What do we need in 10:ed?

[Ahzek451]

I'll stand firm and bet my entire T.sons army that we are indeed getting some kind of daemonic robots (GW could not have laid out heavier hints). My not-so-confident bet was that our turn would be within 3-6 months, but I didn't imagine it would be pushed out darn near to Q2 to Q4 of 2025. Sounds like Eldar and guard have Q1 and then there is filler with imperial knights for springtime. My new wager is a summer/fall release 2025. 

That being said, GW is seemingly saving the chaos legions/daemons to release around the same time. Personally I am starting to question the validity of the disbandment of daemons and putting them with the legions. So for fun, my current bets:

Absolute confidence - new T.sons/Tzeentch bots
Logical geuss - release summer/fall 2025
Speculative geuss - Tzeentch daemons joins army. Hoping we get a new updated and personal decal sheet along with release. 

Totally out there geusses - GW knows the legions are rather thin in unit choices, saving a bigger release for the later section of 10th. My hunch says we are getting more than one thing to play with. Realistically, the aforementioned bots and a new character. With some luck...a psychic dread/walker(I am more than sure GW is aware that the fans want this one, its been a consistent vocal desire for many years).  

[Norman Paperman]

I think there's a lot of validity to the daemons getting rolled into their legions. DG don't need them quite so much, but the other three (assuming EC don't get the largest release wave ever) could all happily use the roster boost, even with whatever new kits WE and TS get. Demon players will be sad of course, but I very much get the sense that armies come and go over the years in this game. With EC and Imperial agents getting added, they have to do some level of pruning. 

 

I'd love to field an army of Sorcerors, Mechs, Marines, and Daemons all at once. That sounds CHAOTIC to me 

[Ahzek451]

If it's the case that daemons do get rolled in, I would sincerely feel for daemon players. It's essentially gutting/elimination a faction in a way. And that's a gutt punch for sure. 

 

But on the other hand, the god legions are....well...they are one anyway. Tzeentch chose magnus and the t.sons as their mortal disciples. As each other god did. It makes all kinds of sense. Artwork aplenty showing t.sons marching alongside pink horrors and screamers. 

 

I joined this game back when daemons belonged In the same army as chaos marines. This was one of the defining features that seperated is from the loyal astartes. And I will selfishly enjoy anything that returns to the hayday when I can return to marching my rubrics alongside daemons of Tzeentch.

[Ulfast]

It shall indeed be intersting to see what GW chose when it comes to chaos legion and daemons. I´m hoping chaos daemons still will be a stand alone army but I would not be to sad to see them rolled into every god specific army eather. Also it would solve some problems, like using allies and those nurglings showing up all over the place even if don´t suit.

[Indy Techwisp]

So obviously we want new stuff with our 10th Ed release, but as we saw with 8th edition just palming off a bunch more AoS models on to us we're no strangers to just getting an editon full of imported units.

 

So a slightly different approach for "What are we getting?" might be to ask "What can we steal from someone else?"

(Besides just getting whatever new Tzaangors the Disciples of Tzeentch get in AoS 4th, as that's too obvious.)

 

Personally, I think we could end up stealing the Dark Commune, Traitor Guard and Traitor Enforcer from CSM.

The former because a Psyker Cultist Character would be useful for us and the latter 2 because the kit we use for our Cultists has gone out of print so we're almost certainly Losing Autoguns and going to the new box loadout but without anything to replace the autogun Cultists with.

I'd also like to see TSons yoink the Master of Possession but I know that's a less reasonable thing to expect.

It'd be fun to use tho.

[Ahzek451]

That could very well happen. 

Personally, I am not sure GW wants to steal anymore as part of their vision for chaos marines and the god legions. I think if it was going to happen it would have already.

I get the impression that there is either someone or a directive in place going forward with the god legions that if we are going down this road of separation, then we are going to commit to making these armies as distinct as possible. Hindsight being what it is, any choice that can be made at GW is going to be at a snails pace, so upon the initial release of the Thousand sons, with the limited models they did have, they HAD to do something to fill the rest of the codex and I believe reluctantly threw in things like helbrutes, forge/maulerfiends and heldrakes. In a perfect world, our codex would have been more filled out by now, but as I said earlier....these decisions happen and execute at a glacial pace. But now that GW seems to be committed with making the god legions unique, separate, and distinct, I would not hedge any bets that going forward we will ever see "borrowing" again. I'm inclined to believe any models currently shared with chaos marines are just placeholders until a suitable new model/unit comes out. Why do world eaters not have cultists? Could be because they have Jakhals. Cultists could end up being replaced by thrall wizard cultists.

In fact, I ponder what we might lose over time. As primaris slowly edge out the first born marines and they slowly lose the classic models, I am constantly wondering when the humble land raider, rhino, predator, vindicator, etc. will disappear for loyalists. And if that happens, what will it mean for the chaos versions? When it comes to the god-legions, I would bet we lose the daemon engines at some point(mauler/forgefiend, defiler, and heldrake), as each god legion starts to receive their own unique daemon engines over time. 

However, I don't feel too worried about the classic tracked vehicles. Per my earlier hypothesis, GW is committed to making chaos marines and particularly the god-legions very unique and distinct from their loyal kin. The ultimate vision for space marine loyal vs. space marine traitor. What 10,000 years of going rogue and the mutating effects of chaos will do with no imperial dogma or codex to hold you back. Back then, chaos marines were just space marines with spikes and daemons. I would guess that anything that sets us apart while not completely losing the "astartes" edge is what the final vision will be from GW. What we have left will be daemon-engines of all types for each god legion, daemon hybrids, and whatever else an unchained imagination can come up with. 

So then, if the plan is to widen the gap between loyal and traitor astartes as far as possible without losing all sense of the "Astartes" part in traitor astartes......loyal marines have their new primaris toys, all their vehicles hover or have had substantial techy upgrades. Traitor astartes still hold on to the old heresy tech with varied warp add-ons. Then it might make sense that we retain the classic tracked heresy-era war vehicles to help with that distinction. It would be awesome if we get newer and modernized kits for the land raider, rhino, predator, vindicator, etc.  This future would mean that a very apparent and obvious difference between the 2. Instead of sharing the land raider chassis, primaris have their repulsors and we keep (hopefully updated) the humble land raider. 

 

Lots of rambling, for sure. 

 

My perfect vision would be that each chaos faction has a toy box of unique units and the only thing shared are some of the classic holdovers from the heresy.
 

Edited September 13 by Ahzek451

[Indy Techwisp]

Right, time to air a concern of mine:

What if we're right that the Rumour Engines were an Automa, but its for Dark Mechanicum and not Thousand Sons?

 

Our late placement in the release schedule plus the edition long hike in points to everything that's not a bird-goat hybrid is making me very concerned that we're being held back specifically until after Disciples of Tzeentch get their AoS 4th release and we're gonna just be given all their new Tzaangors (and maybe a single non-Tzaangor thing like some random Chaos Sorc).

[Ahzek451]

The biggest reason I would bet my sandwich that this thing is for us is because GW all but spells it out in the white dwarf I referenced earlier. Going off memory (as my white dwarf is at home), but it was saying specifically that these ancient automata were relics buried deep in the pyramids of Tizca and T.son sorcerers had fused daemon, magic, and blackstone together specifically to add something to our forces to combat the nulling affect of the Pariah Nexus. 

[Indy Techwisp]

16 minutes ago, Ahzek451 said:

The biggest reason I would bet my sandwich that this thing is for us is because GW all but spells it out in the white dwarf I referenced earlier. Going off memory (as my white dwarf is at home), but it was saying specifically that these ancient automata were relics buried deep in the pyramids of Tizca and T.son sorcerers had fused daemon, magic, and blackstone together specifically to add something to our forces to combat the nulling affect of the Pariah Nexus. 

 

That does make it more comfortable of a TSons thing, yeah.

I'm just starting to get a bit paranoid at this point, that's all.

[Ahzek451]

It will be what it will be. Its been about 10 years since the official T.sons range drop, and it certainly feels like we are in that window of receiving at least a couple new toys to bulk out the army. 
Not sure how long you have been in the hobby but give it about 20+ years and you won't feel paranoia. But you may gain indifference 

[Indy Techwisp]

28 minutes ago, Ahzek451 said:

It will be what it will be. Its been about 10 years since the official T.sons range drop, and it certainly feels like we are in that window of receiving at least a couple new toys to bulk out the army. 
Not sure how long you have been in the hobby but give it about 20+ years and you won't feel paranoia. But you may gain indifference 

I finally bit the bullet and jumped into the hobby around Covid, so I'm still quite new.

[Ahzek451]

19 hours ago, Indy Techwisp said:

I finally bit the bullet and jumped into the hobby around Covid, so I'm still quite new.

Well, welcome to Sortiarius! You jumped in a great time for T.sons. 

[Xenith]

Which white dwarf was that? I must have missed it! 

 

It's kind of interesting to see what GW do. They removed heresy models from the 40k game to apparently track sales better, daemons remain cross-platform as it were, but might be seeing big changes, yet the thousand sons still have 1/3 of their units made up of AoS models. I'd expect some big change there, or an actual 40k teched up tzaangor release incompatible with AoS. Robots would be good, and as we saw from the scarab kit that they had the base tartaros cad files, they now have the base mechanicum robot cad files, so a few mechanical beasts for TS based on them woukd be great, and fits the 'golem' theme of the army.

[Ahzek451]

Issue 501. This got missed by quite a few folks because it's just 4 small paragraphs tucked away in a couple pages of new pariah nexus lore. But once you find it, it's so heavily implied that it might as well be an advertisement. 

 

I can post pictures of the pages in question, but can't remember if that's allowed.

Edited October 27 by Ahzek451

[Xenith]

 

But on a more serious note, small sections are ok to reproduce for the sharing of information, and it's clearly been referenced. Obviously don't share photos of large chunks of the magazine...

Edited October 29 by Xenith

[Ahzek451]

2 hours ago, Xenith said:

 

But on a more serious note, small sections are ok to reproduce for the sharing of information, and it's clearly been referenced. Obviously don't share photos of large chunks of the magazine...

Sounds good, yeah the photos I will dump are cropped photos from my magazine that only show the 4 paragraphs concerning the topic at hand. Gimme a few and I'll slap em on here. 

[Ahzek451]

[Xenith]

Veery interesting! Though imbuing your psychically controlled robots with psy-dampening noctolith/blackstone seems silly...

[Dr. Clock]

1 hour ago, Xenith said:

imbuing your psychically controlled robots with psy-dampening noctolith/blackstone seems silly

So far be it from me to make suggestions based on a video game as 'canon lore', but in SMII there's a 'polarity reversal' method Chaos and Tzeentch in particular seem to be able to pull on Necron tech (and likely Noctilith) to turn it to use. Noctilith / Blackstone seem very much to be latter 40k's unobtainium, and it's an appropriate trope to make use of if - unlike STCs which were kinda the 'big prize' (for humans) for so long - all species may have a use for Blackstone as either fuel for or protection from warp weirdness, it seems. It certainly seems lie they're setting it up not just as Necron 'Nullstone' and the main brake on Chaos, but also as transmutable into '40k Warpstone' as the central conceit of definitely-not-Malal-or-the-Horned-Rat Vashtorr's arc.

 

I do like the part where the Sorceror is stealing AdMech relics, but it also seems a bit suspect that KSons are building robots to fight (the apparent) New God of Chaos Robots? Maybe they're hoping that they can deceptively align their works to those of the Arkifane in order to fool him into submitting to the Grand Scheme? I'd buy it.

 

Cheers,

 

The Good Doctor.

[Dr_Ruminahui]

Yeah, the same reasoning would apply to having a blackstone warpgate on the Nocolith Crown - which wouldn't really make sense if noctolith only worked as a dampener.  So, I think Dr. Clock is right on in describing it as the 40K version warpstone - basicly, your 40K maguffin/unobtainium for warp related shenanigans.

[Ahzek451]

Echoing what the above, indeed Blackstone is used either to enhance or dampen anything warp related. If I would hazard a geuss, the noctilith they are using in these robots are meant to enhance the daemonic part in them to help counteract the noctolith that is polarizing the opposite way. In essence, anywhere else in the galaxy the robots would be enhanced, but if they were mucking about in the pariah nexus they could just be "normal". I doubt any rules would accompany this. 

I'm absolutely stoked either way. Some new toys to play with in mechanical form for the T.sons scratches an itch I've had for many years. I don't think GW is going to model them after any particular robot that we have seen in the mechanicum range for 30k, but perhaps somewhere in between.  

The only way to top it off with this release is if it extended beyond just one unit. A tech sorcerer would be fantastic. 

[The Praetorian of Inwit]

The Thousand Sons should get new kits. A Psyker Dreadnought, an Automata of some sort at least.

 

@Ahzek451 A lot of that I think could happen.

 

I would be very surprised if the end goal for GW isn't to remove shared units from World Eaters/Thousand Sons/Death Guard. I would not be surprised to see ALL the following leave the Thousand Sons eventually:

 

Helbrute

Heldrake

Defiler

Forgefiend

Maulerfiend

Vindicator

Cultists

 

Given how much it is said that the AoS and 40k teams hate sharing miniatures I also wouldn't be surprised to see the Mutalith disappear. I actually think the Mutalith will be removed next year when the new codex drops. 

 

[Indy Techwisp]

20 hours ago, The Praetorian of Inwit said:

Given how much it is said that the AoS and 40k teams hate sharing miniatures I also wouldn't be surprised to see the Mutalith disappear. I actually think the Mutalith will be removed next year when the new codex drops. 

There's people over on the AoS Forums pointing out that currently no-one in 4th can take a Mutalith and that they're worried Disciples of Tzeentch will loose the Tzaangors to 40k.

 

Then again, if we lost the Tzaangors and Mutalith back to AoS and the non-Rhino Chassis things shared with Base CSM we'd essentially be retconning our whole 8th Ed wave and over half of our 7th ed launch wave we'd pretty much be crippled in usability unless we had an equally large release wave to replace that stuff, which seems very unlikely with how GW have previously treated TSons in prior editions.

[Xenith]

More fuel for the fire? Cybernetica in TS Legion colours...

 

[Ahzek451]

40 minutes ago, Xenith said:

More fuel for the fire? Cybernetica in TS Legion colours...

 

Love to see GW highlight this. It's Pre-existing fuel anyway. The relationship t.sons had with Zhao-Arkhad in 30k has been around for awhile and often goes unnoticed unless you had the old black HH books. The t.sons had a healthy relationship with the mechanicum (Zhao anyway) and is a big reason we had castellax Achea. We also had a close relationship with a titan legion, a big part of it housed and stationed on propero Legio Xestobiax and took part in fending off Legio Mortis that was sent alongside the space wolves and custodes in the battle of Prospero. De-railed a bit there, but just wanted to point out that we have a large invested interest in machines and some might wonder why we are getting them while others would say, its a wonder why not sooner. 

I have seen and heard the rumblings of GW practices wishing to keep things separated for tracking/sales purposes and I do believe it to an extent. GW still has plenty of cross-system unit sharing to this day. But I would be utterly shocked if Tzaangors were removed from Disciples of Tzeentch. They are easily a core unit for the army and in my mind, would be akin to removing horrors from daemons of Tzeentch. I don't see tzaangors going anywhere with either game systems. But they could do with a reboxing and do something with the chainswords and laspistols.