What do we need in 10:ed?

[Indy Techwisp]

23 hours ago, The Praetorian of Inwit said:

Sadly, I don't think the TS have anyone in the studio that is their Champion so to speak. 

While I understand people find Tzaangors being pushed in media frustrating it's not like TS have a very big roster of units to showcase. In Space Marine 2 I'm guessing GW didn't want then showing things like a Rubric Dread because there's no model. Hence we get Tzaangors. 

I mean there is technically other TSons options that didn't show up in Space Marine 2.
There's only one kind of Sorcerer enemy, for instance.
There's also the fact that they are summoning Daemons for the plot, so adding in Tzeentch Daemons would work as well.

There's also Soulreaper Rubrics and Warpflamer SoTs they could have as Special enemies.

 

23 hours ago, The Praetorian of Inwit said:

I do expect the Vindicator to go. 

I hope not, it took me nearly a year to actually get my hands on one.

[Ahzek451]

On 2/3/2025 at 4:43 PM, The Praetorian of Inwit said:

I do expect the Vindicator to go. 

Why's that?

[The Praetorian of Inwit]

Just a hunch, based on how GW has slowly been removing shared units out the Legions.

 

I think by 12th only the Predator, Land Raider & Rhino will be left.

[Special Officer Doofy]

1 hour ago, The Praetorian of Inwit said:

Just a hunch, based on how GW has slowly been removing shared units out the Legions.

 

I think by 12th only the Predator, Land Raider & Rhino will be left.

 

And helbrute. I don't think the crab will make it though. I know I won't lose sleep over it. 

[The Praetorian of Inwit]

I honestly wouldn't be surprised to see the Helbrute go from EC and TS when a Rubric and Sonic Dreadnoughts are available. Though it could well take 20 years before GW gets off their ass to make them. 

[Ahzek451]

Indeed, I expect nothing less than a trickle affect for the legions forevermore, 1 new addition per edition. 2 if your lucky. 

That being said, I would be happy if the legions shared the same old tracked vehicles from the heresy and nothing else. It would be nice to see a new kit for land raider/predator/rhino/vindicator with a very high effort upgrade sprue with bits that match each of the legions. If they were smart they would just re-package the heresy vehicles they already have with said new sprue. I can see the daemon engines go away over time and be replaced by unique god-specific ones. This road already paved by the death guard a bit. I would not be sad at all if the hellbrute left. I've always disliked the very  shoe-horned in lore reason why we have them. I see them as placeholders until the rubric/sorcerer dread shows up. 

[The Praetorian of Inwit]

So, with Emperors Children datasheets confirmed I think it is certain now the Vindicator is going. I think we should also expect the TS to lose the Helbrute and the Predator. Given the range is smaller than EC - even with Tzaangors - the Forgefiend might survive. 

 

This is perhaps a worst case scenario but would be in line with EC in datasheet terms:

 

Exalted Sorcerer

Exalted Sorcerer on Disc

Daemon Prince

Daemon Prince with Wings

Infernal Master

Chaos Rhino

Chaos Land Raider

Rubric Marines

Scarab Occult Terminators

Tzaangors

Tzaangor Enlightened

Tzaangors on Discs

Chaos Spawn

Forgefiend

Maulerfiend

Heldrake

Blue/Pink Horrors

Screamers

Flamers

Lord of Change

Karios Fateweaver

New Automata

 

22 Datasheets. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Tokugawa]

How could you skip Mr.M and Mr.A??

[The Praetorian of Inwit]

Because I am foolish. Haha, completely forget when I was typing that. Well, that is 24 datasheets then. 

[Indy Techwisp]

On 2/25/2025 at 7:41 PM, The Praetorian of Inwit said:

So, with Emperors Children datasheets confirmed I think it is certain now the Vindicator is going. I think we should also expect the TS to lose the Helbrute and the Predator. Given the range is smaller than EC - even with Tzaangors - the Forgefiend might survive. 

 

This is perhaps a worst case scenario but would be in line with EC in datasheet terms:

 

Exalted Sorcerer

Exalted Sorcerer on Disc

Daemon Prince

Daemon Prince with Wings

Infernal Master

Chaos Rhino

Chaos Land Raider

Rubric Marines

Scarab Occult Terminators

Tzaangors

Tzaangor Enlightened

Tzaangors on Discs

Chaos Spawn

Forgefiend

Maulerfiend

Heldrake

Blue/Pink Horrors

Screamers

Flamers

Lord of Change

Karios Fateweaver

New Automata

 

22 Datasheets. 

 

Slightly different list.

I think we're getting cut down to this:

Magnus

Ahriman

Ahriman (on Disk)

Exalted Sorcerer

Exalted Sorcerer (on Disk)

Infernal Master

Tzaangor Shaman

TSons Sorcerer (EC kept the imported Sorc)

TSons Daemon Prince

TSons Daemon Prince (with Wings)

Rubric Marines

Tzaangors

Scarab Occult Terminators

[New Psy-Automa]

Tzaangor Enlightened

Mutalith Vortex Beast

Chaos Spawn

Forgefiend (we're the shooty Cult Marines, so I think we'll lose the Maulerfiend)

TSons Rhino

TSons Landraider

TSons Heldrake

Blue Horrors

Pink Horrors

Screamers

Lord of Change

Kairos Fateweaver

 

For 26 Datasheets total.

 

Lost units are:

TSons Sorc in Terminator Armour

TSons Vindicator

TSons Predator Destructor

TSons Predator Annihilator

TSons Helbrute

TSons Maulerfiend

TSons Defiler

TSons Cultists

 

This is 8 units lost for 6 units gained (5 of which will be Detachment locked) meaning a net Negative of -2 units.

Edited March 1 by Indy Techwisp

[TheMawr]

Came looking for an active topic like this as I just noticed that the Tzaangor enlightened are not in the thousand sons section anymore, they used to be until recently.

And then my head went spinning wild.

 

When talking automata people expect this :

 

Now the rumor engines associated with this :

 

:
( notice there is a fleshy/organic element on the top right corner.. and a flamer haf obscured.)

 

Im not certain this is a foot ( because it doesnt seem to end at the base, it seems one piece with the floor, and there is a white thing down there, though it could be a skull.) but if it is a foot, it is a rather small one when you compare detailing and brush strokes. when you also look at how the paint hits the recesses, this is one single piece of plastic, not different bits. Its very unlikely for a big robot foot to be one piece.

 

I am not convinced that these are (big) Thousand sons robots, everything seems to be more human sized. And the tattered bone paintjob is nowhere in the thousand sons range. Because of all these reasons I always assumed it was (beastsnagga) Orks.

 

However

 

Since I dont think they remove many things that where already there without a replacement ( but can be proven wrong.) what if Tzaangor enlightened are replaced by the psy automata and then I had to think about one of my metal tzeentch miniatures STILL in my unpainted piles for decades... this one :

 

 

There are different design teams, some indeed do like to look at Horus heresy for inspiration ( like the 8th edition Deathguard design lead, who is a fan of HH afaik.) while others are more likely to focus on 40ks own past elements or ignore completely what FW does ( Jes goodwin for example.)

 

If the designer for the TS likes to look to the past, and wanted to reinvent the above classic.. turning it into daemon/organic/machine thing ( as the psy automata are described.) is a very solid approach.

Meanwhile the Studio painters too would then harken back to the bonyness of that concept as opposed to a cleaner paintjob someone would come up with when basing everything off Thousand Sons 40k or Horus Heresy designs.

 

 

Very likely Im looking too deep into it, but wanted to share the thought.

( personally, while I do love that old one, I think he is better reinvented as a character type, maybe even one that takes care of psyautomata, daemon engines and machines.

hmm... maybe... )

[TheMawr]

Though

It could also be these are the psy automata rumor engines instead :

 

 

Aetherfire and Boltcannon respectively

[Dr_Ruminahui]

The foot is from the new Khornate cultists, I think.  Good spot on the claw, though.

[Indy Techwisp]

10 hours ago, Dr_Ruminahui said:

The foot is from the new Khornate cultists, I think.  Good spot on the claw, though.

None of the Khorne Cultists have the stripes on the leg, as someone helpfully pointed out in the thread for the Killteam.

 

21 hours ago, TheMawr said:

Came looking for an active topic like this as I just noticed that the Tzaangor enlightened are not in the thousand sons section anymore, they used to be until recently.

And then my head went spinning wild.

 

When talking automata people expect this :

 

Now the rumor engines associated with this :

 

:
( notice there is a fleshy/organic element on the top right corner.. and a flamer haf obscured.)

 

Im not certain this is a foot ( because it doesnt seem to end at the base, it seems one piece with the floor, and there is a white thing down there, though it could be a skull.) but if it is a foot, it is a rather small one when you compare detailing and brush strokes. when you also look at how the paint hits the recesses, this is one single piece of plastic, not different bits. Its very unlikely for a big robot foot to be one piece.

 

I am not convinced that these are (big) Thousand sons robots, everything seems to be more human sized. And the tattered bone paintjob is nowhere in the thousand sons range. Because of all these reasons I always assumed it was (beastsnagga) Orks.

 

However

 

Since I dont think they remove many things that where already there without a replacement ( but can be proven wrong.) what if Tzaangor enlightened are replaced by the psy automata and then I had to think about one of my metal tzeentch miniatures STILL in my unpainted piles for decades... this one :

 

 

There are different design teams, some indeed do like to look at Horus heresy for inspiration ( like the 8th edition Deathguard design lead, who is a fan of HH afaik.) while others are more likely to focus on 40ks own past elements or ignore completely what FW does ( Jes goodwin for example.)

 

If the designer for the TS likes to look to the past, and wanted to reinvent the above classic.. turning it into daemon/organic/machine thing ( as the psy automata are described.) is a very solid approach.

Meanwhile the Studio painters too would then harken back to the bonyness of that concept as opposed to a cleaner paintjob someone would come up with when basing everything off Thousand Sons 40k or Horus Heresy designs.

 

 

Very likely Im looking too deep into it, but wanted to share the thought.

( personally, while I do love that old one, I think he is better reinvented as a character type, maybe even one that takes care of psyautomata, daemon engines and machines.

hmm... maybe... )

I doubt Tzaangor enlightened are getting removed, if only because that would mean we're not only losing half our release wave of units but also at least a 3rd of our 8th ed additions.

Regarding the Automa, I don't think we're getting Castellax Robots.

Instead, I think we may get a Psychic version of the Thallax:

It's the right size to be a 4-man unit as it's rumoured to be.

[Ahzek451]

At this juncture, I'd be willing to bet Magnus's remaining eye that the codex book covers and new robots will be revealed at Adepticon in a couple weeks. The next couple weeks being filled by the remaining emperors children stuff and whatever else. At least it would be a nice surprise particularly for me as I will be there . And very close to my Bday. Come on Tzeentch, be good to us.  

[TheMawr]

On 3/3/2025 at 3:47 PM, Indy Techwisp said:

None of the Khorne Cultists have the stripes on the leg, as someone helpfully pointed out in the thread for the Killteam.

 

I doubt Tzaangor enlightened are getting removed, if only because that would mean we're not only losing half our release wave of units but also at least a 3rd of our 8th ed additions.

Regarding the Automa, I don't think we're getting Castellax Robots.

Instead, I think we may get a Psychic version of the Thallax:

It's the right size to be a 4-man unit as it's rumoured to be.

 

Was checking back the video as I was sure it was said it was 2 sets of 2 psy Automata wich would fit more with the size of the one I posted ( btw, from the little fluff blurb on them I dont think they are based on any existing models at all.) but yes in the last rumor video he is saying its a unit size of 4 and called Setaar ( the sound of it.)

 

If that is written as Zetar then maybe there is more hints ( likely not, and likely its Tzetaar,)

GW does love its throwbacks :

 

And then doing something like that for a tzeentch force would actually be a dual throwback as that robot looks like a cousin from one of my metal tzeentch champions ( I see it online but the GW studio painted image link doesnt work from the wikia, and I dont like linking to other people's images without consent.)

 

Though honestly, it would be a missed oppurtunity if that isnt a unit of 3... 9 heads total.

 

 

[The Praetorian of Inwit]

I actually wouldn't put it past GW to make the Automata have some sort of Tzaangor theme simply to troll. Somewhere inside that company just loves TS to be the Tzaangor faction. 

 

I think the standard Sorcerer will go. EC kept it because they don't have their own yet. But the DG lost it and got their own (Malignant Plaguecaster) and the TS already have Exalted Sorcerers with and without Disks and the Infernal Master.

 

 

[Rain]

22 hours ago, The Praetorian of Inwit said:

I actually wouldn't put it past GW to make the Automata have some sort of Tzaangor theme simply to troll. Somewhere inside that company just loves TS to be the Tzaangor faction. 

 

I think the standard Sorcerer will go. EC kept it because they don't have their own yet. But the DG lost it and got their own (Malignant Plaguecaster) and the TS already have Exalted Sorcerers with and without Disks and the Infernal Master.

 

 

After making the Khorne Killteam be “Jackhals, but with metal legs” I would not put Tzaangor battlesuits past the glue fume aficionados they must have planning Chaos releases.

Edited March 8 by Rain

[Ahzek451]

Should be hearing something about it next week at Adepticon. Current rumor has been repeated that they will come in a box of exalted, SoT, and rubrics. Not a tzaangor to be spotted. Also, Spring for the chaos legions with Thousand sons being last. But again, really hoping the rumors will be put to rest by next week. 

[TheMawr]

21 hours ago, Ahzek451 said:

Should be hearing something about it next week at Adepticon. Current rumor has been repeated that they will come in a box of exalted, SoT, and rubrics. Not a tzaangor to be spotted. Also, Spring for the chaos legions with Thousand sons being last. But again, really hoping the rumors will be put to rest by next week. 

 

Thats because Tzaangor will obviously be in the second boxset, Brand new Technomancer solo character with a box chockfull of tzaangor.. and to make the robots from the other box usefull.. you gonna need that technomancer :p

 

More seriously, wondering if its going to be a 2 and 1 or 1 and 2 release.. whereas 2 of the codexes are released at the same time with a solo release ( one of them Deathguard) and the third seperately, but with slightly more meat to it.

The box set contents rumor does make it sound as if its just the robots for TS, wich is quite unprecedented, I think there always has been at least a character model with mandatory releases, but if there is more releases its unprecedented its not part of the box... Hell maybe the above joke isnt far off at all, and the mandatory solo character is either tzaangor or daemon  or related to those and thus unfit for this box theme and coming along on its own or in a second box ( there IS precedence for multiple boxsets for the codex releases : CSM and Imperial agents.)

[Archaeinox]

Valrak said he heard 4x robots in our box. It would make sense for 60mm robots (2 boxes of 2 robots), but not for 40mm or 50mm robots since the trend with that stuff is to do 3 or 6.

 

100% ok with this as it is more likely that a 60mm robot will provide us with sufficient firepower options to fill gaps that losing a predator variant or vindicator might. When Caballistic Rituals are overhauled, I personally will be more welcoming of the daemons as adding them currently just handicaps us further. 

 

Very excited for next Wednesday's reveals. I saw it was a scheduled slot March 26.

 

[Ahzek451]

I'll be at the event and will post as soon as I see it, if it is presented. 

[Archaeinox]

On 3/2/2025 at 11:12 AM, TheMawr said:

Though

It could also be these are the psy automata rumor engines instead :

 

 

 

I had another thought. The reason these robots are being introduced is they were a way to counter all the anti-psyker shenanigans happening in the current 40k hot zones. If that's the case, they won't be psychic at all. This is probably another reason Cabal Rituals might change. Why introduce a new plastic kit to us if we are discouraged from taking it since they aren't psykers at all. It might be nice to have something like that to twist the army's rituals on its head. This will open up more varied lists, possibly. 

 

 

[Karhedron]

9 hours ago, Archaeinox said:

This is probably another reason Cabal Rituals might change. Why introduce a new plastic kit to us if we are discouraged from taking it since they aren't psykers at all.

 

Entirely possible. GW were not afraid to complete rework the Eldar's core faction ability so I see no reason 1KSons would not get something completely different.

 

The other possibility is that they will follow the Eldar Wraith construct pattern. You get a unit which does not benefit much from the faction ability but provides a key capability that is rare elsewhere in the roster so you might want to include 1-2 units just for what they bring natively. They might even provide one detachment that focuses on using these guys on mass for a different feel of army.

 

Just spit balling here really but it is fun to speculate.

[Archaeinox]

That makes sense to have a detachment with additional focus on those robots. Maybe an enhancement for a character to make nearby Automatons more potent than they might be in another detachment. 

 

Those sorts of things are great, because other detachments can still take the robots as an option anyway if they wish. 

 

Holding out hope for an Exiles sort of detachment. Something that provides exclusive benefits to all the psykers in the detachment, but no real benefit to Magnus (although you can still include him)