Do you think firstborn marines will be discontinued?

[BrainFireBob]

2 hours ago, BLACK BLΠFLY said:

Honestly I can’t recall the last time I saw any conversation regarding the 3.5 CSM codex . Obviously that doesn’t mean it’s not discussed but this seems like comparing apples to oranges .

You missed my point. It went on *bitterly* for what, 10 years? The very term "squatted" shows we're likely to hear about it endlessly

[Tacitus]

18 hours ago, Kallas said:

Physical space is a nothing burger. They had room for the original Firstborn models and kits, except they removed a bunch of character models to make room for Primaris - it's a problem made from whole cloth; it didn't need to be a problem, but they made it anyway.

 

No it's not.  Without new kits people stop buying.  I hadn't bought a first born kit for a few editions before Primaris.  I had all I needed.  Heck the last time I had bought a new (as in I didn't already have it in an older sculpt scenario) first born kit was probably Dark Vengeance era where I bought that, the expansion, and a couple characters etc because they made Double Wing a Thing.   So you have two problems to solve.  Generate Sales and don't overload the shelves.

[Tacitus]

17 hours ago, Malakithe said:

Oh I remember as thats when I started the hobby right during the End Times and into the launch of AoS. There was a ton of backlash...but GW didint care. They pushed forward with their plan and here we are several years later.

 

Eh refresh, replace...its basically the same. In order to refresh with new stuff you need to replace the old stuff.

 

But I agree with you that they dont need to remove anything but they will in order to sell the latest shiniest stuff

Yeah, my Fantasy armies were Tomb Kings and Bretonians. "Here we are" is that I haven't gone anywhere near AOS.

 

They don't have to remove anything to sell the shiniest stuff, they have to remove it to make room for the shiniest stuff on the shelf.  And that's probably what they were going to do until they had 30K success.  Now I imagine you'll see a Heresy Armor Tac Squad floated for 40K "Collectors" - it'll go to the 30K /40K border line on the shelves, the "modern" Tac Squad will go to online only - or some other seasonal sales model - until the mold wears out then they'll make a business desicion on making a new one or not based on sales. 

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

1 hour ago, BrainFireBob said:

You missed my point. It went on *bitterly* for what, 10 years? The very term "squatted" shows we're likely to hear about it endlessly

10 years… I think that’s a bit of an exaggeration.

[DesuVult]

I don't get why people keep making arguments about space in books and on shelves when GW does the opposite.  GW advertises large books as a selling point and pushes range size as a positive.  The space marine range and datasheets are basically artificially inflated in number to be bigger.  The codices being too big and unwieldy is a problem as consumers but is not a problem to GW in their model.

[Tacitus]

7 hours ago, DesuVult said:

I don't get why people keep making arguments about space in books and on shelves when GW does the opposite.  GW advertises large books as a selling point and pushes range size as a positive.  The space marine range and datasheets are basically artificially inflated in number to be bigger.  The codices being too big and unwieldy is a problem as consumers but is not a problem to GW in their model.

Because we're not trying to sell you models and books.  You ever see anyone tell you their model range is far too small and generic? 

[BrainFireBob]

11 hours ago, BLACK BLΠFLY said:

10 years… I think that’s a bit of an exaggeration.

Sept 2007 until Dec 2016 when Traitor Legions rolled out. Near enough. 

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I just don’t believe players complained that long and an army list from the 5th edition codex had the highest win rate in ITC.

Edited March 5, 2023 by BLACK BLΠFLY

[BrainFireBob]

50 minutes ago, BLACK BLΠFLY said:

I just don’t believe players complained that long and an army list from the 5th edition codex had the highest win rate in ITC.

They absolutely did. Even on this forum.

 

Double lash worked, but people hated the codex for pushing a single "Chais build."

 

[Sword Brother Adelard]

People were still moaning about 3.5 when I came back to the hobby in 8th

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Back then I primarily played CSM all the way into sixth edition - the 3.5 codex was quite OP and the faction was bound to take a hit, it always happens such 5th edition GK and SW. I’m sure some people complained, like they do about everything (this is 40K right), but it wasn’t that big a deal as you’re making it out to be by my recollection.

[BrainFireBob]

Are you kidding? It absolutely was! Mods had to take action on the News and Rumors thread for the 4th AND 6th edition thread.

 

And I'm not arguing about whether a hit needed to happen- that's called a moving goalpost. I told you your imagined future where there's no Firstborn v Primaris chatter is deluded wishful thinking. Human nature doesn't work that way. The CSM codex was an example. 

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Well you’ve got your opinion and I’ve got mine. Neither of us are going to change the others’ mind so best to move on now.

[Captain Idaho]

Anyone who thinks there wouldn't be uproar that'll burn for years is kidding themselves! 

 

But the question isn't about whether there would be uproar, it's would there be an impact on sales? That's all GW cares about.

[Blindhamster]

my guess is, no, it wouldn't impact their sales overly much. Primaris have proven to continue to sell, and have plenty of fans. Frankly, us old timers aren't GWs target audience and haven't been for at least 15 years, in fact as an ex staffer, I distinctly remember how the old guard were often viewed as a problem:

new person comes in, asks about "cool models", staffer tries to talk about it, old guard player poo poos it, tells them not to get it etc. It was and probably still is a common problem.

 

The target audience has always been to get them hooked when they're just at high school age and keep them interested till they get a good enough job to finally fulfill their model desires withour relying on mum and dad, rinse and repeat.

[Evil Eye]

15 hours ago, BrainFireBob said:

You missed my point. It went on *bitterly* for what, 10 years? The very term "squatted" shows we're likely to hear about it endlessly

As someone who owns a copy of the 3.5e Chaos Codex, I'm still mad we have never since and will likely never again get a Codex of that level of depth, quality and customizability. That was an amazing book.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

The new CSM codex is really good.

[phandaal]

7 hours ago, Blindhamster said:

The target audience has always been to get them hooked when they're just at high school age and keep them interested till they get a good enough job to finally fulfill their model desires withour relying on mum and dad, rinse and repeat.

 

Someone has to pay the bills while GW waits a decade for that young teenager to get their good job. That being the case, what does GW sell those people until they hit their expiration date and become store-dwelling old grognards?

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Lots of people are introduced to the game after college. They have ample funds to purchase what they want. So there are other customer bases as well. I know many like this including myself.

[Blindhamster]

4 hours ago, phandaal said:

 

Someone has to pay the bills while GW waits a decade for that young teenager to get their good job. That being the case, what does GW sell those people until they hit their expiration date and become store-dwelling old grognards?

Tbh, I spent more in my teens than I have in years, excluding some large purchases like a thunderhawk. I worked in coffee shops from 15-20 and a huge portion of my wages went on Warhammer lol (oddly, I stopped buying as much once I got a job there as I stopped enjoying the hobby whilst doing it as a job) Don’t think they need to wait a decade generally, admittedly everything has gotten a lot more expensive!

 

regardless, long time players who don’t generally need to make regular purchases anymore are still not the target audience. There comes a point for many hobbyists when they end up being happy enough with their collections they only make occasional purchases, that doesn’t go for all “grognards” but certainly does for a lot. 

[Captain Idaho]

Yeah I've never bought the idea GW just wants kids. They want the kids hooked for the future, but the majority of their customers spending big money are not kids. Look at the Horus Heresy, it's an entire game system designed for older players and their cash.

 

GW wouldn't do that out of the kindness of their hearts or if it wasn't lucrative. They're a public trading company.

[Blindhamster]

Just speaking to the attitude managers had whilst I worked there 

[Captain Idaho]

Oh yeah, I imagine it's tough for a staffer to do their job when someone is buzzing in your ear and interrupting with their bias (obviously the staffer can be biased, but that's not the point)

[Tacitus]

On 3/5/2023 at 11:37 PM, Captain Idaho said:

Yeah I've never bought the idea GW just wants kids. They want the kids hooked for the future, but the majority of their customers spending big money are not kids. Look at the Horus Heresy, it's an entire game system designed for older players and their cash.

 

GW wouldn't do that out of the kindness of their hearts or if it wasn't lucrative. They're a public trading company.

I'd say the idea isn't that they JUST want kids.  The idea is that they don't want to exclude kids - especially by scaring their mothers. 

[Malakithe]

They want money. They probably dont care where its from. 

 

But in this current world theres no kid on this planet (under 18) that has that kind of throw away money unless they are children of the 1%. 

 

I took my kid with me to a GW store when i picked up some stuff and she grabbed a box and asked 'why is this tank $130?' and i answered 'thats a good question'.