Ultramarines after the January 2022 Balance Dataslate

[Captain Idaho]

Things have now changed somewhat with the balance datasheet, specifically cheap as chips selections and going back to Doctrines from the start.

 

So how do we feel about these changes?

 

For me cheaper Terminators, Tactical Marines and even things like Centurions are going to make things very much nicer for my army. Taking supporting characters like Apothecaries, Chapter Champions and cheaper characters in general is also something that'll help me a bunch.

 

And oddly enough, I actually like Armour of Contempt going. Sure it helped in some games for me but I've found the use of AP-1 weapons, including the benefit of Tactical Doctrine, diminished severely with its introduction. 

 

Speaking of Doctrines, I will really enjoy using Devastator Doctrine for 2 turns in a row now, then shifting to Tactical Doctrine turn 3 to better utilise my heavy weapons. Things like Predator Destructors are much more useful, as are Heavy Bolters, making Tactical squads even better.

[Prot]

Okay, is this a trick? What year are we talking about? Lol

 

Seriously though so many great discounts every marine army can talk about, but for me the UM have always had some of the better named characters so them coming down a bit is nice. Victrix guard becoming cheaper is just another reason to use the unique UM stuff. 
 

of all the discounts I still like Aggressors here because if the extra AP, and the Eradicators and Devs with super cheap upgrades with the Tactical doctrine look like winners. 

Edited January 6, 2023 by Prot

[Captain Idaho]

Yeah with the Doctrines going back to essentially permanent Tactical for us, Aggressors must be smiling!

 

The special characters being cheap is immensely useful as they're generally very good. I'd like to have seen 20pts or so off Guilliman to be honest though!

 

@Prot give us some insight into what sort of lists you're thinking could be good here? Actually, anyone else?

[Prot]

Yea, I agree about Guilliman (Abe went up 50 points!) but I honestly think Guilliman is getting a redo. There's no way they leave him at 300 unless something is in the works. (I still think he's an overpriced Vaul right now).

 

List wise I think UM falls into a shootier design with a minor focus on elite assault units. The Victrix are amazing as ever, the multirole stuff like Aggressors are just a great fit, and with Doctrines going back to being a touch more flexible, the UM lists with a focus on the Dev doctrine, and Tactical Doctrine might be my favourite.

 

Dev squads/Eradicators look even better now. The tanks may even feature now, with las discounts there's no reason to not look at that stuff now... even Pred's win a bit here. But the impact (I think) has to be in shooting. There's too many nasties in the CC department to lean too hard into it now... and World Eaters around the corner. 

 

For those specialized CC I like the Assault Intercessors with free hammer, Hammer/Shield Termies with their free options, and that company champion is amazing too.

[Captain Idaho]

By Company Champion you obviously mean the Chapter Champion specific to Ultramarines! 

 

We are blessed with some cheap counter charge characters, who can be taken without eating into our Elites allowance now which is handy. 

 

I too enjoy some of the more versatile choices in the army. Holding the centre with Terminators in Tactical Doctrine and being able to fight back in melee is a nice attribute, which seams like something Aggressors can do more or less.

 

I'm tempted by Centurions again. 2+ save and 4 wounds, with massed AP-1 thanks for Tactical Doctrine and then Heavy Bolters having 2 damage can be fiendish. They're even a candidate for Devastator Doctrine beyond turn 2 (AP-2 is great on Heavy Bolters).

[Prot]

I used to be a huge Centurion advocate, but I thought they went up? I was using 4 assault ones in other marine lists, but the Devs seemed over costed. I'll have to look into them (removing cover is always good too)

 

[Captain Idaho]

Devastator Centurions went back down to 70pts, which admittedly is only 15pts cheaper for the Heavy Bolter variant, but that's what they were previously and I got some usage out of them.

 

I think having some other big scary like Kratos on the table will help the unit last longer and fill in anti-tank capacity into the list.

 

The Lascannons and Missile Launchers being the same points basically means they're probably the more competitive choice in tournaments but I reckon I can get some mileage out of a unit of Heavy Bolters. 

Edited January 6, 2023 by Captain Idaho

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Spamming AP2 heavy bolters with AoC gone bye bye should be quite potent for sure. Guilliman can give them reroll 1s so I think they have a place.

[Kervin40k]

Working on an escalation league, first game is 500pts using the new pts, and I am running Calgar, 5 Infiltrators (w/ helix), 5 bolt riffle intercessors, and 5 boltstorm aggressors.  Before the points cut 640, now it is 500 even.  With so much dakka, I am feeling good about how things are looking for us.  We might just start doing mass bolters better than Imperial Fists.

[BrainFireBob]

Personally, I'm eyeing Chronus and an armoured column

[Captain Idaho]

I been thinking my Captain on a bike with Vengeance of Ultramar and a Thunder Hammer, using the Paragon of War Warlord Trait, has just received a massive boost.

 

Tactical Doctrine being potentially for longer granting more AP-1 and with Armour of Contempt being removed he can get more out of his AP (the Thunder Hammer is not just AP-1 anymore!) means he's a credible threat again.

[Prot]

I almost bought the Scions of Macragge box set with the discount to get the characters and restart the army. Then a pile of my friends gave me the biggest eye roll you've ever seen. lol

 

I didn't buy it but always love the Chapter/Legion. I think what really stopped me though was wanting to shoot less, and be more ... assaulty without feeling like a second fiddle to all the more aggressive chapters.  Being based on the Tactical chapter doesn't make that easy to resolve.

 

I think the Iron Hands are going to be really good now, and that's great, but it's not for me to just sit there and shoot. I really wish that this update would have sold me on the UM's again, and maybe it will, and I'm just not seeing it yet? Trying to keep an open mind but most lists I'm making are well suited to other chapters. The UM's still have great tricks though.

[greatcrusade08]

hey guys long time no see..

So i was reading the plague war books recenlty and really got into the defence of galatan, the novamarines have a cool colour scheme too.

I was thinking of puttng a small force together when this update dropped and boy do UMs look good now.

 

I was thinking all infantry first born only (Novamarines are mainly first born)? what would a decent list look like you think?

[Captain Idaho]

Yeah that would be good. And many of the Firstborn units are very competitive. 

 

Vanguard Veterans are great on the table, to which I think represents the mobile strike elements that a Chapter spread far and wide would likely have. And also represents the support role they had in the Badab War where they rushed to the aid of their allies. Bikers I think are fairly good as well.

 

They have a well maintained armoury apparently, so utilise a lot of Terminators. Lots of Relics such as Terminators, weapons like Centurions and vehicles and Dreadnoughts would represent this too.

 

And... welcome back brother. Make sure you open a painting thread AND a Tactical discussion thread for your army as well. 

Edited January 12, 2023 by Captain Idaho

[greatcrusade08]

4 minutes ago, Captain Idaho said:

 

 

And... welcome back brother. Make sure you open a painting thread AND a Tactical discussion thread for your army as well. 

Will do, may be a few weeks yet, im just finishing up my guard, thanks for the tips :)

Edited January 12, 2023 by greatcrusade08

[Kervin40k]

5 minutes ago, Captain Idaho said:

Yeah that would be good. And many of the Firstborn units are very competitive. 

 

Vanguard Veterans are great on the table, to which I think represents the mobile strike elements that a Chapter spread far and wide would likely have. And also represents the support role they had in the Badab War where they rushed to the aid of their allies. Bikers I think are fairly good as well.

 

They have a well maintained armoury apparently, so utilise a lot of Terminators. Lots of Relics such as Terminators, weapons like Centurions and vehicles and Dreadnoughts would represent this too.

 

And... welcome back brother. Make sure you open a painting thread AND a Tactical discussion thread for your army as well. 

I was also looking into a Firstborn army, but with more a Heresy era look to them.  Get a boost to both a 40k and 30k army.  

[Captain Idaho]

11 minutes ago, Kervin40k said:

I was also looking into a Firstborn army, but with more a Heresy era look to them.  Get a boost to both a 40k and 30k army.  

 

 that's exactly what I did. MK4 where possible, Relic Terminators, Contemptors and the like.

 

I then added some 40K elements for fun, variance and bit of competitive play occasionally. 

 

I got a Kratos too. 

[BrainFireBob]

Anyone consider a Dev skew? 6 Dev squads, combat squaded, sarge in one, cherub in the other, as an 8th company force? Move and shoot without penalty.

[Captain Idaho]

Isn't the rule of three still in force? I've not checked because I just made a presumption on it.

[Emperor Ming]

2 hours ago, Captain Idaho said:

Isn't the rule of three still in force? I've not checked because I just made a presumption on it.

Yep still a thing

[Captain Idaho]

3 Devastator squads and 3 Centurion squads would fit that bill though.

[jpwyrm]

Don't forget to add three Sternguard squads for 6 additionnal Heavy Weapons (and 9 combis) for a very cheap price tag. 

[Lemondish]

12 minutes ago, jpwyrm said:

Don't forget to add three Sternguard squads for 6 additionnal Heavy Weapons (and 9 combis) for a very cheap price tag. 

My mk X Primaris Sternguard project just got so much bigger...

[Captain Idaho]

Pics or it didn't happen...!

 

****

 

Anyway it's been pointed out elsewhere that the Combat Doctrine rules now no longer have restrictions on stacking benefits to the AP value.

 

Tactical Expertise has gotten a little more beneficial especially alongside the Storm of Fire Warlord Trait.

 

Whether it is outside the realms of cost effective is unclear and I'll use the combination on 10 Terminators in my next game I think.

[Tacitus]

I also think the Sticky Capping boost has gone under the radar.  One Phobos Troop unit can now cap multiple deep field objectives at the same time.   My old lists usually revolved around a few troops choices, and some Gravis/Bladeguard (5 Aggressors, 5 Bladeguard, 5 Eradicators, an Apothecary, and an Ancient, Tiggy, and a Chaplain with buffs handing out rerolls, healing, ObSec, etc) entourage for Guilliman.   I'm now toying with replacing the eradicators with a 5 man PHOBOS troops choice to sticky cap what Guilliman and his entourage frees up.  Meanwhile the 5 Incursors can run around in the deep field sticky capping empty objectives.  With the points drop I've been able to afford two Stormstrikes (1 Hailstrike, 1 Hammerstrike) and 2 Gladiators (1 Reaper, 1 Valiant).  I'm not sold on the Vailiant, but between the four of them, they can threaten flanks to protect Guilliman or race out to the Deep Field to support the Incursors.