What-Ifs and/or Parallel Universe Novels

[Moonreaper666]

I believe that Black Library should release novels that cover certain hypothetical scenarios and canonize Alternate Universes. Have these What-Ifs and Mirror Universes give dire implications to the setting or motivate certain characters to be who they are or something better

 

Like a novel between Be'lakor and the Emperor, discussing their memories of their various Alternate selves. The countless other versions of Neoth failing and dying.

 

Or a novel about Perpetual-lead humanoty achieving DaoT before the Stone Age only to be corrupted by Chaos. Show the twisted and powerful potential Humanity, AI and Advanced Tech could be when empowered by Chaos in ways they are not in the main setting

 

Or a novel dispproving all the stupid headcannons or the false idea that the Heresy or its equivalents could have been prevented or control the damage. (Sanginius and Lion at Isstvan 5? Horus actually wins by fully accepting Chaos much earlier) Wh40k works well when it gives the feeling of dire unstoppable fate ending everything dear

[Brother Tyler]

1 hour ago, Moonreaper666 said:

Or a novel dispproving all the stupid headcannons ...

 

Everyone has their "headcannon." For example, you are quite well-known for your own particular headcannon, much of which is at odds with how a large segment of the hobby community views things. The amount of irony in calling [other people's] headcannons "stupid" is staggering.

 

Personally, I don't see GW/BL ever publishing these types of works, nor would I want them to. The Warhammer 40,000 setting isn't one that really features a "multiverse" or alternate universes. Yes, there is some linkage between the fantasy setting and the Warhammer 40,000 setting, but it's not an alternate universe sort of thing. GW/BL are very focused on developing the lore of the official setting, and while there are many moments of fan service, the focus is decidedly on the official setting/storyline.

 

What you're suggesting sounds [to me] like the kind of thing that should remain firmly in the fan fiction category - let the fans muddy the waters with their self-indulgent fantasies while GW/BL focus on the real thing. Licensed fiction is bad enough without introducing a bunch of material that might or might not be "real."

 

The appeal of the setting to me isn't the [debatable] inevitable victory of Chaos. Rather, it's the inevitable struggle against anyone and everything else in the galaxy. In the case of Humanity, while Chaos is the defining enemy, other foes similarly pose credible threats. The various xenos races, for example, are an ever-present threat; and both the Necrons and Tyranids pose just as much of an existential threat to Humanity as Chaos (indeed, many would argue that the Tyranids are the dominant threat of the galaxy and most likely victor in the end). For all of the other races, Humanity is one of the main threats, especially for those minor species that we don't hear about much. Even the Aeldari, though, have much to fear from Humanity (even though some pockets of that species might be hidden away in the Webway). It's not necessarily about any one particular enemy, but rather the ever-present struggle against a variety of enemies and the fact that there never seems to be a happy place on the horizon for anyone (besides the most ephemeral of happy moments experienced here and there). It's very difficult for BL authors to wrap their heads around alien [and daemonic] mindsets, so we tend to see the universe through the eyes of Humanity; and we witness the ever-present struggle against the manifold enemies that threaten Humanity's existence.

[Roomsky]

I wouldn't mind that, but honestly I don't see BL ever doing it. They're bad enough at printing stories set in their established universe, and I think even despite the current demand they wouldn't sell well. Maybe once Cavill's Amazon series comes out.

 

That said, I would love a parallel to the Legends banner to exist to facilitate canon-breaking stories here and there (and to be a space for reprints of books that contradict what the setting eventually grew into.) I'd love a crisp, new copy of Space Marine. It could also be a home for authors who tend to write in gross extremity, instead of sanitizing their works for wider release a la DC Vertigo.

 

The other issue with What-Ifs is that very few single events in-setting affect the universe strongly enough for the outcome to be all that exciting. Eg: No "what if the Emperor did X?" would have saved the Imperium, IMO. It's sort of like the classic "What if the Nazis won?" stories that are usually unbelievable because the Nazis were always going to lose that war, regardless of a few alterations to history. The Nazis that win aren't the Nazis, and the Emperor that wins is not the Emperor.

 

So the alternative is to do this with established characters instead, like "what if Rawne succeeded in killing Gaunt?" and like, does anyone even care about such a thing?

 

But in the spirit of Moonreaper's post, here are some things that might be nominally interesting:

• What if the Primarchs were never scattered (crew cuts for everyone!)
• What if Guilliman was assassinated by the High Lords (the Roomsky ending)
• What if Lorgar invaded Calth in person, and later died. (The joke is nothing substantial would change, and Erebus and Kor Phaeron would still pretend to be doing his bidding.)

[Cactus]

I think the concept can work if (i) the "what if" is suitably far from actual reality  to be fun and entertaining and (ii) it's in a shorter format. I wouldn't be interested in a novel of "what if Gaunt killed Rawne" but I'd be delighted by a 6-12 page comic strip "what if Gaunt's Ghosts were a Blood Bowl team".

[Felix Antipodes]

Not for me and I hope it never comes to pass.  Every time you create a doppelgänger of an existing character, whether via a parallel universe or ‘what if’ scenario you are diluting the original character and its attraction (as both DC and Marvel are now finding out imho).

[cheywood]

I think I would enjoy an anthology of What If? style Great Crusade/Heresy short stories. The Great Crusade/Heresy is a story in large part of lost dreams and poor decisions. It would be interesting to see how changing some of those decisions changes (or destroys) the Imperium of Man and the fate of the human race.  

 

40k is already a catastrophic playground for the delight of daemonic entities and the mindless hunger of aliens. I don’t think showcasing slightly different flavors of that would have much in the way of resonance. So what if Abaddon fails and dies at Cadia? There’d be another Chaos Space Marine waiting in the wings to fight and the Legions would sally forth from the eye again.

[DukeLeto69]

IMHO...NO!

[Lord_Caerolion]

The mental image of the Emperor and Be’lakor just sitting around having a casual chat is just… laughably stupid. Be’lakor just pops in for a quick goss with the Emperor sitting on the Throne, Custodes bringing in cups of tea and psyker-soul sandwiches, the book ending with “well that was a nice chat, Neoth, you absolutely must come over next time, I’ve been dying to show you what I’ve done with my new place! Shall we say next Tuesday?”
 

Black Library should absolutely not do this. There’s already so, so many unexplored regions and time periods for them to fill in, without nonsense like “paleolithic humans make supercomputers then daemons kill everyone”.

[System Sound]

A short story collection of What It's, that is clearly labeled as such, I think could be interesting. As long as its not, what if x primarch turned or not... Less to do with heresy the better. There's plenty of X Heresy Fanfics out there and even here sometimes...

 

Anyways. Few examples I guess:

 

Dante never joined the Blood Angels.
Rubric never happened

Huron won. Or never started the war.

Tannith not destroyed.

Vandire remaining in power/Sisters not forming.

 

I don't know enough about xenos lore, but I'm pretty sure there could be some examples there too.

[Cactus]

What if Khaine survived the War in Heaven intact, or even destroyed Slaanesh?

[sibomots]

LibreOffice is free.

As is LaTeX.

 

Go crazy.

 

[Moonreaper666]

On 12/16/2022 at 9:02 PM, Lord_Caerolion said:

The mental image of the Emperor and Be’lakor just sitting around having a casual chat is just… laughably stupid. Be’lakor just pops in for a quick goss with the Emperor sitting on the Throne, Custodes bringing in cups of tea and psyker-soul sandwiches, the book ending with “well that was a nice chat, Neoth, you absolutely must come over next time, I’ve been dying to show you what I’ve done with my new place! Shall we say next Tuesday?”
 

Black Library should absolutely not do this. There’s already so, so many unexplored regions and time periods for them to fill in, without nonsense like “paleolithic humans make supercomputers then daemons kill everyone”.

 

Mental communication through the Warp

 

My thought is Be'lakor mocking Neoth for the countless failures in OTHER Universes

 

Both mainline Be'lakor and mainline Emperor have the souls and memories of countless alternate versions of themselves. All these alternate versions are from Alternate Universes in which Chaos wins thanks to Be'lakor. This is why both Be'lakor and Emperor are very powerful and have unique abilities in the setting

 

The egomaniac Be'lakor, having won in countless other Mirror Universes, would mock the Emperor in the current setting and tells him he will win again

 

Another reason I want What-Ifs is the various ways a 'miniscule' victory or slight change of events ensures a Total Chaos victory. The Grimdark feeling of walking a tightrope in 40k, metaphorically and reality thanks to the Warp

 

Like this:

 

-Had Melisadae hesistated to fight back against Samus a little longer, Dorn would have died on Solar War alongside Sigismund, Fafnir Rahn, Loken, Archamus, Su-Kassen, etc. Phalanx is captured by the Traitors.

 

-Lost and Damned has Perturabo load up the Phalanx with explosives and throw it at the Imperial Palace. Aegis is damaged while Khan is commanding since Dorn is dead. Lost and Damned overrun Lion Gate Spaceport before the Dark Mechanicum deploy their forces. Addis Abbaba traitors help the LatD take Saturnine Spaceport

 

-Night Lords and Death Guard deploy their forces. Mortarion easily takes Mercury Wall and decimates the Ordo Sinister. White Scars are slaughtered at Mercury Wall without their Primarch and lacking support from other Loyalists

 

-World Eaters, Emperors Children, Iron Warriors and Sons of Horus attack Eternity Gate in four differrent ways at the same time. Traitor Titans swarm Sanginius and kill him even if they kill many of their own via friendly fire. Thousand Sons and Word Bearers joined in to kill the Emperor and destroy the Throne

 

Ancient Humans discovered Enuncia as shown in Mortis or Warhawk

[SkimaskMohawk]

I think non-human what ifs would be a lot more interesting. What if so and so did/didn't succumb to chaos doesn't really...matter? Or has been speculated on already with the dornian heresy and stuff. 

 

Like what Cactus was saying; what if the eldar pantheon and empire beat slaanesh? Would they be super-degenerate dark eldar then? How would the crusade fare against the full power of the eldar with their actual gods backing them up?

 

Or what if the orks won in octarius and some re-evolved into the krork from the sheer amount of fighting. 

 

Uh, maybe something like if the Tau allied themselves with the eldar or necrons and had a much larger impact on the imperium?

 

 

[Lord_Caerolion]

On 12/18/2022 at 5:44 PM, Moonreaper666 said:

 

Both mainline Be'lakor and mainline Emperor have the souls and memories of countless alternate versions of themselves. All these alternate versions are from Alternate Universes in which Chaos wins thanks to Be'lakor.

I mean, they don’t, though. So now we’re fundamentally changing the setting just so you can have a What-If book, just so you can have stories of “and then Chaos killed a TRILLION people in a day!”

[Moonreaper666]

On 12/20/2022 at 12:36 AM, Lord_Caerolion said:

I mean, they don’t, though. So now we’re fundamentally changing the setting just so you can have a What-If book, just so you can have stories of “and then Chaos killed a TRILLION people in a day!”

 

In Parallel Universes. So the Emperor can reflect on his failures, drown in his sorrow

 

Failure after failure. True Grimdark