Looking for optimal tactics to counter space wolves and grey knights

[hd3]

Im just starting the game bow and still assembling my army but ny mates are playing wolves and grey knights respectively. Im debatibg alpha legion or a custom homebrew astartes chapter.  But ideally id like to apecialize my army list and build to facilitate tactics that will help me kill those armies specifically. Any advice on how to do this or where to ask to start planning? Some remarks were made about the alpha legion being 'fourth tier' and i would dearly love to wipe that smile off his face

Edited September 2, 2022 by hd3

[Karhedron]

Grey Knights and Space Wolves both like to be in melee so a good starting place would be weapons and units that can hurt them at range. Grav, plasma and the like are good for putting dents in power armour at range. You won't kill them all before they reach you but you can thin the numbers slightly. Grey Knights in particular are very strong with lots of psychic shenanigans so look for anti-psycher capabilities.

Beyond that it is a bit vague. Can you narrow down what you are considering? What sort of units appeal to you? What style of army do you want to play?

Dark Angels have some strong tricks and plasma for days but I don't know if they appeal. They also have plenty of reasons to tussle with both factions. 

[tychobi]

The counter to melee is chaff. You meed time to score before the wave of vanguard vets or terminators crashes your party. Investing in big guns seems ok on paper but if they get caught its bad. Feed em ciltists while your raptors steal their data. Space wolves especially can be very agressive and give you little to no time to figure things out let alone find your range. A solid scoring plan with contingencies and a stiff counter punch should be high priority. 

[hd3]

3 hours ago, Karhedron said:

Grey Knights and Space Wolves both like to be in melee so a good starting place would be weapons and units that can hurt them at range. Grav, plasma and the like are good for putting dents in power armour at range. You won't kill them all before they reach you but you can thin the numbers slightly. Grey Knights in particular are very strong with lots of psychic shenanigans so look for anti-psycher capabilities.

Beyond that it is a bit vague. Can you narrow down what you are considering? What sort of units appeal to you? What style of army do you want to play?

Dark Angels have some strong tricks and plasma for days but I don't know if they appeal. They also have plenty of reasons to tussle with both factions. 

Im trying to decide which army to play, ive narrowed it down to alpha legion, probably following this guide, https://warp-hammer.com/2022/08/16/for-the-emperor-the-complete-guide-to-playing-alpha-legion/

 

which seems to work well for AL in 9th edition. Or making a homebrew chapter, in which case I could specialize further in dealing with those two factions

Edited September 2, 2022 by hd3

[Bouargh]

Answer comes late, may be too late. And it should be taken with salt as the most recent gaming experience I have was with 7th Ed.

Anyway, some things change, while some other not. In term of tactics there are some universal constant I guess.

 

First, the ying/yang approach, ie build a shooty to face a melee oriented army do work only if you have enough volume of fire. Think astra militarum vs. SW.

In the short list you made I would advise look for things that can neutralize key aspects of your oponent tactics:

1. tar pit - cultists: these can be used to block key units or battlefield sections. Use to work with 20 strong marines units too, but I do not know if this is still possible in the 9th ed codex?

2. couter attack - get a good unit that can help your block your opoonent one more turn (or more) after he reached contact. use the rest of your army to get objective. CSM veterans / chosen or terminators  for example

3. out maneuvre - easy to say but not to do. CSM bikes are great for that

4. redeploy or deep strike - rhino / raptors

 

this will work for facing both SW and GK.

 

Against GK, if you can have a good stuff canceling savings of terminators (either weapons doing mortal wounds or with high AP) great too. I wonder what does these War dogs Stalkers - 3 for one slot with thermal spears if I am correct.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

GK really struggle versus power armor now due to Armor of Contempt - that’s for both shooting and melee. Space Wolves still smash face in melee but tend to be slow to get there.

 

Imperial SM are in a bad place now unfortunately so I would consider what you can do with Alpha Legion. There are more competitive legions though, something to think about. Word Bearers for example have a 5++ shrug versus MW which help counter GK psychic shenanigans.