5th edition to 10 edition, will GK ever be good again?

[Reskin]

I was playing heavily prior to the release of the 9th edition codex, as soon as the release dropped, and read what was inside, I left the hobby, I’ve returned this past month, mainly just painting to chip away at my army, in the hopes that one day I’ll finally finish what I have built.

 

but I played two games this past weekend, and boy oh boy do we still  too. Given the changes to matched play with the changes to CP and warlord traits… something I thought we really relied upon. It was quite a shock to witness being tabled turn two in both games, the plethora of overpowered shooting in most armies and board denial, really

limits our ability to survive a turn or two and make it into combat.

 

not since 5th edition have we been close to top tier, and not since 7th I believe when we could teleport strike turn one did we ever really stand a chance to be competitive.

 

Again GW’s incompetence, to stem the tide of rules creep has left me ragging quietly on the inside, incapable of making any significant impact on Gw’s game design team and rules writing.

 

I’m left with nought but to send my inconsequential gripe and complaint into the cold endless void that is internet forums.

 

I admit, as previous stated on this forum before the release of our 9th edition codex, I was hugely sceptical of the release, but deep down, I quietly yearned for that joy when you were 10 years old opening the biggest present under the Christmas tree, and finding it to be exactly what you asked mum and dad for.

 

Alas, that wasn’t the case, and I braced my self with steely resolve. Instead the 10year old me awoke to a warm,  left on my door, and not a single present under the tree.

 

I’m not going to go into great deal about the 9th codex, as I’m sure many of you have already done so, suffice to say, it’s utter garbage, and the constant overall rule changes to the game make it more so.

as ever, a long standing member of the imperium of Mankind, I hold onto hope, for a brighter day, when Mankind, or at-least the grey knights can once again bathe in the glorious light of the Emperor.

Will that be 10th edition?

Edited November 21, 2022 by Brother Lunkhead
swearing

[Karhedron]

I don't know about 10th edition but metawatch puts GKs on 46% currently. Not great but not terrible either. That puts them ahead of all flavours of Marines except Blood Angels.

[Captain Coolpants]

Almost impossible for me to answer this one as I just don't like the game in general anymore. Not really sure where the magic went, can't quite place it on changes in editions or what. 

 

Maybe having kids destroyed my soul and sucked all the joy from the world haha

 

Still think minis are rad and cool to look at though. 

[Reskin]

It’s the constant oppression of shooting armies and destroying whole armies in a turn or 2 there’s no swing to the game, and too complicated of a rules set

[dice4thedicegod]

Non grey knight player here: they look very competitive versus marines… do they just have bad match ups against xenos?

 

(id kill for my troops to be strike squad quality for the points)

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

They have bad matchups vs SM.

[dice4thedicegod]

3 hours ago, BLACK BLΠFLY said:

They have bad matchups vs SM.

How?   They look perfect for annihilating MEQ 

[Cleon]

The base squads of Grey Knights are good match ups for Space Marine base squads, but they have to be, because lacking the equivalents of the units that Space Marines actually use the Grey Knight units will often get taken out before they have the chance to mulch intercessors or tacticals.

Examples of Space Marine units in common usage that Grey Knights have no answer to:

The durability and hitting power of Blade Guard (No Storm Shields for Grey Knight squads)

The destructive firepower of Eradicators

The versatility and weight of fire of Redemptor Dreadnoughts (There's a reason Space Marines use them over the Classic and Venerable Dreads Grey Knights share)

The 'Grey Knight Plus' that is the Sanguinary Guard

The 'Grey Knight Terminator Plus' that is Deathwing with their always on Transhuman and better weapons options.

I'm sure there are more, but these are the ones that jump out to me.

[dice4thedicegod]

Aren’t dreadknights the redemptor equivalent ?

 

and mortal wounds should get rid of inner circle nonsense?

[Captain Coolpants]

I mean, you could just look up tournament stats and see that GK dont all that well.

 

In a vacuum, a base marine vs a base strike, obviously the strike squad is epic value for points. But Marines as a whole just have so much more. The combination of doctrines and 20 times more overall wargear and unit options just have GK outgunned. Although GW has done a lot to better CC, its still a shooty game. That's the main issue for GK really, all they have are bolter weapons. 

[Reskin]

I wouldn't want to compare the basic troops, either tacticals' or intercessors, vs our strikes, because why would I want to take strikes, who do the same as every other infantry unit except worse. The troop tax is real for GK. The ark of Omen formation at least at first glance, will benefit GK more than most armies. Eldar are in the same boat.

 

Either paladins or interceptors will be the unit we take as a mandatory option. I could be wrong. and then fill the rest with NDKs

[Weltbild]

I am surprised that there has been no heated discussion going about the new Munitorum Field Manual points changes.

 

We get quite a bit of cost reduction and free special/heavy weapons.

 

Hello? Can anyone hear me?

[WAR]

With the reduction of points it is going to be interesting.  I know I recently purchased 2 more terminator squads but more for boarding actions (gives me 6 terminator squads also). 

 

[Reskin]

I just woke up, and read the releases.

[Reskin]

Grey Knight Points changes as follows from the 2023 MkI field manual;

 

-HQ-

Brother Captain 100pts (down 10pts)

Brother Captain Stern 110pts (down 10pts)

Brotherhood Champion 60pts (down 10pts)

Brotherhood Librarian 95pts (down 10pts)

Brotherhood Techmarine 70pts (down 10pts)

Castellan Crowe 85pts (down 5pts)

Grandmaster 120pts (down 15pts)

Grandmaster Voldus 135pts (down 15pts)

Brotherhood Chaplain 100pts (down 10pts)

Kaldor Draigo 165pts (down 15pts)

 

-TROOPS-

Terminators 35ppm (down 5ppm)

Strike Squad 20ppm (down 2ppm)

 

-ELITES-

Apothecary 90pts (down 10pts)

Brotherhood Ancient 90pts (down 10pts)

Dreadnought (unchanged, need to check updates from Space marines, if their guns went down in price)

Paladin Ancient 100pts (down 15pts)

Paladin Squad (unchanged)

Purifier Squad (unchanged)

 

-FAST ATTACK-

Interceptor Squad 24ppm (down 2ppm)

 

nothing else changed it seems, and I haven't checked weapon points for guns from dreads, or tanks, etc etc. 

 

Overall, hopefully this helps field a decent army on the board. I'm not going to get into "this doesn't feel elite now argument." Lets face it, we didn't prior to this, so don't even go there.

 

Few things to note,

with the balance data slate, we lost Armour of Contempt. And we also didn't get a sanctic arstartes keyword in the new Space Marines "sticky" objective special rule. 

As far as I can read it anyway. Was that intended? Who knows, I for one didn't have my hopes up, but I also will take anything that helps.

[WAR]

From what I saw no vehicle or weapon changes outside of infantry 

[Reskin]

I think personally, from the Arks of Omen changes where our elite characters such as apothecary and ancients don't take slots now is a win.

 

Means you could start a list with draigo or even voldus now that he's somewhat cheap and 3 units of paladins/interceptors and then go from there.

 

3 units of paladins still allows us to take an apothecary. Which I love. Not sure how many of you remember the days of 5th when an apothecary was a unit upgrade for that unit.

 

Haven't built any list yet, as waiting for the lovely chaps over at battle scribe to work through all that data and update it, but i was doing some rough calculations, you can fit another 5 man unit or a dread just about.

[WAR]

Ahhh the apothecary upgrade along  with 1 man paladin squads out to kill daemons….and doing it effectively 

 

 

[Captain Coolpants]

Its all good news of course. But aren't most Marines getting similar reductions? So yes we will have more toys on the board, but so will they. 

[Reskin]

On 1/6/2023 at 8:56 AM, WAR said:

From what I saw no vehicle or weapon changes outside of infantry 

I did some looking, The weapon options for dreadnoughts aren't listed

 

which means they therefor don’t have points values.

Edited January 9, 2023 by Reskin
typos.

[Reskin]

with the changes to unit and wargear costs, I'm estimating us to be way more "killy" psycannons make a return on every unit with our tide of convergence and a chaplain?

at least now with points reductions, I could fit 3HQ's in, and an ancient or apothecary. Seems like the future is looking bright.... (have I spoke too soon?)

 

Be interested to start seeing more lists and feedback from other GK players after these changes.

[WAR]

pre point drop friendly game I ran Chaplain next to Purgation Squad of Psilencers vs friends orks. They definitely did work and keep the horde at bay.  So I love to see them near Psycannons and how effective it would be. 

 

Trying to figure our Boarding Action Team.  Thinking Librarian and 2 terminator squads with incinerators. We will Still have problems with amount of bodies but toughness, armor and psychic powers should be fun

[Reskin]

Paladins, paladins, paladins,

 

boy do I love ‘em. 45pts for a paladin and a special ranged weapon feels so right. I can’t contain the joy I have writing lists right now with the BattleScribe update.

 

Christmas did eventually come this year!

 

edit: 5man purgation squad with 4x psycannons look pretty tasty too, I never did take them, but for 110 pts for the unit that can teleport strike. 

Edited January 16, 2023 by Reskin

[Reskin]

On 1/6/2023 at 8:29 PM, Captain Coolpants said:

Its all good news of course. But aren't most Marines getting similar reductions? So yes we will have more toys on the board, but so will they. 

I was thinking about this comment, 

 

most marines got point reductions, but those marines were already taking their powerful special weapons, plasma or melta, regardless of they have points values or not.

 

for me personally I see this as more of a win for GK, I was never taking psycannons on squads, couldn’t fit the points in and have everything else I wanted. Now I would get to run the same list, but taking less storm bolters and more psycannons, about 6-10 in total.

Edited January 23, 2023 by Reskin

[WAR]

That is a good pint @Reskin. I was talking with a regular opponent the other day and were talking about the point reductions and how certain units still have to pay for upgrades. The ability to take Heavy weapons for free on our terminators now is amazing.