Nurgle Are Nurgle Daemons bad?

[Special Officer Doofy]

Sooo after flipping through my codex, watching a buddy play a game with them, and watching a few bat reps and multiple videos explaining and ranking them, I get the impression that nurgle daemons kind of suck and are the worst of the 4 in the book. It feels like they were meant to have DR, but that made them way too strong, so they took it away but didn't lower any of the point costs in late testing.

Epidemius got the hardest nerf in the codex and is probably the worst unit in the codex. I'm fine with that, his old model was kind of crap and I would never use him. Technically one unit has to be the worst so it is what it is. Rotigus is worse than the other 3 named greater daemons it seems like.

Great unclean ones are easily the worst greater daemon. You can make a good one with a relic and WLT, but that's it. Someone argued how amazing it is, but it only shines against named things with damage caps like ghaz and abaddon, but they can easily avoid or screen the big slow GUO. They don't have any fun built in rules like -1 to be hit or +2 for spells like the others. To get any decent rule you have to sacrifice a much better damage dealing weapon. Want the cool looking bell to support your Plaguebearers? Get rid of your only weapon that can deal a decent amount of damage. Want that plus one to ONE of your spells while taking a mortal wound you can no longer shrug off with 5+++? Get rid of the flail for a much weaker dagger. At least he still looks cooler than the other three... (my opinion of course). They have decent heralds, Scrivener is good.

Plaguebearers got nerfed. 15pts for no more -1 to be hit in a large group, no more large group, no 5+++, less leadership, still at 4+ WS and no rerolling wounds. Yes they gained a toughness, wound and slightly better save for ranged, but that's kind of it. If you math out the old stats and point costs to the new one they are less durable per point in alot of situations, and less killy. Compare them to a plaguemarine. Only 6 points less but no -1 damage, no 3+ WS/BS, less attacks in melee, no ranged at all, worse save (3+ with armor of contempt and being able to use cover for the basic troop is much better than the Daemon save, it's troops, most shots won't be at 4AP for troops). No special weapons like flails or launchers. Need a herald to reroll ones to wound unlike the built in on melee for plague marines. Just a much worse unit for so little less points.

Nurglings got hit. Can't be your required troop choice and doesn't come with obsec. I get the idea behind it, they didn't want people to avoid Plaguebearers and spam nurglings, but they could have, you know, not made Plaguebearers suck so people would want to take them more.

Beasts are cool and do what they are supposed to. Drones are not that bad, still a little expensive and not that killy, but they do provide flying and movement, two things nurgle sorely lack.

I started building and painting some of my nurgle stuff (got 3 start collectings, 3 beasts, a GUO and then that sigmar box with 20 bearers and the 2 other heralds). I've lost all desire to put them on the table as their own 2k force, will probably just make a little of everything to use as an addition to my DG for fluff reasons, definitely not for crunch. I was hoping they would suck me back in to talk to my brother and some guys to get back into 40k, but they are not. Most of my group quit because of the codex creep and are hoping for a 10th reset. No complaints about the core rules, just some of the bonker codexes they released. 

Anyone else get that vibe with nurgle? I know it's really early to "stick the nail in the coffin", but I feel like nurgle is not doing well for being part of the newest codex. Still has the best looking models of the 4 though. Who needs to be pretty with lobster claws, or be a red imp with a sword or a dancing fireball when you can be a cyclops covered in pimples and open sores with a beer gut!

Edit: I also understand alot of the strengths that come with the codex are in the deepstriking and Warpstorm stuff. Deepstriking I will be able to take advantage of because my whole group has multiple mats and tables made from previous editions so we are hardliners on 6 x 4 tables, I'll have room to deepstrike. But nurgle's best Warpstorm is +1 to hit, but they left all the units at 4+ so it really only brings them inline with other codexes and does nothing for the HQ's already at 2+ most of the time. Wasn't trying to make a doom and gloom post, just at work on the night shift with hours to kill so I figured I'd share an opinion. And that's all it is, you don't have to agree with all or anything I said.

Edited September 22, 2022 by Xenith
Less of the immaturity. Post like adults please!

[Tokugawa]

Daemon is one of the very few(if not only) 9th codex factions which don't require strictly army purity. You can bring 80% Nurgle, 20% other stuff to fill the absent functions of Nurgle. 

If you decide to go "100%(not DG-centered) Nurgle" then you choose hard mode voluntarily. The whole pre-codex 9th time is not pleasant, and a new codex won't make it worse, because can't.

[Special Officer Doofy]

5 hours ago, Tokugawa said:

Daemon is one of the very few(if not only) 9th codex factions which don't require strictly army purity. You can bring 80% Nurgle, 20% other stuff to fill the absent functions of Nurgle. 

While true, that has nothing to do with this thread and whether nurgle daemons kind of suck compared to the other daemons and how some units didn't really improve or got worse from their old rules and costs.

5 hours ago, Tokugawa said:

If you decide to go "100%(not DG-centered) Nurgle" then you choose hard mode voluntarily. The whole pre-codex 9th time is not pleasant, and a new codex won't make it worse, because can't.

I get it, the codex in general is "stronger". Considering by the end of the old codex it was terrible and had just about the lowest win rate, that is not saying anything. Alot of people don't mix and match daemons though. Even the combat patrol is all khorne, not a little of everything.

I'm curious, I still have my old codex, maybe when I get 2k points painted up I'll play against my friends nurgle daemons and use the 8th codex, points, spells and strats. I don't think nurgle really got any better for how much more everything costs, and arguebly some of them got worse without 5+++ and the other changes and price hikes. And that is my issue. I'm not a tournament player, I just play my friends and brother. But I don't really think nurgle got any better. Nurglings and Plaguebearers took a step back for sure, GUO got a smidge better but costs more. Who cares he got some more wounds and 1T, he lost 5+++ which effectively was giving him more wounds than he has now anyways. Beasts are probably better per point. Drones probably too. I just look at a codex like Tyranid's and compare it to their old codex and it's like WOW did they get a hell of alot better. Then I start comparing nurgle daemons and how much they lost to what they gained with the huge price hikes and it doesn't seem like they really gained much for how much more they cost now.

Edited September 17, 2022 by Special Officer Doofy

[Plaguecaster]

Yeah it's rather disappointing plague bearers are so expensive but don't have any really sort of resilence apart from their daemon save which everyone gets 

They can only be 10man strong as apprantly daemon hordes are no longer a thing anymore 

T5 doesn't really help since they no longer get disgustingly resilent especially with all the auto wounding shenanigans GW are giving out in droves.

Epidemius is the biggest disappointment they completely  nerfed him due to being over abused in DG daemon engine spam lists they should of left him being the best nurgle daemon buffer with the tally but keyword locked it so only affected the new Damon keyword. 

 Beasts drones and grinders do see really good and would love to try and use them just wish the humble plague bearer was more useful and an all nurgle daemon army was just as strong as the other gods. Would of loved to field a large 20 man plagueberer squad with couple of plaguebearer characters buffing them since all of them can only buff one unit a turn 

 

Still got the fools hope they redo the fw daemons for the new codex soon and both mamon and corbax end up being pretty strong with some decent rules to help nurgle be more better

[Blight1]

Had a few games with my nurgle daemons and they're definitely lacking in the toughness department.   My opponents kept commenting on how it was weirdly easy to kill them now.  I do wonder why they're the most expensive when they have far less to do than other god's daemons.

My opponents tended to over value the beasts and focus on the auto heals as a broken mechanic then proceeded to wipe the squad out fairly reliably.

Without a -1 damage or a 5+++ they're just too squishy.  Extra toughness doesn't really matter when other armies auto wound, re-roll all wounds, and spam mortals.

It's incredibly weird to say that the bloodthirster is considerably tougher than a GUO.

[tychobi]

Yep slow snd soft is a bad combo

[Furnace Lord]

Any thoughts on Horticulous Slimux and Feculent Gnarlmaws? I pretty fresh to this edition and have no idea whether they're any good but like the models and theme.

[Blight1]

Well slimex is decent as a herald with beasts and/or flys.  He buffs them fairly well.  His melee is ok but he's not terribly durable.   I lost mine to a single CSM squad.   Also don't count on using his terrain corruption ability more than once.  He's incredibly slow with a big base and it requires him to be wholly within the terrain feature.

Trees are kinda neat in a mono god army and can make a decent defensive bulwark for plaguebearers.  They're just killable and a wee bit expensive. 

 

Oh and I get that they made it a generic warpstorm ability but nurgle really hurts not having ignore movement penalties.   Both deathguard and leagues have it built in but nurgle daemons have to use precious warpstorm points just to move 5".

[Plaguecaster]

So Corbax, Mamon and Scabeiathrax were updated finally for the new codex, Scabeiathrax is still expensive as and lost all  survivability likewise with corbax and Mamon though Mamon and Scabeiathrax still buff all nurgle daemons instead of only just those from chaos daemon codex though who knows if that is another oversight by the useless attempts at faqing fw units. I wouldn't mind trying to use Mamon and corbax somehow, Mamon is still pretty cheap and actually can hit hard having access to D3 weapons plus Corvax still has swallow whole and still gets a 4+ feel no pain against all D1 weapons which isn't the greatest but some sort of resilence nurgle daemons have been stripped completely of 

 

[Khornestar]

It does seem Nurgle got the short end of the stick this time around. My daemons collection is mono Khorne so I get the dedication to the chosen god and the drawbacks associated with that. Still, it’s a shame there wasn’t a bit more thought put into the units and rules. They do seem way too expensive in general.

[Blight1]

It hurts a bit when the playtesters said that they had the -1 damage during testing.

[Special Officer Doofy]

59 minutes ago, Khornestar said:

It does seem Nurgle got the short end of the stick this time around. My daemons collection is mono Khorne so I get the dedication to the chosen god and the drawbacks associated with that. Still, it’s a shame there wasn’t a bit more thought put into the units and rules. They do seem way too expensive in general.

Had they got DR instead or with the toughness increase on a few units they might be doing better. I am happy they moved them away from being a horde army, but I wouldn't have wished for it if I knew it would be making them (at least nurgle) worse.

56 minutes ago, Blight1 said:

It hurts a bit when the playtesters said that they had the -1 damage during testing.

Right. And even then, 5+++ > -1D. Nurgle Daemons suck haha.

[Ulfast]

Dont want to be a negative guy but it seems daemons of all gods struggle. Some builds will propably be good but for more causal players I think this is hard codex to use.

[INKS]

Since you know so much about Nurgle. Can you explain the role of some of the different units, or the role they are suppose to play. what do I do with nurglings, or beasts of nurgle, Greater daemon and so on.

[dice4thedicegod]

What are peoples thoughts on rotigus (not much more expensive than a regular GUO and has extra wound and does extra mw in psychic phase) and mamon (seems like a very cheap prince)?

[Blight1]

On 10/1/2022 at 11:50 PM, INKS said:

Since you know so much about Nurgle. Can you explain the role of some of the different units, or the role they are suppose to play. what do I do with nurglings, or beasts of nurgle, Greater daemon and so on.

Well I'd say beasts work fine as objective campers(heroic intervention helps with this) or shock troops in a pinch(mortal wound output helps with this).  They're potentially the tankiest and most lethal pure nurgle unit.

Nurglings are simply there to take midfield objectives early and generally be a nuisance.   Your opponent will have to deal with them eventually and hopefully that saves some of your other units from shooting.  They don't really do anything else.

GUO can either go for a killy build with relic and WLT to try and kill a Ghaz early or a bell build to res flys and plaguebearers. (Mostly worth it with flys)

Feel like Rotigus is a bit of a middle of the road choice.  He's ok.

Flys are mostly midfield to hopefully backfield harrassment.  They're decently killy and about as fast as Nurgle gets.

I'm hoping plaguebearers and the various heralds are relatively obvious in their rolls considering their very specific buffs.

[happyslugger]

Well I'm going to test my khorne and nurgle army (1k of each) against my son's tau next week. Will be interesting to see how they got on.