are a lot of fun. I've had nothing but fun playing my knights, even with so many Armingers. Only thing thst sucks is Ld 7 and getting pinned.

 

One Thermal Cannon simply deletes just about any unit out there. So it makes sense for the Arminger taxes.

[The Scorpion]

What size should an allied knight list be, in your opinion? Or alternatively, a Knight list with allies.

 

Armigers are 200 points each, and you need two.

The basic Knight questoris is 380, let's say 400 after upgrades.

This means every big block of knight & bondsmen comes at around 800.

[Dont-Be-Haten]

8 hours ago, The Scorpion said:

What size should an allied knight list be, in your opinion? Or alternatively, a Knight list with allies.

 

Armigers are 200 points each, and you need two.

The basic Knight questoris is 380, let's say 400 after upgrades.

This means every big block of knight & bondsmen comes at around 800.

That's what I run! 1 knight with thermal Cannon and 2 Armingers. 1 Thermal Cannon all you need to basically delete everything in the game. I think around 800 is pretty solid.

[oldhat]

10 hours ago, The Scorpion said:

What size should an allied knight list be, in your opinion? Or alternatively, a Knight list with allies.

 

Armigers are 200 points each, and you need two.

The basic Knight questoris is 380, let's say 400 after upgrades.

This means every big block of knight & bondsmen comes at around 800.

 

You can't run a Knight army as an Allied detachment, I don't believe. The only FoC for allies is the one in the rulebook, which Knights can't conform to.

 

I think the best you can do is run a Knight as a LoW.

[Dont-Be-Haten]

6 hours ago, oldhat said:

 

You can't run a Knight army as an Allied detachment, I don't believe. The only FoC for allies is the one in the rulebook, which Knights can't conform to.

 

I think the best you can do is run a Knight as a LoW.

LVO is allowing a knight allied detachment. We allow the play of the allied detachment as well. We are also a bit more open to list building here too though. The toxicity of several people on B&C not withstanding, I think it's okay to do it. Armingers aren't really great allies anyway, it's just about the seneschal with Thermal Cannon!

[oldhat]

1 hour ago, Dont-Be-Haten said:

LVO is allowing a knight allied detachment. We allow the play of the allied detachment as well. We are also a bit more open to list building here too though. The toxicity of several people on B&C not withstanding, I think it's okay to do it. Armingers aren't really great allies anyway, it's just about the seneschal with Thermal Cannon!

Per the rulebook specifically it is not allowed. House rules and stuff are different.

[The Scorpion]

4 hours ago, oldhat said:

Per the rulebook specifically it is not allowed. House rules and stuff are different.

Well I don't know if they can be taken as allies, but they can definitively be tsken separate from the Primary Detachment.

 

"The Household Detachment may either be used as a Primary Detachment in an army using the Questoris Household Force Organisation chart, or as an Optional Detachment in an army using the Crusade Force Organisation chart."

[Dont-Be-Haten]

46 minutes ago, The Scorpion said:

Well I don't know if they can be taken as allies, but they can definitively be tsken separate from the Primary Detachment.

 

"The Household Detachment may either be used as a Primary Detachment in an army using the Questoris Household Force Organisation chart, or as an Optional Detachment in an army using the Crusade Force Organisation chart."

That's how we play it, as an optional detachment.

[The Scorpion]

I still find baffling that the Divisio Tactica explicitly forbid Knights & Titans from being or taking Mechanicum allies.

 

TF? Why did that of all things needed to be an official rule?

Edited November 10, 2022 by The Scorpion

[oldhat]

9 hours ago, The Scorpion said:

Well I don't know if they can be taken as allies, but they can definitively be tsken separate from the Primary Detachment.

 

"The Household Detachment may either be used as a Primary Detachment in an army using the Questoris Household Force Organisation chart, or as an Optional Detachment in an army using the Crusade Force Organisation chart."

 

Oh second reading of pg74 and 75... I am wrong and I guess that is good. I did not read it on first glance as it would be optional as a Household detachment, but as a LoW. So, yeah, I guess we can use them as an Optional to pop a pair of baby Knights and a big Knight into an army. Not sure how useful that will be, but its totally legal.

 

Sorry for that rules flub.

[Dont-Be-Haten]

3 hours ago, oldhat said:

 

Oh second reading of pg74 and 75... I am wrong and I guess that is good. I did not read it on first glance as it would be optional as a Household detachment, but as a LoW. So, yeah, I guess we can use them as an Optional to pop a pair of baby Knights and a big Knight into an army. Not sure how useful that will be, but its totally legal.

 

Sorry for that rules flub.

It's absolutely good!

[oldhat]

So, on another topic, I am curious as to what y'all think about the need for the Reaper on Questoris knights. The Thermal Cannon is a no brainer, since its absolutely brutal. I thought maybe adding another gun would be beneficial - the Avenger seems... fine. We lose a bit of CC oomph, but with Stomp is it a big loss vs what we would gain in shooting?

 

Thoughts?

[The Scorpion]

14 hours ago, oldhat said:

So, on another topic, I am curious as to what y'all think about the need for the Reaper on Questoris knights. The Thermal Cannon is a no brainer, since its absolutely brutal. I thought maybe adding another gun would be beneficial - the Avenger seems... fine. We lose a bit of CC oomph, but with Stomp is it a big loss vs what we would gain in shooting?

 

Thoughts?

36" S8 AP1 Heavy 1, Large Blast (5"), Armourbane looks (and is) great. But that still only hits a vehicle once and is most effective within 18" range.

 

For comparison, the pair of Armigers that you have to take to accompany each Knight could be Warglaives, and be able to hit the same vehicle at the same range, more reliably with Twin-Linked, and more times with each weapon.

 

That's not to say the Thermal Cannon is a poor choice, not at all, but it's definitively more complex than a no-brainer.

[oldhat]

34 minutes ago, The Scorpion said:

36" S8 AP1 Heavy 1, Large Blast (5"), Armourbane looks (and is) great. But that still only hits a vehicle once and is most effective within 18" range.

 

For comparison, the pair of Armigers that you have to take to accompany each Knight could be Warglaives, and be able to hit the same vehicle at the same range, more reliably with Twin-Linked, and more times with each weapon.

 

That's not to say the Thermal Cannon is a poor choice, not at all, but it's definitively more complex than a no-brainer.

Oh, I was thinking that S8 AP1 Large Blast is also good for dropping on Marines. Sarges can't tank it with a 2+ to mitigate it and it puts 2W TEQ onto their Invuln. That's solid compared to the other options. Being able to potentially one shot a vehicle at short range is nice, but I'm leaning on Warglaives to focus down vehicles.

 

The Battle Cannon now being AP4 makes it possibly the worst choice. Avenger at least has Rending 6+, but that's hard to rely on. The Las-Impulsor is a mixed bag. Powerful, but so short ranged and it's CC profile being Unwieldy is a major drawback to what would otherwise be an amazing option (shooting and CC in one). 

 

So yeah, to me the TC is the no-brainer option.

 

That being said, with the Avenger being able to rend, maybe it's worth going for a Crusader load out and relying on Stomps for CC?

 

Also, it is a real shame the Stormspear is just so pricey, as are all the carapace weapons. If the Ironstorm had Pinning maybe, but even still at that AP is not gonna get through most saves.

Edited November 11, 2022 by oldhat

[The Scorpion]

On 11/8/2022 at 6:42 PM, oldhat said:

I don't want Armigers though. That's the rub. I am not a fan of the models and they eat up 1200pt of my list meaning I can't bring my big boy Knights. I have yet to find a list I'm excited to play. I keep hoping we'll get an errata freeing up another LoW slot, so I can at least do a half and half split. It isn't like Knights look particularly OP in the new edition.

What I dislike about Armigers is the lack of options.

 

The chaos war dog has a claw and a gatling gun, and carapace missiles. 3 options for a single kit.

 

Could they not do the same for the basic Armiger, considering they were going to release Liber Mechanicum?

[Noserenda]

I vaguely remember they had double fist options for Armigers in 1st edition? Something like that to encourage kit bashing would be cool seeing as they want us to field half a dozen of them

 

[Noserenda]

Ah yeah i was curious and looked it up, i think the Dread close combat weapon was just their version of the chainsword, but they did have much more flexible loadouts...

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/HH-Questoris-Knight-Armiger-Talon.pdf
 

[The Scorpion]

Ah, they were vehicles back then.

 

Dreadnoughts and walkers have truly shaken the new edition.

[oldhat]

I caved and purchased six Armigers. I'll need to get some decals, as they're not the HH versions, but now I have no excuse not to play the army.  I just hope we get a FAQ that lets us get just one more big boy in a list easier.

 

Anyone tinkering with lists? Not a lot of variety really. I'm eyeing a 6/3 split - four? Warglaives, two? Helverins, plus an Acastus. Not sure what else to squeeze in. 

 

Magaera and an Errant? Two Errants with perks?