point drops.

[DesuVult]

4 hours ago, The Emperors Champion22 said:

youre right, but theyre pretty set on each marine unit doing one thing, but they dont do it really well most of the time, and theyre overcosted for what theyre doing. they need things like fight twice and shoot twice on assault and regular intercessors to be datasheet abilities, not stratagems.

Instead of fight twice or shoot twice baked in I would like to see something like a complete overhaul of doctrines to work better with the idea of how doctrines are supposed to work and how units operate.  I am not a fan of fight or shoot twice mechanically as it is just more of the same so would be more of nothing.

 

Each unit is assigned a keyword, devastator, tactical, or assault.  Some units may have 2 and be forced to pick one or have one by default with an ability to replace it.  There is a list of abilities like the custom chapter ones and pre-game you assign an ability to each doctrine.  The whole game your entire army is in their doctrine.  These abilities are like the SoB Blessings of The Faithful which have a second ability that can be activated.  Give some models, like captains, the keyword <chapter command>, in your command phase if you have a chapter command unit on the battlefield you can activate the second ability for one of your doctrines.  I would quite frankly trade chapter tactics and doctrines for this because it gives you more play in units benefitting from their role.  Veterans could have 2 doctrines like kasrkin in the new IG codex or could have their second ability from doctrines always active.  Some units, like death company, could trade their doctrine for a permanent ability.  Instead of this rolling strategy that that may not fit a changing situation you have each unit showing up the battlefield knowing their role and what they need to do with the captain able to adjust the company's tactics to a changing situation.  First turn maybe you trigger a second ability on devastator so you get +1 D into vehicles and monsters with heavy weapons letting you clear an objective, second turn you go into assault to push your bladeguard onto an objective with +1 to charge rolls, you get on the objectives but are being pushed hard so you go into tactical to give your intercessors a 5+++ while contesting an objective.

Edited November 28, 2022 by DesuVult

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

6 hours ago, The Emperors Champion22 said:

one gladiator valiant, or two 5 man intercessor squads are gonna make the difference?

150 -200 points is the minimum… 250 would be even better.

[WrathOfTheLion]

Making SM units like Legionaries would be a stark reversal of their current design philosophy. Primaris units generally have singular purpose/loadout/etc. Taking the base troops like intercessors and putting them back into having that would definitely go against how they've designed that entire range.

 

Not that I disagree with the idea, I love my Legionaries in CSM, just noting where that goes against the grain of how they design Primaris Space Marine units.

Edited November 28, 2022 by WrathOfTheLion

[Karhedron]

There are few units in the SM codex that match the flexibility of Legionaries, Grey Hunters possibly come the closest. Primaris would need a substantial upgrade sprue to allow that kind of flexibility although Black Templars are an improvement in that regard. CSM have a lot of flexibility on their core units whereas Marines have a larger range of units with less flexibility.

[The Emperors Champion22]

11 hours ago, Karhedron said:

There are few units in the SM codex that match the flexibility of Legionaries, Grey Hunters possibly come the closest. Primaris would need a substantial upgrade sprue to allow that kind of flexibility although Black Templars are an improvement in that regard. CSM have a lot of flexibility on their core units whereas Marines have a larger range of units with less flexibility.

maybe they should get the plague marine treatment and get all their weapon options for free. a thunder hammer and plasma pistol in each assault intercessor squad sounds pretty good.

[DesuVult]

Legionaires had to get a KT upgrade sprue to reach their current point but I feel is worth it.  GW seems to be backtracking some in the mono-loadout for primaris.  Some new units like heavy intercessors and eradicators can take a heavy weapon replacement upgrade.  It would be cool to see more fun options from things like KT upgrades.

[The Emperors Champion22]

2 hours ago, DesuVult said:

Legionaires had to get a KT upgrade sprue to reach their current point but I feel is worth it.  GW seems to be backtracking some in the mono-loadout for primaris.  Some new units like heavy intercessors and eradicators can take a heavy weapon replacement upgrade.  It would be cool to see more fun options from things like KT upgrades.

I was hoping that the intercessors/ assault intercessors would get the upgrade sprue, but unfortunately the infiltrators/ incursors got it instead. I just wish that they would ditch phobos and flesh out the standard line more.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Phobos Marines are one of the best things in the codex. A unit doesn’t have to be a major damage dealer to pull its weight.

[The Emperors Champion22]

9 hours ago, BLACK BLΠFLY said:

Phobos Marines are one of the best things in the codex. A unit doesn’t have to be a major damage dealer to pull its weight.

I just dont like the phobos line, their aesthetic and playstyle isnt what i want from marines.

[9x19 Parabellum]

11 hours ago, BLACK BLΠFLY said:

Phobos Marines are one of the best things in the codex. A unit doesn’t have to be a major damage dealer to pull its weight.

 

I can totally get behind this, but they needed to be costed better.  A unit that just exists for secondary scoring, to get on objectives early, etc, is fine, but 24 ppm for infiltrators is too much.

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

The thing is that infiltrators also push back deep strikes which can be really powerful against some fractions.

[Karhedron]

And between Smoke Grenades and their Helix Gauntlet, they can be just a little bit harder for your opponent to shift than they expect.

[Medjugorje]

they have more tricks. They can have Felix gauntlet which is good. They have -1 to hit strat and flanking strat.