New rumors - updated 12-Oct

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

51 minutes ago, Emperor Ming said:

The +1 to hit is sort of a side grade as well since people were running 3 tank commanders

 

and is a nerf to tank commander sponsons and hull weapons

 

and the big problem I have here is guard need general all-round improvements, not sidegrades or nerfs. 

 

 

Did you really expect massive buffs for legacy units when a bunch of new units were coming out/back?

 

the dorn will likely be really good. Wouldn’t be surprised if it got grinding advance instead of the russes.

 

 

[mertbl]

4 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

 

2. off the top of my head i thought russes had plasma vents or something that prevented the MWs of overheating or was that just the TC?

 

The plasma vents turned a 1 into a single MW instead of removing the model. 

 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

Just watching an auspex tactics video about the dorn, and he highlighted something I had previously overlooked.

the armored tracks give +1 to Sv roles against D1 weapons.

 

not a huge thing but maybe GW has been listening to complaints about chip damage? 

[dees]

Having just skimmed the leaks and rumors my fear is the guard will be much better in ways I cannot utilize with the current army I have.  Unless the points for tanks are adequately reduced then I don't think our outcomes will improve much.  I will say the new models do look good for what it's worth.     

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

11 minutes ago, dees said:

Having just skimmed the leaks and rumors my fear is the guard will be much better in ways I cannot utilize with the current army I have.  Unless the points for tanks are adequately reduced then I don't think our outcomes will improve much.  I will say the new models do look good for what it's worth.     

I’m sure that was their goal. Optimize the codex around the new kits forcing people to buy the new kits if they want to be competitive, even casually.

[domsto]

If all the rumors around the Leman Russ/Tank Commander are correct (which is very unlikely of course) itdepends on the points. 

If the LR receives a points reduction than it is OK. 

Can't really see any reason anymore to use TC outside of maybe Orders.

As one of the key weakness of Guard currently is the low Damage output which will now be even less.

As many of you pointed out, this all fells more like a sidegrade not a buff.

 

3+d6 shots on most of the Weapons is still super swingy. They could at least made it 6+d3 so it would be more reliable, thats a Trade i could work with. Less shots overall but more reiable.

 

To be super cynical, i wouldn't be suprised if it turned out in the End that the new Dorn Tank will be a better choice over any Leman Russ

 

 

Edited October 19, 2022 by domsto

[sairence]

The rumor has been that Grinding Advance changes from double-shooting to +1 to hit for the turret weapons. So less shots, but more accuracy, which probably evens out a bit. 

 

It's nice that the Exterminator is finally getting a buff, but so far I struggle to see why I wouldn't just take a Battlecannon, which has the exact same stats but with D3 shots extra. I guess no Blast, so can shoot when engaged, but that feels kinda niche.

[OldWherewolf]

Spiky Bits has some clarity on the rumors (again... rumors...):  https://spikeybits.com/2022/10/rumors-imperial-guard-get-ignore-invul-weapons-more.html

 

Quote

Heavy Lascannon:

• Range: 48”
• Shots: 1
• S14,
• Ap-3? (unconfirmed ap),
• Damage d6+6 (Ignores invuns)

Leman Russ:

• Leman Russ Tank (AoC unknown) M10” WS6+ BS4+ S7 T8 W13 LD7 A5 2+ save
• Turret Weapons have Turret keyword (+1 to hit when firing)
• Demolisher D6 shots S9 Ap-3 Damage D3+3
• Nova Cannon: Shots d6+3 SameS Same ap damage 3 (Ignores cover)
• Executioner: Shots: Unknown S8 AP-4 Damage 3 (Always considered overcharged)
• Exterminator Autocannon: Shots: Heavy 6 S8 AP-2 Damage: 2
• Battlecannon: Shots: Heavy d6+3 S8 AP-2 Damage: 3
• Gatekeeper: Shots: Same as BC S9 AP-4 Damage: 3
• Punisher: Shots: Heavy 20 S6 Ap-1 Damage: 1
• Vanquisher: Shots: Heavy 1 S14 Ap-4 Damage D3+6 (Ignores invuns and D3 mortals on top)

Ogryns: 

• Toughness +1 (to 6),
• all Ogryns +2wounds (to 5),
• Ability: Reduce damage by 1

Command squad –

• Platoon (Elite) or Company commander (HQ) command squad units
• 2 Guardsmen make veteran heavy weapons Medic gives just the command squad a 5FnP Regimental standard – Reroll 1s to wound Any number of veterans can swap weapons in the same as before and well as
• Master Vox (Unknown what this does)
• Standard Vox (as before)
• You cannot select the same special or heavy weapon more than once in each unit.
• Refractor still has a 5+ invuln
• Veteran guardsmen have BS4+ but 2 more attacks

Kasrkin:

• Hotshot back to 24”
• Hotshot sniper 36”, Heavy 1 S4, Ap-2, Damage (MW on a roll of 6+)

Misc:

• Shocktroop Squads cost the same as Cadian (65points [p])
• Cadian squads only get 2 special weapons (no heavy weapons) in squads – 6s explode to hit (ranged)
• Catachan squads (70p) – 6s explode to hit in melee
• DCoK squads (80p) – Minitrans human
• Astropath – No longer lets you ignore cover. (Psyker divination stays as a psychic action WC7). This gets you a CP if you complete the action
• NoHQ commissars

 

Most of these seem like tweaks, which would put the codex in a 'meh'.  Guard currently aren't playing 9th, as we have 2 'free' secondaries, and still have a ~42% WR. 

 

 

 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

10 hours ago, domsto said:

If all the rumors around the Leman Russ/Tank Commander are correct (which is very unlikely of course) itdepends on the points. 

If the LR receives a points reduction than it is OK. 

Can't really see any reason anymore to use TC outside of maybe Orders.

As one of the key weakness of Guard currently is the low Damage output which will now be even less.

As many of you pointed out, this all fells more like a sidegrade not a buff.

 

3+d6 shots on most of the Weapons is still super swingy. They could at least made it 6+d3 so it would be more reliable, thats a Trade i could work with. Less shots overall but more reiable.

 

To be super cynical, i wouldn't be suprised if it turned out in the End that the new Dorn Tank will be a better choice over any Leman Russ

 

 

Minimum 4 shots/damage with turret weapons that are high S, AP, and D is not a bad minimum. D3+6 is a minimum of 7 and would just be an example of codex creep. I’m against codex creep even if it would benefit me. 
D6+3 is swingy in overall power sure but  it will give a reliably reasonable outcome every time.

10 hours ago, sairence said:

The rumor has been that Grinding Advance changes from double-shooting to +1 to hit for the turret weapons. So less shots, but more accuracy, which probably evens out a bit. 

 

It's nice that the Exterminator is finally getting a buff, but so far I struggle to see why I wouldn't just take a Battlecannon, which has the exact same stats but with D3 shots extra. I guess no Blast, so can shoot when engaged, but that feels kinda niche.

Because the exterminator looks cooler and has cooler lore, obviously.

[duz_]

Pulling in some more leaks from the NR&BA forum for those not willing to venture there 

I'm sure theres some duplicates as a result

 

  

On 10/12/2022 at 11:52 PM, EnsignJoker said:

Just saw this post on the Reddit group from a user named Blecao. Looks pretty interesting to me and most importantly, nothing seems outright busted lol. Read with the usual salt. 
 

Mordian glory video leaks

 

**Regimental Doctrines**

Mech infantry - may disembark after moving.

Parade Drill - already given on warhammer community article

Armoured superiority- Sentinels count as 3 models for objective’s. Other tanks 5. Super heavies count as 10

Blitz Division- costs halve PL when working what goes in reserve. Can deploy on turn 2 with the “turn 3” rules for setup

Bombadiers - if a Vox or sentinel can see a enemy unit and is within 12 from an artillery piece add +1 to hit

Heirloom weapons +4 inch range

Brutal Strength - moving and shooting heavy weapons no -1 hit. First turn in combat and +1 str for infantry

Grim Demonour - do negative rolls for combat attrition

Guerilla fighters - ranged attacks more. Than 18 inches away give infantry and sentinels soft cover

Elite shock troops - reroll one hit roll per unit

Industry efficiency - treat Ap1 as AP0

Swift as the wind - infantry gain +1 inch movement. All others gain +2. Also add +1 to charge rolls

Trophy hunter - attacks against monsters and vehicles get +1 str

Recon operators - Cavalry and sentinel units get a pre game move must end further than 9 inches away from the enemy.

That’s it for doctrines. HOWEVER you must give up “hammer of the emperor” which is massive!

**Regimental Orders**

In your command phase officers can issue orders 6 inch for regiment and perfectos orders. 12 inch for mechanised orders. If an officer disembarks from a transport it can issue an order as it was in the command phase.

FRFSRF - Heavy 3

Take Aim +1 to hit +1 AP

Fix Bayonets +1 to hit on Melee +1 AP

Take cover - Get light cover if already in light gain dense.

Move Move Move! +2 movement if you chose to advance auto 6 (no roll )

Suppression fire - target infantry unit only. Can only target 1 unit. If 5 or more hits are scored enemy unit subtracts 1 from hit rolls until your next shooting phase.

Tank Orders

Pound them to dust - when using blast weapons double the amount of models on the enemy unit.

Full Throttle - add 2inch movement. Count as stationary if advanced.

Gunners kill on sight - reroll 1’s To hit.

Blitz them!! - add +1 to charge rolls. If a charge is made roll a dice a 4+ inflicts D3 mortal wounds. (Dozer blades add +1 to “hit roll”

Shock and awe - Gain objective secured

Pinning fire - target infantry unit only. If 5 or more hits are made unit subtracts 2 from movement

Other Orders (possibly prefectus/commissar orders)

Forwards, for the Emperor! - When shooting,the unit counts as having Remained Stationary if it made a Normal Move or Advanced

Duty and Honour! - The unit can perform actions even if it Fell Back or Advanced, and shooting does not cause actions to fail.

Get Back in the Fight! - The unit can shoot or charge (but not both) in the same turn it Fell Back

At All Costs! - Unit pains Objective Secured (its models each count as 1 extra model if it already has this ability),

Show Them Steel, Show Them Contempt - Add 1 to the unit's Leadership, and its models can ignore mortal wounds on a 5+

Remain Vigilant - units cannot be set up within 12\*, and the unit can Hold Steady if charged (and its overwatch hits on a 5+)

**Tank Aces**

Name Unknown - SUPER-HEAVY model only. This model gains the OFFICER keyword and knows Mechanised Orders. In your Command phase, it can issue one Order, and the unit you select for that Order can be an ASTRA MILITARUM TITANIC unit.

METICULOUS CALIBRATOR – Ignores Enemy Light Cover

MECHANICAL PACK RAT- Transhuman on a tank

VETERAN COMMANDEER - Pick a bonus regimental doctrine

KNIGHT OF PIETY - This model has a 5++ invulnerable save. Ignore mortals on a 5+,

MASTER OF CAMOUFLAGE- Get light cover from ranged attacks over 12 inches away. Titanics must be 18”

STEEL COMMISSAR – Gains Commissar Orders, can order ogryn.

**Psychic Powers**

TERRIFYING VISIONS - Malediction: warp charge 6. select one enemy unit within 18" Until the start of your next Command phase Subtract 2 from the Leadership + Your opponent cannot select that unit for the Insane Bravery Stratagem and no re-roll for Morale. Also roll 2D6 and if beat the enemy Ld they fail any actions they were doing

GAZE OF THE EMPEROR - Witchfire: warp charge 6. select one enemy model within 12" of and visible. Draw a straight line between any part of that model's base and PsYKER's base. Roll one D6 for that enemy model's unit, and one D6 for each other unit that this line passes over: on a 1-5, the unit being rolled for suffers 1 mortal wound; on a 6, the unit being rolled for suffers D3 mortal wounds,

PSYCHIC BARRIER – Blessing: warp charge  6. select one friendly ASTRA MILITARUM unit within 12" of this PSYKER. models in that unit have a 5+ invulnerable save.

NIGHTSHROUD - Blessing: warp charge 6.  select one friendly ASTRA MILITARUM unit within 12" of this PsYKER. That unit gains tran:cuss:

MENTAL SHACKLES - Malediction: warp charge 6. select one enemy unit within 18" of this PsYKER. -2" from the Move + -2 from Advance and charge rolls

PSYCHIC MAELSTROM - Witchfire: warp charge 6. roll a number of D6 equal to the result of the Psychic test. for each 5+, the closest enemy within 18" + visible suffers 1 mortal wound (max 6).

**Warlord Traits.**

If your warlord is not an officer it must have front line combatant

FRONT-LINE COMBATANT - melee attack: exploding 6s and +1 to wound

MASTER TACTICIAN – 3 unit redeploy and can go in strat reserves

GRAND STRATEGIST – CP refund on a 5+ (per CP spent)

SUPERIOR TACTICAL TRAINING – Select one type of order the model doesn’t know, it now knows them. E.g. officers can do commissar orders

OLD GRUDGES – select enemy unit pregame. Units with 6 inch of warlord have +1 to wound against that unit

LEAD BY EXAMPLE - can issue Orders to its own unit, even though you cannot normally select OFFICER.

**Relics**

THE EMPEROR'S BENEDICTION – range 18 Pistol 3 S4 AP1 D2 Abilities: ignore the Look Out, Sir rule. unmodified wound roll of 6 does 1 mortal wound in addition

TACTICAL AUTO-RELIQUARY OF TYBERIUS-  issue +1 order

DEATH MASK OF OLLANIUS – bearer + their unit gets a 4++

THE BARBICANT'S KEY Grand – Dark matter crystal/viel of shadows equivalent (e.g. pick up and put down same turn)

KUROV'S AQUILA – Vect equivalent (e.g., 1 enemy strat costs 1 more CP for the game)

GATEKEEPER 72” rang.: Blast. Turret Weapon. Heavy D3+6 str 9 ap-3 D3

RELIC OF LOST Cadia-  Cadian only. Once per battle. (Aura): CADIAN INPANTRY in range get +1 WS and BS and attacks and Ld

ORDER OF THE BASTIUM STELLARIS – Transhuman for bearer and unit

PSY-SIGIL OF SANCTION Psyker model only know +1 power, cast +1 power

ARMOUR OF GRAF TOSCHENKO bearer gets 2+ save and +1 wound

LAURELS OF COMMAND Can issue one order (from a specific subset, not all orders) in the enemy turn. Once per game

**Other Bits:**

Core army rules. Hammer for the emperor stays “possibly new name” but add “units in 6 inches can use officers leadership”

May for go hammer of the emperor and pick 2 doctrines

Scions are now elites but may be taken as troops if your whole detachment is scions (+2 other keywords)

Chain of command. You must select an officer to be your warlord if your army includes any officers. You can only have 1 commandant in each detachment If you have a “commandant” he must be your warlord. Unless your army contains Lord Solar then he must be your Warlord

On the scion thing above they are taken in troops instead of elites. So you can’t have them in both slots.

Platoons are kinda back, different to how we have seen them before (not like back in 2nd/3rd ed). Special Deatchment rules (kinda like Dark eldar) and there is a platoon keyword

Cadian shock troop squads can double up on SW. Snipee rifles are Tanith specific now, or elite if in a different army..

artillery “are mortal wounds machines.”

new lord solar charachter he has a movement of 12 so he is a Calvary model. (Supreme commander)

No conscripts (but whiteshields have a datasheet)

No Veteans

No Commisar Yarrick

No special Weapon squads

No spam of special weapons anymore in storm trooper squads. 4 allowed in a 10 man squad max of 2 the same weapon. 5 man squads get 2 special weapons but can only have 1 of each type max.

No Pask , Creed or Kell

Rough riders confirmed to be back

Ok so hammer of the emperor stayed the same and adds 6" if a leadership test is passed based as long as withing 6" of an officer or... 12" with a vox

You can play scions as it's own faction but lose a lot of abilities and about 25% of the codex is unusable

Lord Solar is what allows you to take scions as a troop. If creed is taken, she must be your Warlord as well.

command squads are back. You attach people to them like the old days. Officer 4 guardsmen. Then a officer of fleet / ordnance / astropath. They all have 1 wound. You can also attach Ogryn body guard which has the “big rule” do if you target the unit you have to use his toughness etc. same as the one previewed in the chaos Ogryn

Preachers / engineers are still independent and have more wounds etc

Orders still spread

Rogal Dorn Stuff:

This model's twin battle cannon can be replaced with 1 oppressor cannon and 1 co-axial autocannon.

This model's castigator gatling cannon can be replaced with 1 pulveriser cannon

This model can be equipped with one of the following: 2 meltaguns; 2 additional heavy stubbers.

This model can be equipped with one of the following: 2 heavy bolters; 2 multi-meltas.

This model can be equipped with armoured tracks.

Bs 4+ T9 2+ save (turret weapon rule)

Oppressor cannon D6+3 shots Str10 Ap -3 Damage 4 Blast 90 inch range

Armoured Tracks (upgrade) D1 weapons give you a +1 arm save

Between 250-280 points

17 wounds

 

On 10/18/2022 at 2:48 AM, Garrac said:

So, copied from DakkaDakka, which theyve copied from Mordian Glory:

 

 

I think MG has commented more leaks and rumours, but the streaming is THREE HOURS LONG

 

On 10/18/2022 at 3:23 AM, Handsome Fred said:

some more

Heavy Lascannon:
Range: 48''
Shots: 1
S14,
Ap-3? (unconfirmed ap),
Damage d6+6 (Ignores invuns)

Ogryns: Toughness +1 (to 6),
all Ogryns +2wounds (to 5),

Ability: Reduce damage by 1

Leman Russ:

Leman Russ Tank (AoC unknown) M10'' WS6+ BS4+ S7 T8 W13 LD7 A5 2+ save

Turret Weapons have Turret keyword (+1 to hit when firing)

Demolisher D6 shots S9 Ap-3 Damage D3+3

Nova Cannon: Shots d6+3 SameS Same ap damage 3 (Ignores cover)

Executioner: Shots: Unknown S8 AP-4 Damage 3 (Always considered overcharged)

Exterminator Autocannon: Shots: Heavy 6 S8 AP-2 Damage: 2

Battlecannon: Shots: Heavy d6+3 S8 AP-2 Damage: 3

Gatekeeper: Shots: Same as BC S9 AP-4 Damage: 3

Punisher: Shots: Heavy 20 S6 Ap-1 Damage: 1

Vanquisher: Shots: Heavy 1 S14 Ap-4 Damage D3+6 (Ignores invuns and D3 mortals on top)

Command squad -

Platoon (Elite) or Company commander (HQ) command squad units

2 Guardsmen make veteran heavy weapons Medic gives just the command squad a 5FnP Regimental standard - Reroll 1s to wound Any number of veterans can swap weapons in the same as before and well as (new):

• Master Vox (Unknown what this does)

• Standard Vox (as before)

You cannot select the same special or heavy weapon more than once in each unit.

Refractor stilll have 5+ invun

Veteran guardsmen have BS4+ but 2 more attacks

Kaskin:
Hotshot back to 24''
Hotshot sniper 36'', Heavy 1 S4, Ap-2, Damage (MW on roll of 6+)

Misc:
Shocktroop Squads cost same as Cadian (65points [p])
Cadian squads only get 2 special weapons (no heavy weapons) in squads - 6s explode to hit (ranged)
Catachan squads (70p) - 6s explode to hit in melee
DCoK squads (80p) - Minitrans human
Astropath - No longer lets you ignore cover. :( :( :( (Psyker divination staying as a psychic action WC7). This gets you a CP if you complete the action

 

[Emperor Ming]

If that's 5 points increase for squads

 

Even 65 for cadians, crazy for ten t3 models with practically no save

[duz_]

Perhaps we still get free wargear?

[Emperor Ming]

9 minutes ago, duz_ said:

Perhaps we still get free wargear?

Thats why squads got bumped to 60, another 5pts would be...

 

Unacceptable is one of many words I can think of

 

[Slave to Darkness]

1 hour ago, Emperor Ming said:

Thats why squads got bumped to 60, another 5pts would be...

 

 

Fixed it for you. 

[jaxom]

I wonder... certain upgrades in other armies let them use certain strategies for 0 CP. Maybe Cadian squads cost 5 pts more because they can use a specific strat for 0 CP?

[Slave to Darkness]

Pay more points for the joys of using the new stuff? Ngl I wouldnt put it past GW.

[Slave to Darkness]

Mordian Glory is doing a steam on the new datasheets 

 

 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

I hate these lives streams they’re always so rambling and the chat gets them off subject on tangents.

 

does anyone have a summary?

[Emperor Ming]

Yeah, and he does mention this is early out of date information, so it could not be final codex data anyway

[Slave to Darkness]

25 minutes ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

I hate these lives streams they’re always so rambling and the chat gets them off subject on tangents.

 

does anyone have a summary?

He was still streaming when I posted and I only watched about half hour before my laptop had a mental breakdown and crashed. By the time I rebooted I remembered I had sausages in the fridge and I lost interest. 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

2 hours ago, Slave to Darkness said:

He was still streaming when I posted and I only watched about half hour before my laptop had a mental breakdown and crashed. By the time I rebooted I remembered I had sausages in the fridge and I lost interest. 

The fact that a talk about rumors lasted over half an hour before he mentioned them all is exactly why I don’t watch these things

[Slave to Darkness]

I love his videos, I just get bored with live streams because people watching always derail them. At least he doesnt tell me to subscribe to onlyfans like most streamers though.

[domsto]

12 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

Minimum 4 shots/damage with turret weapons that are high S, AP, and D is not a bad minimum. D3+6 is a minimum of 7 and would just be an example of codex creep. I’m against codex creep even if it would benefit me. 
D6+3 is swingy in overall power sure but  it will give a reliably reasonable outcome every time.

Because the exterminator looks cooler and has cooler lore, obviously.

I am also against Codex creep, but 9.Ed is all about Codex creep at this point. So for Guard to be serious army once again we also need some Codex creep. Our WeaponStats and Special Rules are outclassed by every other Army

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

1 hour ago, domsto said:

I am also against Codex creep, but 9.Ed is all about Codex creep at this point. So for Guard to be serious army once again we also need some Codex creep. Our WeaponStats and Special Rules are outclassed by every other Army

We don’t need to creep. 
our codex getting more powerful to fit into the current edition isn’t creep imo and that’s all I want. I don’t think we have to be more powerful the LoV, or Tyranids. 
competitive with them so there’s actually a point to play against them sure, and I think these leaked rules so far put us at a point where we’re competitive with pretty much every other faction, especially considering the dorn is likely going to make all the russes look like chumps.

[Slave to Darkness]

I love my Russes, even if the Dorn is the new hot poop Ill still be rocking the chunky old buggers, they are named after the superior primarch after all, not one who just plays with Lego.