Best TC platform?

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

So hear me out either punisher or exterminator.

 

both have set amount of shots in their turret weapons, so there’s an entire order they can’t benefit from unless they have plasma sponsons. This way if you’re running a TC and issue the pound them to dust order every receiving Russ will be able to benefit from it without dedicating a WLT to being able to do so.

 

 

[Emperor Ming]

Well, ofc u know probably by now, I would say neither

 

But if I had to choose, then the punisher, weight of shots at the end of the day

[sairence]

I's probably go for the classic Battlecannon most of the time tbh. Upgraded to Gatekeeper when I can spare the relic.

 

Punisher looks pretty nice, but for me it has the same issue as always...we have loads of anti infantry fire in a balanced list either way. And with Take Aim likely the most used order it doesn't even get an AP buff over a lot of other weapons.

 

As for the Exterminator...I want to like it, but the Hydra simply does AC-fire support so much better.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

11 hours ago, sairence said:

I's probably go for the classic Battlecannon most of the time tbh. Upgraded to Gatekeeper when I can spare the relic.

 

Punisher looks pretty nice, but for me it has the same issue as always...we have loads of anti infantry fire in a balanced list either way. And with Take Aim likely the most used order it doesn't even get an AP buff over a lot of other weapons.

 

As for the Exterminator...I want to like it, but the Hydra simply does AC-fire support so much better.

The exterminator lets you bring dedicated AT firepower as well though.

[sairence]

Does it though? The Hydra gets 2 extra shots, which imo makes up for having 1 less S. And it gets a bunch of buffs against aircraft while being a good deal cheaper.

 

The BC will average out at the exact same number of shots as the Exterminator, while doing 1 more damage.

 

Sadly, for me at least, the Exterminator still needed 2 more shots to be a viable alternative. Same as in the 8th ed book really.

 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

8 hours ago, sairence said:

Does it though? The Hydra gets 2 extra shots, which imo makes up for having 1 less S. And it gets a bunch of buffs against aircraft while being a good deal cheaper.

 

The BC will average out at the exact same number of shots as the Exterminator, while doing 1 more damage.

 

Sadly, for me at least, the Exterminator still needed 2 more shots to be a viable alternative. Same as in the 8th ed book really.

 

Exterminator over all gets a lot more shots, if it brings AT load out in the hull.

4 multi melta shots and a lascannon shot. 11 total shots even with the hydra’s 11 total shots,  but the exterminator is tougher and has that AT option.

[sairence]

Yeah, but again...at that point I'm paying 70p more over a Hydra.

 

And I can still just take a Battlecannon Russ that can do all of that too at the same cost and gets an extra point of damage at statistically the exact same nr of shots over the course of a game. 

[dees]

I plan on using the battle or executioner plasma cannons, but if I had to I'd go with the punisher over the exterminator.

 

Side question does anyone think they'll use the demolisher cannon now?     

[Emperor Ming]

3 hours ago, dees said:

Side question does anyone think they'll use the demolisher cannon now?     

Nope, d6 shots is just far to swingy, so that's my tanks shelved until I can redo them

 

Magnets next time

[TCC]

Demolisher is out for me, it’s gatekeeper, plasma, vanquisher, battlecannon in that order - none of the others are worth taking.

[sairence]

Demolisher isn't bad I think, you'll just have to rely on Pound them to Dust and gets overshadowed by the Executioner now. Depends on how relevant the S10 over S8 is for you I'd say.

[jarms48]

9 hours ago, TCC said:

Demolisher is out for me, it’s gatekeeper, plasma, vanquisher, battlecannon in that order - none of the others are worth taking.

 

This is what I was going to say.

 

Top to bottom:

- Gatekeeper: Autotake. Literally just the best turret weapon hands down. Just the increased Strength and AP would be good, but 6+D3 shots is far better than D6+3 shots.

- Executioner: If you just want a TC to do everything but don't want to invest anything on it. You could give it the ability to order itself, just so you don't hurt yourself as much.

- Vanquisher: Excellent, but needs something else to make it good. Either you have to take the RR Hit trait, or pay for the Tank Ace that lets it take that trait. You absolutely need that RR to make it less swingy. 

- Battle Cannon: Same as the Executioner, just worse output, but you don't have to worry about damaging yourself. So you don't need to spend additional CP or points. 

 

In terms of upgrades, armoured tracks just seems like an auto include. Sponsons are point fillers, always have been. If you don't have enough models slap these on everything. HB or HF are the best options. Plasma cannons are less reliable due to no more rerolling shots, and not really worth it on a TC unless you're putting it on an Executioner that can benefit from orders. Multi-meltas just seem too expensive still, especially considering you'll only ever hit on 4+ with them. 

 

* * * * * 

 

As for the Demolisher, if the Executioner gets a point increase I can see it being viable. The double model count for blast makes it much more reliable, it's okay against single targets too compared to a Battle Cannon.

 

* * * * *

 

Then lastly for the Exterminator, Eradicator, and Punisher just don't take them. They're terrible now. Exterminator needs to be at least heavy 8 to be viable. Eradicator would be okay against MEQ's if it had flat damage 3. Punisher could be 30 inch range like the Heavy Onslaught Cannon.

 

Edited December 2, 2022 by jarms48

[greatcrusade08]

for a tank brigade im thiking of running demolishers with heirloom weapons and elites for 28" range and one reroll to hit per unit.

TC would be a vanquisher (i just want to build a tank destroyer for my WW2 theme tbh) but with a reroll on the main gun would be amazing.

maybe a second TC with gatekeeper would work.

[Emperor Ming]

Even at 8 shots, would the exterminator be worth it, it wasn't exactly a popular pick in 8th

 

What it needs, is to be decoupled from autocannon stats and have its own better profile

 

Autocannons could have done with an 9th tune up

[Shamansky]

2 hours ago, Emperor Ming said:

Even at 8 shots, would the exterminator be worth it, it wasn't exactly a popular pick in 8th

 

It was not popular in 8th exactly because it was transitioned without Twin-Linked 'transformation'. Considering that almost every twin-linked weapon got double number of shots instead of reroll to-hit, Extrminator stayed Heavy 4 while it should become Heavy 8. Heavy 16 autocannon from Grinding Advance would be something to think of for the price.
 

Edited December 2, 2022 by Shamansky

[Sawtooth]

Can the Gatekeeper only be given to Tamk Commanders? I don't have my book yet and was unclear from a few previews.

[sairence]

26 minutes ago, Sawtooth said:

Can the Gatekeeper only be given to Tamk Commanders? I don't have my book yet and was unclear from a few previews.

Yeah, the relic specifically says Tank Commander

[jarms48]

12 hours ago, Shamansky said:

It was not popular in 8th exactly because it was transitioned without Twin-Linked 'transformation'. Considering that almost every twin-linked weapon got double number of shots instead of reroll to-hit, Extrminator stayed Heavy 4 while it should become Heavy 8. Heavy 16 autocannon from Grinding Advance would be something to think of for the price.

 

Absolutely this, and that's how I would have made it in 8th too.

 

  

14 hours ago, Emperor Ming said:

What it needs, is to be decoupled from autocannon stats and have its own better profile

 

It does have a better profile. It's S8 AP-2. The problem is shot count, 6 shots is less than the average shots of a Battle Cannon. 8 shots puts it above the average and just under the maximum, at the cost of less damage and less range. Here's the math:

 

Spoiler

 

Current 9th Edition Exterminator into Tactical Marines. 

 

Increasing the Exterminator to 8 shots into Tactical Marines.

 

Battle Cannon into Tactical Marines.

 

So the Exterminator after moving to 8 shots would be slightly better into MEQ's and GEQ's. Worse against everything else. So even then it won't be the best option, but it won't be absolutely terrible either.

 

Edited December 3, 2022 by jarms48

[Emperor Ming]

Killing 2 marines on average with a 155pt model is either funny or sad, or both

 

Hopefully that maths takes into account aoc

[jarms48]

3 minutes ago, Emperor Ming said:

Killing 2 marines on average with a 155pt model is either funny or sad, or both

 

Hopefully that maths takes into account aoc

 

That's with AoC factored in, yes. This is why the Executioner is far better, AP-2 is pretty sad at the moment. Even then though, Executioner only kills 3 marines on average.

[sairence]

Also, the geneal assumption would be that you get more than one round of shooting out of it. It doesn't need to make its points back in one volley. ;-)