2nd Edition Quiet Council, Sister of Silence tactica

[SkimaskMohawk]

Yea the wordings terrible, especially when it comes to the deployment aspects of it. 

 

I think the raw argument technically allows for deployment and multi-joining, but not being able to do the same thing during the course of the game makes me feel like it's not the intended interaction. 

 

[Mandragola]

I agree it’s probably not what the writers intended and therefore it shouldn’t be done. Honestly though in this case I’m not sure what the RAI is. Do they mean to say that Vestals can’t start the game attached to other units and have to form an all-vestal unit on deployment? If they do intend that, why do the Vestals do it? Why wouldn’t they go and do their jobs before the start of the game?

 

Even if you just take a single Vestal and start her on her own (presumably well-hidden) her ability to join any Imperial unit to give them FNP and psychic immunity is extremely powerful for 35 points. 
 

What I actually plan to do is take a single Vestal and start her in an acquisitor with my knight abyssal and some Raptora. Currently I think I can do that, and I think she makes the acquisitor scout (though I’m not sure about that one as it’s not her DT) but I don’t feel completely confident that it’s intended to work that way. 

[Noserenda]

Yeah the Vestal deployment thing is a big pain, i figured ill have to deploy them behind the Kharons and have them scout move embark, or move off to join other units anyhow. It certainly feels like a screw up in wording somewhere, though i doubt FW will fix it.

Silent judges are good but i dont think they are good enough to spam, or at least i can see a use for all the Anathema HQs (Bar the poor furies) so would prefer to have them rather than multiples.

[Etruscan]

I had a question on Oblivion Knight Cadre loadouts, can you have a mixed loadout or does every model have to take the same weapon? 

[Noserenda]

34 minutes ago, Etruscan said:

I had a question on Oblivion Knight Cadre loadouts, can you have a mixed loadout or does every model have to take the same weapon? 

Oblivion Knights must all have the same melee weapons by my reading, and the sergeant can have a pistol. 

 

[Etruscan]

9 minutes ago, Noserenda said:

Oblivion Knights must all have the same melee weapons by my reading, and the sergeant can have a pistol. 

 

Thanks, that’s what I suspected but I read a review elsewhere that suggested mixing up the loadouts was possible. Seems strange with a fixed loadout for an elite squad…

[Noserenda]

Yeah the whole Elites section feels a bit weird tbh, and Oblivion Knights especially dont feel quite, "elite" enough. 

[Mandragola]

Oblivion Knights are still WS5 power weapons at 175 points for 5. Not bad, in my opinion. Ten of them chuck out 30 attacks on the charge, which is the same as 15 Vigilators (185 points) would, but they get more hits thanks to their better WS. But the Vigilators are Line and you get 15 bodies instead of 10, which is quite a big advantage. WS5 does protect them a bit against return attacks.

 

Giving them power weapons is interesting. They have pistols so will get a bonus attack, which they don't get with the greatsword. Mauls are mostly better than greatswords I think. And while you do have to give them all power weapons, you don't have to give them all the same power weapons. Some sort of mixture of mauls and axes might work best, giving you a four attacks each at either S5 AP3 or S4 AP2 at I1. Spears are an option too, to get S4 AP3 at I5.

 

325 gets you 10 of them in an Acquisitor. I think that's fairly good. Access to the Acquisitor is probably what makes them useful to be honest, as it remains perhaps the most efficient delivery system in the game.

Edited November 16, 2022 by Mandragola

[Noserenda]

Hmmm i had managed to overlook the extra attack with power weapons somehow :D I think their major competition is Raptora/Questora cadres though tbh, as they have significant advantages for their points, (wound, Chosen, debatably weapons, slotless) and obviously you have Vigilators if you want something cheaper/scoring.

Also, for some reason Oblivion knights dont have psyk out grenades? Im assuming thats a misprint though, no wait, most units dont have psyk out grenades? Thats an odd choice for one of their iconic bits of kit...

Also, they arent consistent in the ordering of special rules and wargear between entries which makes comparisons mildly infuriating, for example id missed that Oblivion knights do get Voidsheen cloaks before in a comparison.

[Mandragola]

As I've been putting lists together I am finding some pretty scary combinations you can make with SoS and many other things.

 

The basic issue is that adding a cheap SoS character to a unit provides all sorts of buffs. They're stubborn, they hate things and you become immune to telepathy silliness with any of them, but it doesn't stop there. A 35 point Vestal gives her unit FNP and scout. An Abyssal Knight or Centura can make a model WS1, which is devastating against dreadnoughts and scary characters. A Silent Judge makes the unit count as 12"(!) further away, gives you a VP for slay the Warlord and prevents enemy reactions. A silent fury is a bit worse than a silent judge but with an 18" move can happily go in squads of dark furies, or whatever.

 

Where things get really silly is if you have a SoS warlord with the Maiden of Sorrows trait. It doesn't really matter what character she is but the point is to add her to a big unit of terminators, Custodes or whatever. Give them a Vestal too for FNP and scout if you want. You create a death star where the enemy gets actively punished for shooting you, by adding to their movement and attacks. I could take a unit of 15 RG Deliverers (WS5 Termies, essentially), add a Cataphracti Praetor and set them off waddling up the field. The enemy would effectively be punished for attacking them, which of course creates a few problems if a unit like that is coming at you.

 

Taking a SoS warlord means that any marines will be an allied detachment. That isn't as restrictive as it might seem though if you're going for a death star since it will tend to eat up a lot of points. You shouldn't have too much trouble filling out your force.

[Etruscan]

I was really hoping we would have had some indication or teases of new kits by now. Sort of surprising to include so many new units in the Codex and no sign of new models.

[Noserenda]

Yeah they havent even acknowledged the new rules afaik... Its really bizarre. Like something they were legally obligated to include but didnt want to? Its in some ways a brand new army, with all new choices, even for the existing units! But barely a word...

[Etruscan]

Did you the Warhammer Community post just now? There’s a cyber mastiff, I assume this can only be for the Sisters. Looks like we might get some previews this week!

[Mandragola]

Possibly. I’ve heard that the next kill team box is going to be arbitrators vs dark Eldar. If so, that dog would fit perfectly into an arbitrator team. 
 

You could definitely use it in a SoS army though, regardless of who it’s been built for. 
 

it’s strange that we haven’t seen any more releases for SoS. I hope we do, though personally I’m not sure they’ll come. 

Edited January 23, 2023 by Mandragola

[Etruscan]

Crap I didn’t realise there was a new Kill Team coming out. Oh well. Got all excited over nada it would seem

[bluedestiny]

For allied Sisters, would you take Krole or a Silent Judge. It'll be either allied with Custodes or IW.

[Mandragola]

12 hours ago, bluedestiny said:

For allied Sisters, would you take Krole or a Silent Judge. It'll be either allied with Custodes or IW.

Think about what other units you want to bring. A Silent Judge is cool but means you won't be able to bring most of the sword-swinging sisters, due to the Chambers rule. Krole gives you access to them but not to some of the shooty stuff.

 

Otherwise both are good. Krole is a beast, which might not be what you need in a Custodes army where everyone is a beast. The Silent Judge gives you that sweet extra VP for killing a Warlord and makes her unit count as 12" further away when shot at, which could be useful in both armies.

[Noserenda]

Yup, Mandragola is spot on. Silent Judge is great if you have a big shooty unit that doesnt want return reactions too on top of the distance boost and Krole brings a few other tricks on top of her unparalleled beatstickery like a 6" range increase though she will usually be close up it might push a careless opponent out of rapid fire range or similar.

I am vaguely hoping we might get some Sister news at Lvo but i doubt it, they still havent really acknowledged the Sisters list expansion after all, its insane.

[bluedestiny]

On 11/16/2022 at 6:33 AM, Noserenda said:

Yeah the Vestal deployment thing is a big pain, i figured ill have to deploy them behind the Kharons and have them scout move embark, or move off to join other units anyhow. It certainly feels like a screw up in wording somewhere, though i doubt FW will fix it.

Silent judges are good but i dont think they are good enough to spam, or at least i can see a use for all the Anathema HQs (Bar the poor furies) so would prefer to have them rather than multiples.

 

Damn just noticed and checked you can't scout move embark or disembark vehicle.

[Gorgoff]

13 hours ago, bluedestiny said:

 

Damn just noticed and checked you can't scout move embark or disembark vehicle.

Because it isn't a move it is a re-deployment. People should stop calling it a scout move. 

[Etruscan]

So...what are the chances that new Sisters models make an appearance at Adepticon next week? 

 

Who am I kidding, we all know it's going to be more Heresy tanks .

 

I've been putting off converting more Sisters units because at some point the new models will drop and I'll want to go back and redo everything.

 

I realised I'd also love to see some head upgrades to diversify the range we currently have.

 

Anyway, out of interest how are you kitting out your various Sisters units?

[Noserenda]

So with half a dozen recent games under my belt with a mostly pure Sisters list i have some ideas on the units ive been using :D Worth noting all my opponents agreed to "common sense" FAQs fixing what feels like obvious errors with missing keywords, options and Vestal deployment, ymmv.


HQ 

Knight Abyssal, Knight Centura
The Oblivion HQs have been tough cookies, whilst my Centura has seemingly been cursed to roll bad saves at bad times, the Abyssal has been terrifying opponents, especially with Maiden of Sorrow, which needs a little finesse but is terrifying once its up and running. I have been using a whip on mine but i think ill switch to paragon blade for reliability and not letting punk sergeants tank half my wounds, dont underestimate precision strikes too! 

Im not sure pistols are a wise investment, they were almost never fired in order to minimise enemy reactions.

Silent Judge
The Judge has been a handy support character for my expurgators, ive been running expensive with grenade launcher and fist but neither saw any particularly effective usage. Im thinking the Judge might be more useful backing up a Raptora death star to stop overwatch and the like, might try that next.

Raptora Cadre

Very tasty and reliably devastating when they land, but overwatch and instant death are extremely common and they take a toll. One power fist per unit has been handy to get around 2+ saves fairly reliably, and by I1 if you have a Maiden of Sorrow warlord they will usually be rolling a bunch of dice. They are soo expensive to bring multiples though :( 

Like the Oblivion HQs pistols are a risky investment, not sure if i would, though if bringing a Judge along she avoids that most of the time.

Elites
Knight Vestal Covenant
I ran some with needle pistols and power swords in all my melee units and they were pretty clutch, a little damage output, a couple of pins dished out when i dared shoot and a fair bit of damage mitigated, instant death is super common for t3 though, so it wasnt as great as i hoped. Probably still keep using them though, the 2+ save alone is handy for taking big ap 3 ID hits.

Troops
Prosecutor Cadre
I ran a couple of small squads with Assault needlers and they were consistently pretty useful but nearly always dead :D Its a lot of shots thrown out and pinning is great when it works, they were also my best answer to enemy dreadnoughts, killing a couple along the way and consistently pinging off wounds even with reroll successful wounds and a 2+ save.

Vigilator Cadre
Massed swords! These are most useful for drawing out horrific overwatch reactions and the like as instant death is broadly irrelevant to them and even a few survivors can inflict a lot of damage with execution blades. Im not sure i always used them to best advantage though, and their transport was consistently picked off. Id definitely want another squad next time though.

Dedicated Transport

Kharon pattern Acquisitor
Ran a trio of these mounting meltas over my games and they were always fun, even if they were too close to an exploding knight far too often, ive learned to spread them out to avoid that! They are so damn fast they can redeploy almost anywhere quickly enough anyway and in theory their firepower is the best AT we have, though my luck on that front was appalling.  Still essential! 

Fast Attack

Subjugator Cadre
Ran a couple of small units with snares, great fun! (For me) Though if the enemy actually decides to kill them they evaporate they are rarely annoying enough to be a high target priority, in all my games my best targets were jump packs and other fast targets so i never stopped anything dead but i have high hopes one day lol. Having a power spear makes them a bully threat to little enemy units and the like, though overwatch keeps heavy weapons safe (bah!)

Heavy Support

Sanctioner Cadre
Two maxed units in most of my lists and they were always good, though id rather have 4 units of 5 than two tens, slots suck. Dishing out pins and removing sergeants, special troops and the like was consistently useful, in a tight spot they put a few wounds on dreads and they never had nothing to do, s5 rifles means they can menace lighter vehicles too so remember that! 

Expurgator Cadre
Finally our heavy weapons unit, i ran 10x Missile launchers with a Silent judge and in some matches they did some great damage, though mostly to other heavy weapon squads as missile launchers were rarely much of a threat to vehicles, they did make a librarian lead squad of elites avoid their flank entirely to avoid psyk out missiles though :D 

The Judge meant a lot of counter fire was out of range and stopped reactions (except dreads! beware fearless!) but noone assaulted them really because heavy weapon overwatch is mean, so perhaps shes best elsewhere? ech.


Overall i had 2 close losses, 2 wins one messy annihilation and one i could have won if i didnt run out of units first, playing the scenario can help even against tank armies and overwhelming firepower :D 

So thats an update on my recent thoughts, might be a bit messy as im tired and hot lol has anyone else been playing games?

 

[Ripper.McGuirl]

Great run down! I am contemplating running my Drukhari models as Sisters so this was interesting. 
Have you used them in Zone Mortalis much? I feel like all the needle weapons would be a little more valuable with less return fire coming at ya.

[Noserenda]

I played a tonne of ZM in 1st edition and it really plays to Sisters strengths and avoids a bunch of their weaknesses, i think thats pretty true in 2nd too though the newer version isnt as inspiring, though dreadnoughts i suspect will still be a problem! 

[Cadmus Tyro]

On 9/4/2023 at 4:36 PM, Noserenda said:

So with half a dozen recent games under my belt with a mostly pure Sisters list i have some ideas on the units ive been using :D Worth noting all my opponents agreed to "common sense" FAQs fixing what feels like obvious errors with missing keywords, options and Vestal deployment, ymmv.


HQ 

Knight Abyssal, Knight Centura
The Oblivion HQs have been tough cookies, whilst my Centura has seemingly been cursed to roll bad saves at bad times, the Abyssal has been terrifying opponents, especially with Maiden of Sorrow, which needs a little finesse but is terrifying once its up and running. I have been using a whip on mine but i think ill switch to paragon blade for reliability and not letting punk sergeants tank half my wounds, dont underestimate precision strikes too! 

Im not sure pistols are a wise investment, they were almost never fired in order to minimise enemy reactions.

Silent Judge
The Judge has been a handy support character for my expurgators, ive been running expensive with grenade launcher and fist but neither saw any particularly effective usage. Im thinking the Judge might be more useful backing up a Raptora death star to stop overwatch and the like, might try that next.

Raptora Cadre

Very tasty and reliably devastating when they land, but overwatch and instant death are extremely common and they take a toll. One power fist per unit has been handy to get around 2+ saves fairly reliably, and by I1 if you have a Maiden of Sorrow warlord they will usually be rolling a bunch of dice. They are soo expensive to bring multiples though :( 

Like the Oblivion HQs pistols are a risky investment, not sure if i would, though if bringing a Judge along she avoids that most of the time.

Elites
Knight Vestal Covenant
I ran some with needle pistols and power swords in all my melee units and they were pretty clutch, a little damage output, a couple of pins dished out when i dared shoot and a fair bit of damage mitigated, instant death is super common for t3 though, so it wasnt as great as i hoped. Probably still keep using them though, the 2+ save alone is handy for taking big ap 3 ID hits.

Troops
Prosecutor Cadre
I ran a couple of small squads with Assault needlers and they were consistently pretty useful but nearly always dead :D Its a lot of shots thrown out and pinning is great when it works, they were also my best answer to enemy dreadnoughts, killing a couple along the way and consistently pinging off wounds even with reroll successful wounds and a 2+ save.

Vigilator Cadre
Massed swords! These are most useful for drawing out horrific overwatch reactions and the like as instant death is broadly irrelevant to them and even a few survivors can inflict a lot of damage with execution blades. Im not sure i always used them to best advantage though, and their transport was consistently picked off. Id definitely want another squad next time though.

Dedicated Transport

Kharon pattern Acquisitor
Ran a trio of these mounting meltas over my games and they were always fun, even if they were too close to an exploding knight far too often, ive learned to spread them out to avoid that! They are so damn fast they can redeploy almost anywhere quickly enough anyway and in theory their firepower is the best AT we have, though my luck on that front was appalling.  Still essential! 

Fast Attack

Subjugator Cadre
Ran a couple of small units with snares, great fun! (For me) Though if the enemy actually decides to kill them they evaporate they are rarely annoying enough to be a high target priority, in all my games my best targets were jump packs and other fast targets so i never stopped anything dead but i have high hopes one day lol. Having a power spear makes them a bully threat to little enemy units and the like, though overwatch keeps heavy weapons safe (bah!)

Heavy Support

Sanctioner Cadre
Two maxed units in most of my lists and they were always good, though id rather have 4 units of 5 than two tens, slots suck. Dishing out pins and removing sergeants, special troops and the like was consistently useful, in a tight spot they put a few wounds on dreads and they never had nothing to do, s5 rifles means they can menace lighter vehicles too so remember that! 

Expurgator Cadre
Finally our heavy weapons unit, i ran 10x Missile launchers with a Silent judge and in some matches they did some great damage, though mostly to other heavy weapon squads as missile launchers were rarely much of a threat to vehicles, they did make a librarian lead squad of elites avoid their flank entirely to avoid psyk out missiles though :D 

The Judge meant a lot of counter fire was out of range and stopped reactions (except dreads! beware fearless!) but noone assaulted them really because heavy weapon overwatch is mean, so perhaps shes best elsewhere? ech.


Overall i had 2 close losses, 2 wins one messy annihilation and one i could have won if i didnt run out of units first, playing the scenario can help even against tank armies and overwhelming firepower :D 

So thats an update on my recent thoughts, might be a bit messy as im tired and hot lol has anyone else been playing games?

 

Interesting thoughts, my brother plays Custodess so I’m always on the look out for new tactics and the SOS seem quite interesting.

 

Theoretically the silent Judge would be best used in an assault unit. I’ve used Khârn a few times for my world eaters so far and his ability to negate overwatch is game changing. Other assault elements tend to be whittled down through over watch, there’s no incentive to use ranged weapons prior to the charge and often you’re having to move very close to your assault target to mitigate withdrawal reactions.

 

Disallowing reactions and counting as being and additional 12” away from your target is quite powerful for an assault unit. 
 

Cadmus