Hopes and expectations for Marines in the new balance Dataslate and points updates.

[Medjugorje]

dont understand me wrong. I want GW to buff them. But please not this cheap stupid way. They should get -1dmg or -1 to wound against attacks from Str.1-7 or something similar.

Stormshields should get AoC too

[WrathOfTheLion]

What would be the point of core in the first place if they give it to SM vehicles like that?

 

Its original purpose was to stop auras/interactions on many of them, notably for IH.

 

If they undo what even begat the rule, they'd be better served just removing it.

Edited October 16, 2022 by WrathOfTheLion

[Medjugorje]

I think buffs should not be for everyone because so its just about buffing all stuff into the most effecient unit. Buffs in general should not be that strong.

 

But there are a few extrem strong buffs and CORE would give the opportunity to reroll all MM on tanks. 

I like the fact that you cant increase the output for vehicles that strong - but I think their main weakness is their lack of toughness although a lot of that tanks have T8.

They need rules which make them harder to destroy.

[DesuVult]

Core is a joke already.  Also GW should give vehicles bolter discipline.

[Kallas]

13 hours ago, DesuVult said:

Also GW should give vehicles bolter discipline.

*Excited Land Raider Crusader noises*

[Medjugorje]

On 10/17/2022 at 3:25 AM, DesuVult said:

Core is a joke already.  Also GW should give vehicles bolter discipline.

that would be awesome although it would help just a few of them.

 

The big mistake GW made with SM vehicles since codex release was  their low point drops. And I fear that this time it will be the same.

And overall SM are overcosted. Their WL-Traits are okay, Relics are bad - one thing my BT have a big advantage --> their WL Traits are very bad but their Relics are great.

[Maritn]

Yeah, I expect them to do the usual thing. "You won't believe how many points we shaved off of the Land Raider / Repulsor! Get them ready to use them in the future even more! Their base cost will be reduced by 5 points. Isn't that incredible???"

[The Emperors Champion22]

On 10/18/2022 at 4:20 AM, Medjugorje said:

that would be awesome although it would help just a few of them.

 

The big mistake GW made with SM vehicles since codex release was  their low point drops. And I fear that this time it will be the same.

And overall SM are overcosted. Their WL-Traits are okay, Relics are bad - one thing my BT have a big advantage --> their WL Traits are very bad but their Relics are great.

Space marine warlord traits and relics are pretty trash compared to whats bring released now. Theirs and other supplements (templars warlord traits are definitely garbage) need their warlord traits and/or relics looked at for buffs.

[Medjugorje]

BT Relics are great - even for nowadays standards. The WL-Traits which make all units obsec and let heal one model for free is not bad. Honestly all others are not really intersting.

[DesuVult]

Even if WLTs and relics were better they mostly are outside our price range now.  Several chapters are CP hungry to function. 

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

BT have some decent WLTs. Are they the best…  no but MoA, OK and PoF are solid choices for sure.

[Medjugorje]

2 hours ago, BLACK BLΠFLY said:

BT have some decent WLTs. Are they the best…  no but MoA, OK and PoF are solid choices for sure.

BT WL-Traits are absolute hardcore TRASH.  Stop trolling.

[XeonDragon]

I'm going to be a little radical here.... with the context being that a data slate is a stop gap measure, when what SMs need is a new codex... Space Marines are in many ways, married to the "Holy Bolter". I'd love to see all space marines get re-roll 1s to hit with bolt weapons. Period. So basically everyone gets bolter fusillades, all the time.

 

I'd also like to see plasma changed to:

• mortal wounds on 1s to infantry, instead of killing the model and
• 6s to wound when overcharged do a mortal wound to the target.

I'd like to see every SM infantry unit get obsec, but if I had to pick a couple, BGVs and VGVs. I'd also like to see these genetically engineered super-soldiers more faster than imperial guard troops, and have more base attacks in melee. So maybe at least 7" move. I'd be open to Primaris being a bit faster (running), and maybe having +1S in melee. Firstborn and Primaris should both have base 2 attacks, you know, more than normal humans given their super fast reflexes etc.  

 

And since we're talking about hopes.... maybe allowing "veteran" units to natively re-roll 1s to hit or something? Or have BS/WS 2+ So Stern/Vang guard veterans and veteran intercessors re-rolling 1s to hit or hitting on 2s? 

 

Terminators being able to roll two saving throws: normal + invulnerable save, take which ever one you want? It would make them super-tanky. 

 

Otherwise.... points cuts for troops. Serious points cuts. Same for special and combo weapons. Points cuts.

Edited October 19, 2022 by XeonDragon

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Geedub has changed the stat lines for lots of units this edition… certainly there are some that would make sense for SM such as what XeonDragon has suggested.

[DesuVult]

The problem with stat changes is that custodes are right there just above marines in stats.

[XeonDragon]

11 minutes ago, DesuVult said:

The problem with stat changes is that custodes are right there just above marines in stats.

 

Good point.. I think, in the longer term, GW needs to adjust the 'scale', including dice (d10 for example), but also S/T/armour saves to allow more differentiation. I can see merit in humans being S3, T3, uber normal humans being S4, T3, firstborn marines being S4, T4, Primaris S5, T4, Custodes S6, T5 and so on.

 

But yeah, I'd like to see First Born marines have more attacks in on-going combat and be faster on foot than normal humans at least. 

[Medjugorje]

wow... again GW made far too less on the dataslate.

[Kallas]

An absolutely nothing dataslate.

 

Leviathan nerf is welcome, but barely anything at all for any of the underperforming factions - I almost would have preferred no change at all than this measly piece of crap. Shock Tactics is mediocre in the absolute best situation possible.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

25 minutes ago, Kallas said:

An absolutely nothing dataslate.

 

Leviathan nerf is welcome, but barely anything at all for any of the underperforming factions - I almost would have preferred no change at all than this measly piece of crap. Shock Tactics is mediocre in the absolute best situation possible.

Agreed 100%.

[Medjugorje]

at least the last BT secondary is now trash because Shock tactics is far better.

[Karhedron]

On 10/7/2022 at 11:02 AM, Karhedron said:

Relying on secondaries to tip the balance is unfair because it does not help with other modes of play. Even something as official as the Tempest of War cards.

 

So what to GW go and do? 

 

Quote

As we noted last month, Space Marine armies underperform for unexpected reasons – not least because they’re often a player’s first army. This tweak should help them earn a few more Victory Points.

 

Change the Shock Tactics secondary mission objective in War Zone Nephilim Grand Tournament Mission Pack to read: ‘At the end of your turn, score 4VP if you control one or more objective markers that were controlled by your opponent at the start of that turn, and an ADEPTUS ASTARTES unit from your army is within range of that objective marker.’

 

Secondary objectives are key to winning games in Matched Play, so by rewarding a number of popular subfactions with this boost to Shock Tactics, we expect to see the needle move on the number of reported Space Marine wins.

 

[Maritn]

Wow, they even managed to disappoint me despite my crappy expectations. This is even more ridiculous than reducing LRs by 5 points.

[Emperor Ming]

Tempest is out of date now, they were never reprinted for Nephilim, so you will find the rules on the tempest cards, give you things like 12 cp

 

Some people are fine with playing with older out of date rules I guess

 

I'm not

[Metzombie]

How ist tempest out of date? It is a separated playmode. The changes for nephilim do not interact with it.

[Emperor Ming]

Apart from mission selection is copy and paste from warzone nachmund, they were released during warzone nachmund