Casualty phase

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

I mentioned this in the 10th Ed wishlist thread but a casualty phase.

the actions taken during a turn are theoretically happening simultaneously, therefore it doesn’t make sense to immediately remove models that go to 0 wounds.

 

so to better represent the simultaneous activity I came up with the idea of the wound phase.

all wounds are counted during the shoot and fight phases, but the models stay on the table.

the wound phase is the last phase of a turn after the morale phase. This is the phase where models are removed and in the case of vehicles with degrading profiles the phase where the profile degrades.

a solution that provides both sides an opportunity to use all of their models, and gives both players turn 1 alpha strike capability.

[Xenith]

I actually tried this in a recent apocalypse style HH game - there's a huge, huge second turn advantage if you only remove casualties after both players each get a turn - basically player 1 doesnt get to use models again after player 2 kills them, while player 2 does. Maybe if it was in an end phase or something after each individual players turn, so both sides get one more turn from killed models?

[tychobi]

Works great. It's how Apocalypse works, a shared damage phase after both players activate. 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

On 9/28/2022 at 7:46 AM, Xenith said:

I actually tried this in a recent apocalypse style HH game - there's a huge, huge second turn advantage if you only remove casualties after both players each get a turn - basically player 1 doesnt get to use models again after player 2 kills them, while player 2 does. Maybe if it was in an end phase or something after each individual players turn, so both sides get one more turn from killed models?

how did you do it, because it doesn't seem like you did it the way i described.

the way i described no one should get any advantage beyond how lucky their roles in the previous phases were.

[The Unseen]

On 9/28/2022 at 7:46 AM, Xenith said:

I actually tried this in a recent apocalypse style HH game - there's a huge, huge second turn advantage if you only remove casualties after both players each get a turn - basically player 1 doesnt get to use models again after player 2 kills them, while player 2 does. Maybe if it was in an end phase or something after each individual players turn, so both sides get one more turn from killed models?

Isn't this sort of the point? In any game of 40k without copious amounts of LoS blocking obscuring terrain, the player with the first turn can casually blow large portions of the opponents army apart because the lethality creep is so high. But this normally leaves the first players units out in the open, which doesn't matter because player 2's army is much reduced. A casualty phase limits the power of the turn 1 alpha strike. If you let player 1 get 2 turns out of their whole army before removing casualties, you're back to the first turn alpha strike advantage again, just with extra steps. In this way, both players get 1 turn with their whole army, and turn 2 they are dealing with the casualties suffered during turn 1, etc.

In the HH the addition of reactions and the overall lower lethality of the game, I don't think HH needs the rules, the IGYG system works ok there because you aren't generally losing half your army turn 1 (at least that I've seen) and you have reactions to break up the turns and not just roll saves till your turn. It would be a pretty cool mechanic in base 40k at this point though, since everything dies so fast.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

On 1/13/2023 at 1:16 AM, The Unseen said:

Isn't this sort of the point? In any game of 40k without copious amounts of LoS blocking obscuring terrain, the player with the first turn can casually blow large portions of the opponents army apart because the lethality creep is so high. But this normally leaves the first players units out in the open, which doesn't matter because player 2's army is much reduced. A casualty phase limits the power of the turn 1 alpha strike. If you let player 1 get 2 turns out of their whole army before removing casualties, you're back to the first turn alpha strike advantage again, just with extra steps. In this way, both players get 1 turn with their whole army, and turn 2 they are dealing with the casualties suffered during turn 1, etc.

In the HH the addition of reactions and the overall lower lethality of the game, I don't think HH needs the rules, the IGYG system works ok there because you aren't generally losing half your army turn 1 (at least that I've seen) and you have reactions to break up the turns and not just roll saves till your turn. It would be a pretty cool mechanic in base 40k at this point though, since everything dies so fast.

you got the point, but i would have the casualty phase at the very end of each turn including turn1