Dealing with votann

[phandaal]

5 hours ago, Toldavf said:

It's honestly would be an interesting stance from the community if they where mass banned. It would be a good way to get the design team to get its act together. 

Yes it would. The tournaments working directly in partnership with GW probably would not do it though.

[ValourousHeart]

Finally got to play Votann with my Ravenwing.  Not sure what all the complaining is about.  The game was a lot of fun, both my opponent and I had a blast playing and even though I tabled him it felt like the game could swing either way.

 

I even gave him the advantage with the mission.  We played the mission on 276 of the BRB, Death or Glory.  He was the defender, which meant anything shy of tabling him, would mean he won.

 

I was able to get a number of charges off turn one.  And we stayed in his deployment zone the almost the entire game.

[9x19 Parabellum]

Well they already nerfed LoV since this thread was made and since the last post prior to yours, so, yeah.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Their win rate in tournaments is currently 67 percent.

[phandaal]

8 minutes ago, BLACK BLΠFLY said:

Their win rate in tournaments is currently 67 percent.

 

Where is that stat coming from? Last number I saw was 50% after last weekend.

[Karhedron]

8 minutes ago, BLACK BLΠFLY said:

Their win rate in tournaments is currently 67 percent.

 

Do you have a source for that? Given that Quins and Nids are currently perceived as being too high at 58 and 59% respectively, I can see a hefty beating with the nerf bat in the Votann's future.

[phandaal]

Will hold out til we see some stats, but it is hard to believe at face value. Looking at recent tournaments, Votann would have had to have swept the field with a massive win rate this last weekend to bump their total from ~50% to 67%.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

It appears toward the end of the following podcast:

 

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

[phandaal]

Got it. Looks like a single weekend win rate, which makes more sense.

 

Looking at the actual win numbers, Votann had the same showing as Sisters of Battle with the same number of players, and SoB had a 55% win rate.

 

Custodes had more top 10 finishes than Votann with a similar number of players and a 52% win rate.

 

Tau had more top 4 and top 10s than Votann with a 43% win rate.

 

et cetera

 

Votann have been averaging about 50% in their rolling total, which is probably their true power level when compared to factions with similar placings.

[Karhedron]

Beware the risks of a small sample size. 11 players over 1 weekend is less than 60 games which makes it statistically unreliable. With such small numbers, luck plays a disproportionate role in the numbers. A few lucky games or good players can significantly skew the results.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I certainly won’t dismiss the results out of hand. They are telling imo.

[phandaal]

44 minutes ago, BLACK BLΠFLY said:

I certainly won’t dismiss the results out of hand. They are telling imo.

 

A single weekend's win % is not indicative of their power, and the rolling 6-week % is much closer to 50%.

 

However, we can still look at the types of lists that are winning to determine what is strongest for Votann right now, which should help with figuring out how to beat them.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Aren’t you building an army right ?

[phandaal]

28 minutes ago, BLACK BLΠFLY said:

Aren’t you building an army right ?

 

Unfortunately, my Votann cannot match up with those stronger lists... Kronus Hegemony berserker spam is top so far, and I do not like the new berserker models.

 

Regardless, numbers are what they are. A single weekend means very little. This is why people look at long-run averages - 67% over the long run would make Votann the best army in the game, and that is very obviously not the case.

 

Post-nerf Votann are not nearly as scary as pre-nerf Votann.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

We shall see.

[jaxom]

On 11/29/2022 at 12:18 PM, phandaal said:

Got it. Looks like a single weekend win rate, which makes more sense.

 

I was there for that stream, it was weekend results from Stat Check. 

[Medjugorje]

 via Goonhammer the winrate against votann seem to be good. But I really think thats because there are so many blood angels on tournaments and they are extremly strong against votann. I think that fast armies like ravenwing and White scars can be very good too but all other chapters - especially Black Templars, Salamanders which strenght rely on toughness - have big problems against our new dwarfs.

 

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I haven’t had any problems the Leagues of Brokan.

[phandaal]

On 11/29/2022 at 5:24 PM, BLACK BLΠFLY said:

We shall see.

 

This weekend's win rate was around 45%, which if taken by itself puts Votann in danger of being too weak. Goes to show again that a single weekend cannot be taken as evidence of much of anything.

 

Big weaknesses seem to be mortal wounds and getting smashed up in combat. Could also convert to Tzeentch worship and get some flamers for the real ez mode.

[Karhedron]

19 minutes ago, phandaal said:

Big weaknesses seem to be mortal wounds and getting smashed up in combat. Could also convert to Tzeentch worship and get some flamers for the real ez mode.

 

Risky as GW have heavily hinted that Flamers are about to get walloped with the nerf bat.

[phandaal]

4 minutes ago, Karhedron said:

 

Risky as GW have heavily hinted that Flamers are about to get walloped with the nerf bat.

 

That was a joke. Anybody who swaps for that meta will get a hard lesson come January!

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

1 hour ago, phandaal said:

 

This weekend's win rate was around 45%, which if taken by itself puts Votann in danger of being too weak. Goes to show again that a single weekend cannot be taken as evidence of much of anything.

 

Big weaknesses seem to be mortal wounds and getting smashed up in combat. Could also convert to Tzeentch worship and get some flamers for the real ez mode.

I guess I’ll eat some nice tasty crow now.

Edited December 5, 2022 by BLACK BLΠFLY

[phandaal]

13 minutes ago, BLACK BLΠFLY said:

I guess I’ll eat some nice tasty crow now.

 

Actual rate looks to be between 50-55% for now, which makes me wonder just how busted the numbers would have been pre-nerf. Took a massive hit and still came out on the upper end of what GW considers good.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I’ve played against them… they are nasty.