Are CSM Cult marine better then their own legions

[ChargingSoll]

Hey just going through the rules of the chaos marine codex and noticed that the cult marines get the first half of the mark bonus. So plague marines lose the contagions effect but gain the cannot be wounded on a 4 or 2 when the lowest requirement (how I simplify it) ability from the nurgle Mark and gain the let the galaxy burn ability. They still keep the other abilities like the -1D and remorseless but no legion trait. 

 

Same for the other cult marines as well that can benefit from being in army with each other. Just wondering if this encourages anyone to bring them in their army. 

Edited November 5, 2022 by ChargingSoll

[Toldavf]

Yes and no, they are slightly more expensive due to having to pay for the mark.  It's a shame they cant have icons though. 

[Kaiju Soze]

I don't know about better, but the warpflamer Rubrics I run in my Red Corsairs list seem scarier to my opponents.  No innate invulnerable save can be quite painful, though.

[DesuVult]

Rubrics do seem to be better in the CSM codex in some legions.

[Maggotlord]

Well, your cult units do not benefit from Legion abilities. 

 

That being said, I think Plague Marines with the Black Rune are ace. 

 

[Kaiju Soze]

They may not benefit from legion traits but they can still qualify for stratagems.

[MasterDeath]

5 hours ago, Maggotlord said:

Well, your cult units do not benefit from Legion abilities. 

 

That being said, I think Plague Marines with the Black Rune are ace. 

 

I used a shooty plague Marine Squad for cursed despoilers experiments. As my possessed hogged the rune, the plague marines got the apostle Support. -1 to Hit and light Cover. 

[Freakshow668]

I often use a squad of plague marines with my Iron Warriors. They always perform very well as a durable mid-table objective holder. Never played as Death Guard though, so no idea how they compare, but I've always been very pleased with them.

[Relic]

As mentioned - it is Legion dependent, but some strategems really help. For example I have used Khorne Berzerkers with my Iron Warriors and the strats for -1 damage, auto pass morale and 5+ FNP vs mortal wounds all mitigate weaknesses of the unit. In World Eaters they have obsec and an extra attack, but i've never found Berzerkers issue taking objectives or killing what is in front of them. Getting there and surviving the hit back is their weakness! 

[Xenith]

This is something I thought also - here's an older Rubric specific discussion:

 

Gaining Let the Galaxy Burn is amazing on warpflamer units, but that might be the extent of what rubrics get. They don't get cabal points or the icon, and cannot take the CSM Icon of Tzeentch. Losing the 5++ Is hard, and weirdly rubrics in CSM armies always had the 5++, so I consider this a design flaw in the already rushed TS book. 

 

On 8/15/2022 at 2:55 PM, Xenith said:

So in CSM Rubrics 

Gain
+2 shots per flame weapon
Mark of Tzeentch (ignore first failed save)

Lose:
5++
Obsec

 

[DesuVult]

Iron Warriors I feel are among the top winners for bringing cult marines.  They can replicate or replace strategems that DG or TSons like to see.

[Cpt.Danjou]

When I think about bringing cult marines it always boils down to, do they bring anything that other units can't do better. They do look cool, and I have both Plague Marines and Rubrics painted up as Iron Warriors. But what do they really bring to the table, and what will have to get changed out? PM are slow marines that are slightly tougher, which with the right gear can be great in CC, except that they lost their aura, and that really is not great, they fight for a spot with Termies and possessed, which both are beasts in cc, are faster and both are equally or better for taking wounds, sure they are both more expensive. Rubrics, I guess that the warpflamer variant can be great for an objective holder in the backfield, but Havocs with reaper chaincannons are better at that, for 18 more points. The rubrics bring a sorcerer which can buff the the rubrics so that's good, I guess.

 

 

I have never thought about bringing Berzerkers, as I don't have the models, waiting for the new ones to get into the stores, I will get them. And Noise marines, I have not thought about them, because friends of mine all get pale when thinking back on my EC daemon bomb 3.5 chaos lists, and I don't want to give them heart attacks.  

 

I can't remember if Cult Marines are Obsec, when not in their respective lists.

 

Just my thoughts.

 

Cpt.Danjou

 

[Kaiju Soze]

Slaves to Darkness units do not get Obsec in CSM lists, I believe.

 

I've been running a unit of warpflamer Rubrics in my Red Corsairs, and the very intimidating number of automatic hits they throw out can be both effective and make the unit a msssive target. That second part often spares other units a lot of pain.