Guard reveals

[casb1965]

Nice to see everyone going off half-cocked before seeing the new Codex in its entirety. 

I think I'll reserve judgement until I have the Codex in my grubby hands and see exactly what HW have or haven't done. 

[our_baz]

Aesthetics considered i really like the new INF squad, just not their helmets, a trip to conversion / bits site for some alternative heads me thinks. Those big Big field howitzers, giving me ideas to paint them as Kings Troop Royal Horse Artillery, must buy for me. 

 

[duz_]

Pre orders for new KT with Karskin next week

 https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/10/09/sunday-preview-kill-team-expands-middle-earth-heroes-return-and-new-hobby-tools/ 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

Think about the gun lines you can build now.

artillery regiment/company 

6 bombard guns

9 mortars

3 basilisks

possibly a mortar in every infantry squad…

or 

6 hvy lascannons

9 lascannons or autocannons

a buttload of leman russes

plus infantry squad heavy weapons…

Edited October 9, 2022 by Inquisitor_Lensoven

[redmapa]

This new infantry squad specialization makes me wonder if Scions will remain troops and just be infantry with hotshot while kasrkin fill up the elite section because I doubt they will be a troop choice with access to a total of 3 regiment rules because at that point why take crappy infantry? So far it seems like IG is getting a very modular codex with plenty of moving parts to personalize your army, I'm excited to see the options. My wildest wish now is an Abhuman regiment rule so I can take nothing but Ogryns and tanks!.

[Warhead01]

So, what do we think the base size is for the heavy weapons teams now? Looks smaller than the 60MM. Nice change too.

[Slave to Darkness]

1 hour ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

Think about the gun lines you can build now.

artillery regiment/company 

6 bombard guns

9 mortars

3 basilisks

possibly a mortar in every infantry squad…

 

*excited gasmask noises*

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

1 hour ago, redmapa said:

This new infantry squad specialization makes me wonder if Scions will remain troops and just be infantry with hotshot while kasrkin fill up the elite section because I doubt they will be a troop choice with access to a total of 3 regiment rules because at that point why take crappy infantry? So far it seems like IG is getting a very modular codex with plenty of moving parts to personalize your army, I'm excited to see the options. My wildest wish now is an Abhuman regiment rule so I can take nothing but Ogryns and tanks!.

There’s a good chance scions just go away at this point. A troop choice with 2 specials is showing up, Kasrkin w/ carapace armor and better stats are returning.

[Marshal Mittens]

Kraskin, in my opinion, have always looked worlds better than scions. Had some of the old metal ones for inquisition stormtroopers back in the day, they looked amazing.

I do wish we were getting more Krieg in plastic. 

[Slave to Darkness]

Just now, Warhead01 said:

So, what do we think the base size is for the heavy weapons teams now? Looks smaller than the 60MM. Nice change too.

 On the plus side, smaller bases fit in ruins and more importantly trenches easier. The bigger bases were a nightmare on my mates old cityfight army. Just annoying as I have just done a load of heavy weapon squads. 

[duz_]

I hope they don't change from 60. I've spent too much on fancy resin bases for that. I don't think they could sit on anything much smaller? GW also has been increasing bases sizes recently. I suspect no change. 

[sairence]

1 hour ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

There’s a good chance scions just go away at this point. A troop choice with 2 specials is showing up, Kasrkin w/ carapace armor and better stats are returning.

I really doubt they're going away. The kits really aren't that old and Kasrkin are specifically Cadian. It would make very little sense to drop them just because they brought back one regiment's nostalgia special forces. Maybe they'll put them even more into the drop-trooper niche. Either way, we'll know soon enough.

 

[Feral_80]

I quite like it that we finally went back to the original concept of IG armies as composed by elements from many different regiments working together. The appearance may be a bit inconsistent, but allows far greater freedom in modelling, painting, and collecting.

I like it far less if we take into consideration that this is happening right after GW first forced people to play their models in certain ways by assigning a fixed doctrine to each regiment, strongly encouraging each player to a) first, buy build and combine 2 different regiments in detachments to optimize units and doctrines; then, GW b) forced players to choose 1 regiment only from the moment it became impossible/impractical to field detachments belonging to different regiments.

I believe the current choice is due to GW realizing that the rigid regiment-doctrine system did not work at all. But it is also due to a not-so-subtle marketing plan.

 

As for the new models, mhh. Infantry is fine, but these humans now look so realistic that they almost do not look like GW stuff anymore (and yes, something in the knee pads looks weird) :) I'll have mine with face masks if possible anyway.

Not sold on the Command Squad and Commissar; the Sentinels, I'll never understand why they chose to replace the old models. Artillery promises to fun, but yet another way to circumvent the sad fact that e.g. currently standard lascannons are a joke, so now we have 'overcharged' lascannons.

All in all, I'm not overexcited and I put my hopes in the next round of new models.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

1 hour ago, sairence said:

I really doubt they're going away. The kits really aren't that old and Kasrkin are specifically Cadian. It would make very little sense to drop them just because they brought back one regiment's nostalgia special forces. Maybe they'll put them even more into the drop-trooper niche. Either way, we'll know soon enough.

 

A name on a datasheet is pretty irrelevant.

1. Many regiments are known to base their gear and organization off of Cadian gear and methods, so elite troopers in Kasrkin style armor would make sense.

2. You can literally just play Kasrkin models as scions, and vice versa.

the scion models may not be that old, but they’re still using the old scale/proportions, and based on my own personal experience not that many people like the scion models, while a lot of people love the Kasrkin models(hence why they brought them back)

[duz_]

It is hard to speculate what GW's plan is with Scions, Karskin and DKoK - since they've all been described as veterans or elites. We do know that although GW does retire kits, they don't usually retire plastic kits unless they're being updated. So we can assume Scions will stay in some form.

I guess well have to wait and see what the codex, or codex previews bring.

[Warhead01]

3 hours ago, Slave to Darkness said:

 On the plus side, smaller bases fit in ruins and more importantly trenches easier. The bigger bases were a nightmare on my mates old cityfight army. Just annoying as I have just done a load of heavy weapon squads. 

I do like the smaller bases rather than the big 60MM. I'm guessing at most these are50MM but they could be smaller. That or the new AM models are huge. 
I have something like 9  or 12 Heavies I'll rebase. I don't think that would be a major problem playing any older edition. Never cared for the 60MM bases. 


I'm mostly interested in the Field Ordinance and walkers at this point. I've dropped out for over a year now I think. If I am not going to play then I have no interest in buying anything at all.  It's a shame we didn't get those huge field guns a few editions ago.  

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

Here’s the big question, will the lore be retconned to claim FOBs were always around, or will it be new gear from cawl?

[Emperor Ming]

Not sure basic field guns require a fancy explanation

[duz_]

9 minutes ago, Emperor Ming said:

Not sure basic field guns require a fancy explanation

Indeed when it comes to IG weaponry there's so much lore and references to pull from. As opposed to Space Marines, who are very specialised and well documented as to their armaments. 

It probably won't have much fanfare announcement vs our Space Marine counterparts. 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

I find ‘it’s always been there’ to just be a lazy answer when new units are introduced.

[duz_]

Unfortunately GW has painted themselves into a corner with innovation in M.41.

So their choices are it was always there or Cawl made. The latter also gnashes teeth. 

Perhaps another thread dedicated to hypothesising how these new units will be explained. I'm curious if the sentinel will just become the new sentinel, as if it always had been, as opposed to new and improved upgraded sentinel. 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

42 minutes ago, duz_ said:

Unfortunately GW has painted themselves into a corner with innovation in M.41.

So their choices are it was always there or Cawl made. The latter also gnashes teeth. 

Perhaps another thread dedicated to hypothesising how these new units will be explained. I'm curious if the sentinel will just become the new sentinel, as if it always had been, as opposed to new and improved upgraded sentinel. 

Personally cawl made it is much better than “was always there”

The fact that cawl has been making new things makes “it’s always been there” an even worse explanation to me lol

Edited October 10, 2022 by Inquisitor_Lensoven

[Captain Caine 24th]

Well, there are a lot of forgeworlds relatively unexplored. Voss, Gryphonne, etc. Lots of patterns for guns. Agrippina might make lore sense. But you've probably guessed right with cawl.

I will say the infantry heavy collars remind me of old dawn of war artwork. Cold weather bases will look great, which might mix great with Krieg.

I almost wonder if we're in the middle of a paradigm shift in design. Shifting not to true scale, heroic, or comic book, but it's own signature thing. Im not thrilled to replace my heavy weapon bases, but so it goes.

As to the field guns, maybe they'll grow on me. 100mm base is a big red flag, especially if LOS only, low T, or low M. These dudes look like a straight liability. That said, we don't know yet. Guard will play totally different. Tank commander and manticores might be totally things of the past. And more reveals to come! Cautiously optimistic this far.

 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

14 minutes ago, Captain Caine 24th said:

Well, there are a lot of forgeworlds relatively unexplored. Voss, Gryphonne, etc. Lots of patterns for guns. Agrippina might make lore sense. But you've probably guessed right with cawl.

I will say the infantry heavy collars remind me of old dawn of war artwork. Cold weather bases will look great, which might mix great with Krieg.

I almost wonder if we're in the middle of a paradigm shift in design. Shifting not to true scale, heroic, or comic book, but it's own signature thing. Im not thrilled to replace my heavy weapon bases, but so it goes.

As to the field guns, maybe they'll grow on me. 100mm base is a big red flag, especially if LOS only, low T, or low M. These dudes look like a straight liability. That said, we don't know yet. Guard will play totally different. Tank commander and manticores might be totally things of the past. And more reveals to come! Cautiously optimistic this far.

 

The gun is indirect fire, I don’t remember about the rocket launcher, and lascannon obviously LoS.

if I had to guess, T5 4W and movement will be trash.

 

Glad we didn’t just get stuck with a las talon though 

 

My expectations for the artillery 

gun- heavy2 S8 AP-3 D2

rocket launcher- heavy6 S5 AP-1 D1

lascannon- heavy1 S10 AP-4 D4

[sairence]

I guess there have been FW field guns theoretically available to everyone for a long time. So at least the concept isn't new. And they're not the type of flashy big impact addition like Knighs were that they require a whole novel series to explain. They'll probably just be treated as a normal part of Guard artillery thay just hasn't been specifically mentioned before.